A lot of people on my train heading for the march. Well, they could be going to the Lord Mayor's show I suppose, but probably not. Amongst them a mother with three young children, the eldest of whom was probably about eight. He was decked out in a Palestinian flag and looked excited, as if he was going to his first football match. This feels wrong. I hope they don't encounter any of Suella's lads, out to protect British values.
The thing is Goldie - to say you are Pro Palestine could mean a number of things. if someone just says they want an end to the killing and an end to the illegal occupations, and eventually a two state solution then they are not only Pro Palestine but, ultimately, Pro Israel as well. If they are ''From the river to the sea'' fanatics then ask the question of what should happen to the 7 Million Jews currently in the area then you will know by their answer whether you can support them or not. I suspect that the majority of those at the demo belong to the first group. Nearly all demos include unsavoury groups ( eg.those against the Covid lockdowns) but does this discredit all those who are there ? Unfortunately the media very often picks out those selective clips which they know will discredit a whole idea - they did this during anti Iraq war demos as well.
Honestly think most of them don’t even know why they’re there. It’s a day out supporting a team for people who don’t like football. US Embassy away.
So Braverman's far-right thugs successfully defended the Cenotaph against the non-existent threat from pro-Palestinian marchers. Well done lads.
Very few people fully understand the complexity of the situation I agree. I certainly don't, and I am making every attempt to learn at least the history But a lot of families were there simply to protest at the bombing and murder of civilians.....on both sides
I appreciate you doing that and you’ll know you’re in a minority by trying to learn a bit. I’m not sure many there were on both sides but if you were there I’ll take your word for it.
That's fair comment, Cologne. And to be fair, the march was mostly peaceful. I guess my concern is that the unsavoury group you speak of could be dangerous - to Jewish people and the public in general. You can't support Hamas and the unspeakable acts it committed in early October, without being a radical. We know in the past that angry Islamic extremists don't just limit their actions to hate speech.
OK. but you can't support the concept of collective punishment ie. taking out Hamas by battering a whole country into submission, and, in the process sending over 4,000 children to an early grave and accepting that as human collateral, without also being a radical. But of course Zionist radicalism is of immediate danger only to those in the middle east.
Nor can Israel desist from pursuing Hamas, that has promised more attacks like those on October 7. The West's position, that while there must be humanitarian pauses to help the populace of Gaza, it cannot be a permanent ceasefire, is entirely reasonable imo. The evil player in all this is Hamas, whose leaders and followers are content to kill moderate Palestinian leaders and have a sociopathic indifference to the suffering of Palestinians in Gaza by positioning military installations in schools, hospitals etc Anyone in the UK supporting of Hamas in any way, on a march, rally or otherwise, should be arrested and prosecuted under the appropriate criminal common law or statute.
I cannot accept the notion of Hamas as being the only evil player in the region Goldie - they did not form themselves in a vacuum but against a background of 70 years of illegal occupation and apartheid in what was once Arab territory. Also noted is that Palestinian movements which were secular, and accepted negotiation towards a two state solution, also had no success. Yassar Arafat accepted a two state solution, and was not a religious radical yet the Israelis spent the entire time trying to assassinate him. Israel is going way beyond what is acceptable in self defence - the use of phosphorous bombs, targetting of schools, hospitals, bakeries, water sanitation centres, churches, mosques etc. They have destroyed over 40% of all residential units in North Gaza - is this because Hamas were hiding in them ? Were Hamas maybe hiding up the trouser legs of over 4,000 children ? Any other leader who did this would have an international arrest warrant out on him but because it is Israel and we all have a fear of being called Anti Semitic (it must be clear that Anti Semitism and Anti Zionism are two different things - even some Jews are Anti Zionist) we say and do nothing.
All I can say is, the only solution to the problem is Two State. Hamas will never accept that and is sworn to Israel's destruction. I certainly have no love for Netanyahu and his hard right government, but in the face of that, what would any Israeli government do? There can be no peace talks while Hamas has power.
If you have the time and the inclination, start listening to some of these podcasts https://twitter.com/MHconflicted A deep dive in to the history of the middle east - season 3 especially interesting for some background as to why we are we are now And this episode questioning what were Hamas thinking when they started this latest conflict... Someone was a bit excited about this ...
