1. Log in now to remove adverts - no adverts at all to registered members!

Progress under LR

Discussion in 'Hull City' started by Howdentiger2, Oct 24, 2023.

  1. NewcastleTiger

    NewcastleTiger Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2022
    Messages:
    7,511
    Likes Received:
    9,231
    It’s a trend with possession based sides. Was a good stat about possession teams and how they aren’t performing at a sustainable level to achieve results.
    https://x.com/louorns/status/1721548511005536406?s=46
     
    #381
    Tigerboy98 and Howdentiger2 like this.
  2. PLT

    PLT Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2011
    Messages:
    27,050
    Likes Received:
    17,944
    I've seen that graph a few times now and I still have no idea what "direct speed" means. Clearly it's a measure of something but I'm not convinced anyone reading it actually knows what.

    The absolutely crucial thing with stats is to understand exactly what they're representing and not make assumptions about what it means. He's also talking about xG there, which I think is a useful measure to some extent, but its key flaw is that it can only count shots, so if you're in a great position but don't get a shot off then it's not counting towards your xG. So Philogene against Preston through 1-on-1 didn't count towards our xG. And this has been our key weakness this season, not missing shots from good positions particularly but failing to get shots off from good positions. Until we stop doing that so much, xG is always going to look like we've had less chances than we have.
     
    #382
    SydneyTiger14 likes this.
  3. rovertiger

    rovertiger Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2011
    Messages:
    16,779
    Likes Received:
    20,847
    Do you want him to lose his looks John?
    Poor buggers turning into Quasimodo on the wing, what'll happen in the thick of it?
     
    #383
  4. NewcastleTiger

    NewcastleTiger Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2022
    Messages:
    7,511
    Likes Received:
    9,231
    I guess it’s just how long it takes you to cross the half way line. Ultimately at this level without money, you’ll not see yourself at the top end playing this style IMO. Need to blend it, Ipswich are a perfect example
     
    #384
  5. SydneyTiger14

    SydneyTiger14 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2013
    Messages:
    25,849
    Likes Received:
    14,421
    .
     
    #385
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2023
  6. PLT

    PLT Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2011
    Messages:
    27,050
    Likes Received:
    17,944
    I'm not convinced anyone quoting Ipswich as an example really knows what they're doing that well to be honest. They beat us comfortably by taking half chances from outside the area, that was the real difference on the night, and this board went into overdrive praising their style of play. Pretty sure they play a similar style to us but are just much better in the final third, where we let ourselves down most games.
     
    #386
  7. Howdentiger2

    Howdentiger2 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2019
    Messages:
    10,224
    Likes Received:
    21,632
    Let's not forget ( at that point ) how pedestrian we were, how slow our tempo was and over cautious we were. Ipswich showed Rosie how to play Rosie ball and fortunately it made him make changes
     
    #387
    highpeak tiger likes this.
  8. Benjo

    Benjo Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2011
    Messages:
    2,328
    Likes Received:
    3,242
    Their attacking phases went from back to forwards at thunderous speed compared to how we've generally played. They were much better in the final third because of confidence, being used to playing at that tempo and also the sheer space they had available in playing that way. We've adapted since that game specifically and increased our tempo and directness somewhat but it's still a work in progress and now the finishing just needs working on.

    Far easier for attacking players to do more damage when they've got one or two backtracking opposition players to think about as opposed to four or five facing them.
     
    #388
    Howdentiger2 likes this.
  9. Tigerboy98

    Tigerboy98 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2020
    Messages:
    1,750
    Likes Received:
    2,309
    I think if we accept that promotion wont be happening this season you’ll enjoy the season a lot more

    I’ve realised the reason I was getting so pissed off with performances and results is because promotion seemed very possible and it felt like we were wasting our opportunities but I can see we’re not good enough right now and that’s fine, we are improving slowly I’m certain we’ll get there in the next few years
     
    #389
  10. Mckechnie Orange

    Mckechnie Orange Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2014
    Messages:
    13,907
    Likes Received:
    10,645
    Confidence, familiarity and 2 1/2 years of relative stability.
     
    #390
    What? A full dog? likes this.

  11. SydneyTiger14

    SydneyTiger14 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2013
    Messages:
    25,849
    Likes Received:
    14,421
    Have said this for a few weeks, this is a key developmental season for us, and making the top 6 is a bonus. It's next season we need to be gunning for it. I think a lot of the frustration, as you say, is borne out of expecting top 6 this year.
     
