Rival watch

[The RDBD]

Having read the context I have to be fair to Diego and agree that he has a point.
Kane wouldn't fit into this Utd team. They're ****ing **** and he's not.
I assume that's what he means.

And this : https://www.not606.com/threads/summer-transfers.404663/page-40#post-16748784

And yet, on the "season compass" Spurs have scored
four more goals to date than without Kane.

I guess we are seeing "Spurs the one man team" 2.0
(or is that the Son man team - isn't that his brother ?? ) .

 

[Roo]

I think I’d have preferred a draw last night but a Utd win was also decent - providing we get a result ourselves.

Brighton may be without Mitoma which could be huge but I think a lot will depend on us at the back with regards to Romero’s fitness. If he’s fit I think our chances of a positive result is decent, if we have to endure Dier/ Emerson at CB then I can see Brighton knocking a few past us.

Romero’s out for 4-5 weeks.

 

[Dier Hard]

Romero’s out for 4-5 weeks.

We’re ****ed then, frankly.

 

[Citizen Kane.]

Romero’s out for 4-5 weeks.

We're cursed.

It's because of how we sacked BMJ. I know it is. We're just not allowed to be happy.

 

[Treble]

When you look at what managers like Ange, Good Ebening, Iraola and O'Neil have done in a fraction of the time and with a fraction of the budget, it beggars belief that he is still in the dugout. But...

Long may he stay there

You mean like get to two cup finals, win a trophy, get to a quarter final in Europe, as well as finish 3rd all in his first season? Have they? I must've missed that.

 

[BrunelGunner]

You mean like get to two cup finals, win a trophy, get to a quarter final in Europe, as well as finish 3rd all in his first season? Have they? I must've missed that.

Ten Hag did a very good job last season (all things considered) for the reasons you've outlined above. Though getting to a quarter-final of a second-tier European competition only to be knocked out by a mediocre Sevilla side isn't a flex, so you could have left that out.

But this season, he's warranted the majority of criticism thrown his way. Obviously it's not all his own doing and injuries/off pitch matters have exacerbated things. However, in terms of his team selection, substitutions, in-game management, style of play and questionable tactics, as well as his handling of certain individual players, I think he's done a less than ideal job.

I actually do think he's a good manager, but I'm not yet fully convinced he's up to the task required to overhaul Man Utd.

Let's see if anything materially changes now that INEOS have a say in matters.

 

[Treble]

Ten Hag did a very good job last season (all things considered) for the reasons you've outlined above. Though getting to a quarter-final of a second-tier European competition only to be knocked out by a mediocre Sevilla side isn't a flex, so you could have left that out.

But this season, he's warranted the majority of criticism thrown his way. Obviously it's not all his own doing and injuries/off pitch matters have exacerbated things. However, in terms of his team selection, substitutions, in-game management, style of play and questionable tactics, as well as his handling of certain individual players, I think he's done a less than ideal job.

I actually do think he's a good manager, but I'm not yet fully convinced he's up to the job that's required to overhaul Man Utd.

I think that's a fair assessment.

However, I included the Europy for a number of reasons, not least of which because it wasn't a competition in isolation. By the time we played that quarter final we'd played more games than any other club in Europe because we were in all 4 (including achieving top 4 as one). We'd also beaten Barcelona along the way. It was the injury to Martinez and Eriksen which done for us against Sevilla unfortunately.

 

[BrunelGunner]

However, I included the Europy for a number of reasons, not least of which because it wasn't a competition in isolation. By the time we played that quarter final we'd played more games than any other club in Europe because we were in all 4 (including achieving top 4 as one). We'd also beaten Barcelona along the way. It was the injury to Martinez and Eriksen which done for us against Sevilla unfortunately.

The Martinez and Eriksen injuries were huge blows, no doubt, but Sevilla were 13th or 14th in their domestic league at the time when you played them. Even if you factor in those injuries, you had the personnel and the quality to overcome Sevilla over two legs. You threw away a 2-0 lead at Old Trafford to draw and then got battered in the return leg.

So I think his results in Europe definitely should be criticised more than they should be lauded. Let's be honest, both Arsenal and Man United were among the very favourites to get to the final of the Europa last season and we both underperformed.

 

[Treble]

The Martinez and Eriksen injuries were huge blows, no doubt, but Sevilla were 13th or 14th in their domestic league at the time when you played them. Even if you factor in those injuries, you had the personnel and the quality to overcome Sevilla over two legs. You threw away a 2-0 lead at Old Trafford to draw and then got battered in the return leg.

So I think his results in Europe definitely should be criticised more than they should be lauded. Let's be honest, both Arsenal and Man United were among the very favourites to get to the final of the Europa last season and we both underperformed.

They won the competition tbf beating Juve and Jose's Roma. They love that bloody cup comp. On its own it was an under achievement and hugely disappointing but for his first season it still is part of an overall good performance as a new manager.

 

[Citizen Kane.]

You mean like get to two cup finals, win a trophy, get to a quarter final in Europe, as well as finish 3rd all in his first season? Have they? I must've missed that.

It's relative though. A club of United's size and the money Ten Hag has been given to spend should produce much more than what you've described, forget demanding similar from the likes of Bournemouth and Wolves. For example, I would say that West Ham had a (relatively speaking) more successful season than you did, especially considering how pointless your top 4 finish ended up being.

And as well as you did last season, you've visibly gone backwards this season and have made another batch of unconvincing signings to do so - Mount, Onana, Amrabat and Hojlund were all puzzlers for different reasons.

There is also the puzzle of how the football you play bears little resemblance to the way his Ajax teams played, which could indicate that the PL is far harder than he thought it would be and he has adapted to compensate rather than sticking to his true philosophy.

 

[Treble]

It's relative though. A club of United's size and the money Ten Hag has been given to spend should produce much more than what you've described, forget demanding similar from the likes of Bournemouth and Wolves. For example, I would say that West Ham had a (relatively speaking) more successful season than you did, especially considering how pointless your top 4 finish ended up being.

And as well as you did last season, you've visibly gone backwards this season and have made another batch of unconvincing signings to do so - Mount, Onana, Amrabat and Hojlund were all puzzlers for different reasons.

There is also the puzzle of how the football you play bears little resemblance to the way his Ajax teams played, which could indicate that the PL is far harder than he thought it would be and he has adapted to compensate rather than sticking to his true philosophy.

I merely responded to your post about Ange, Unai, Iraola and O'Neil doing more in a fraction of the time.

I'm more than happy with what he achieved in his first season and I dare say you would be too. To say any of those 4 you mentioned have achieved more in a fraction of the time is patently wrong.

 

[Citizen Kane.]

I merely responded to your post about Ange, Unai, Iraola and O'Neil doing more in a fraction of the time.

I'm more than happy with what he achieved in his first season and I dare say you would be too. To say any of those 4 you mentioned have achieved more in a fraction of the time is patently wrong.

I agree, he did very well last season and handled the whole Ronaldo hissy fit with a firm but fair hand.

But you seem to have gone backwards this season, while I can't see how any of your summer signings have done anything other than unwittingly aid that reverse.

 

[Treble]

I agree, he did very well last season and handled the whole Ronaldo hissy fit with a firm but fair hand.

But you seem to have gone backwards this season, while I can't see how any of your summer signings have done anything other than unwittingly aid that reverse.

Yeh I agree we have. There are a number of factors there. Some will be considered excuses such as injuries to the spine of the team, others are a much more deep-seated problem which have accumulated over several years and will take time (certainly more than one season) to put right.

With regards to the signings I really think he gets a raw deal from those who don't really understand what's going on inside the club, usually the media, who then create the narrative and everyone then believes it because no one outside the club is going to bother looking into so it becomes the "truth". The OP below explains it far better...

https://www.not606.com/threads/john-murtough-dof-job-for-the-boys.409497/

 

[littleDinosaurLuke]

Utd’s problems have been masked again by rare moments of individual excellence and the team rolling up its collective sleeves for half a game against opponents who wilted under pressure, particularly when Garnacho was allowed to run at them.

The reality is that team has no identity or style of play, there are many changes of personnel from game to game, with players often playing out of position or in roles not best suited to them. The midfield is always dominated by the opposition, the defenders and goalkeeper are all prone to making errors and they don’t create many chances or score enough goals. There are some talented individuals, but some are past their best, while others are not able to produce their best regularly in a dysfunctional team or are not being coached properly. The effect is that the players seem demotivated most of the time; the commitment and effort shown on the second half last night is not typical. The players gained confidence from Villa shrinking and retreating , so they were able to overpower them; had Villa stood firm, I suspect they would have reverted to type quickly and lost the game.