    #391
    Tigerboy98 likes this.
  12. Howdentiger2

    Howdentiger2 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2019
    Messages:
    10,224
    Likes Received:
    21,632
    Unfortunately others are and will continue to improve, how much more ££ can we continue to spend?, the gulf financially between teams coming down from the prem and us will get bigger each season, the inconvenience of loans means we'll always be losing certain players each season and having to replace them with potentially another gamble the following season, players like philogene won't be here long term if they continue to improve and we don't go up etc etc.

    we need to go up ASAP (if that's the aim) and does acun have the patience for potentially no promotion for 1/2/3yrs?
     
    #392
  13. Mckechnie Orange

    Mckechnie Orange Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2014
    Messages:
    13,907
    Likes Received:
    10,645
    Most of this board wasn't expecting top 6 in August. The owner has been consistent throughout that top 10 is the expectation but top 6 being a 'possibility' . There's nothing at the moment to suggest he'll not meet that expectation, hence new contract to stop others poaching him so easily.

    But those top 6 expectations came from where exactly? Signing Twine and Jaden? Ozan bagging a few?

    'Playoff push' never meant top 6 minimum, and I reiterate the consensus amongst many here was that we were no where near it.
     
    #393
  14. SydneyTiger14

    SydneyTiger14 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2013
    Messages:
    25,849
    Likes Received:
    14,421
    I'm not convinced if (and it looks likely) Sheff Utd and Luton are two of the teams coming down that the financial gulf will significantly increase, and then you have to consider teams like Norwich, Watford, WBA whose parachute payments will now have finished, meaning it's really only whoever of Southampton and Leeds who don't go up this season that would have a fair bit of pulling power next season. I think next season looks pretty open for a couple of non-relegated clubs to go up.

    If players like Philogene go, we'll pull in a substantial fee for him which in turn can allow us to bring in multiple other players. It's where getting a few young signings right can be quite powerful as they become multipliers - a Philogene turns into two promising players for instance.
     
    #394
  15. Mckechnie Orange

    Mckechnie Orange Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2014
    Messages:
    13,907
    Likes Received:
    10,645
    You have to remember, there are a few non parachute clubs also who can sustain a bigger budget than we under FFP.

    We either need to increase revenue or overachieve to get promoted either way.

    We've done it before, other sides have but there's usually that stability in approach and player familiarity over a number of seasons behind it in most cases - when it does happen.
     
    #395
  16. Tigerboy98

    Tigerboy98 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2020
    Messages:
    1,750
    Likes Received:
    2,309
    Completely agree about the financial differences with the parachute clubs, Acun has also complained about this too but the fact is we’re just not good enough right now

    I do think our finances will improve even further as time goes on with higher attendances, more sponsors, more commercial revenue, and overall more investments.

    Losing key players will be **** yes but money will be reinvested, a big positive is there should be a conveyer belt of talent coming in due to our scouting which in turn will increase our budget continuously

    I do agree that it needs to be sooner rather than later but I think league one to premier league within 5 years wouldn’t be too shabby!
     
    #396
  17. NewcastleTiger

    NewcastleTiger Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2022
    Messages:
    7,511
    Likes Received:
    9,231
    Nope they don’t at all. We play slow possession football, they play fast paced expansive football. We are at opposite ends of that graph.
     
    #397
    Howdentiger2 likes this.
  18. dennisboothstash

    dennisboothstash Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2011
    Messages:
    23,289
    Likes Received:
    37,908
    Similarly I was getting pissed off because I thought promotion might be possible.
    As soon as I realised we’re not good enough for promotion to that ‘fan as a consumer’, clubs owned by entire countries, VAR strewn, cess pit I got much more relaxed…
     
    #398
    Tigerboy98 and SydneyTiger14 like this.
  19. Mckechnie Orange

    Mckechnie Orange Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2014
    Messages:
    13,907
    Likes Received:
    10,645
    Oh it still 'might' be 'possible'.

    Those being the operative words...

    Expectation though? Really?
     
    #399
  20. dennisboothstash

    dennisboothstash Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2011
    Messages:
    23,289
    Likes Received:
    37,908
    What?
    I’ve had a drink so may have missed something but as far as I can see I member mentioned expectation

    So…**** off
     
    #400

Share This Page