I think a better manager could get a lot more out of these players.

Also the club’s recruitment recently has been woeful. Too much is paid for average or unproven players. Hojlund woukd have been a great signing if the club had paid £30-40M and he had spent a season learning under someone like Kane. Utd shouldn’t have gone for Amrabat and Mount but spent that money (c £130M) on getting Rice to the club. Top players set the standards and bring on those around them. Utd don’t have any. Fernandes can be excellent, but he is the type to strop and sulk when the team is under the pressure.

 

[Treble]

We've had manager after manager after manager after manager, playing with a mishmash squad of players who have been accumulated over each and every one of those managers because the club has no structured approach to recruitment so the responsibility literally gets palmed off onto each manager before they eventually get sacked.

It's therefore no surprise we have a dysfunctional team with some players who are good, some past their best, and some who simply don't fit the manager's approach at the time.

We can keep blaming the manager, but until we change the underlying problem and actually set up a proper Chief Exec and Director of Football who are football men, have a clue in terms of the football side of the club rather than the commercial, things won't improve even if we stuck Carlo Ancelotti in there.

One thing Ten Hag has done right over the past 3/4 games is picking and sticking with his players, and those from before he can trust. Although our results have been inconsistent, the performance in the past 3 games show those players are putting in the effort and playing for him. The rest should be got rid of.

 

[remembercolinlee]

Haag needs time and a decent recruitment policy. United recruitment has been worse than ours (although they can afford it).

 

[Dier Hard]

Haag needs time and a decent recruitment policy. United recruitment has been worse than ours (although they can afford it).

Debatable now, mate.

I'm pretty sure they're not doing too great at the moment (though Luke and Trebs might be able to shed more light), hence why the Amrabat deal took so long as they couldn't afford to buy him in the summer despite "only" being valued at around £30m, so they finally managed to agree a high loan fee of circa £10m with a £20m purchase option next summer, whether they take that option now though is hard to tell as Amrabat's been terrible so far (unless it was an obligation, which'll be funny, lol).

 

[humanbeingincroydon]

Debatable now, mate.

I'm pretty sure they're not doing too great at the moment (though Luke and Trebs might be able to shed more light), hence why the Amrabat deal took so long as they couldn't afford to buy him in the summer despite "only" being valued at around £30m, so they finally managed to agree a high loan fee of circa £10m with a £20m purchase option next summer, whether they take that option now though is hard to tell as Amrabat's been terrible so far (unless it was an obligation, which'll be funny, lol).

Making a complete mockery out of, what, three consecutive transfer windows of ours?

 

[Dier Hard]

Making a complete mockery out of, what, three consecutive transfer windows of ours?

Certainly a bullet dodged based on what we've seen so far. No wonder Don Fabio never pulled the trigger when we could've signed him for about £12m a couple years back.

 

[Treble]

Debatable now, mate.

I'm pretty sure they're not doing too great at the moment (though Luke and Trebs might be able to shed more light), hence why the Amrabat deal took so long as they couldn't afford to buy him in the summer despite "only" being valued at around £30m, so they finally managed to agree a high loan fee of circa £10m with a £20m purchase option next summer, whether they take that option now though is hard to tell as Amrabat's been terrible so far (unless it was an obligation, which'll be funny, lol).

It's hard to say and tbh it's been so long now I've kinda forgotten. I don't remember it as being a money problem, more the fact that there had been a limit imposed on the spending by the heirarchy - whether that was the Glazers or Arnold I don't know. So when we couldn't sell ****e like McTominay, VdB and Sancho to balance the budget, then that affected how much they were willing to release for Amrabat. All midfielders as well so maybe that made them cautious as well.

On Amrabat btw he's blown hot and cold and I'm not convinced either. Maybe he's decent in Serie A and the PL is too much for him? What I would like though is to see him play with Mainoo. Anyone who plays next to McTominay in midfield - whether that's Mainoo or Amrabat is on a hiding to nothing because they're usually left to fend for themselves. So yeh when we're looking to play a more defensive midfield, then for once I'd like to see Amrabat and Mainoo together.

Having said that, I then ask the question what if he doesn't have Mainoo or Casemiro next to him, can Amrabat hold the midfield next to Eriksen or Mount? I'm not convinced. In a way maybe the loan has helped us out.