Transfer Rumours Let's ignore the big ****ing elephant and blame the latest manager, again. Are we nearly there yet?

[Chief]

Casemiro isn't a defensive player in any (person who gets it) book. He just isn't.

Last year, he played alongside Fred, Eriksen and, sometimes, Scott McTominay.

This season, Fred has been sold, Eriksen has aged badly and McTominay hasn't got much of a game.

His actual partner should be Amarabat, but he's been filling in at left back.

Surely people get this? No?

Or does Casemiro just get blamed for not carrying out his 'defensive' duties?

Put Amarabat alongside him and he'll be back in business. In the meantime, probably good he gets a break.


Mount or McTominay can play there instead.

 

[Chief]

That is a great article. Our defensive midfield setup has been found lacking this season.

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That jumps out from that article. We are pressing higher up the field which is by design - ETH’s system. But ironically, we have struggled for goals.

Oh yeah, right.

Stats and that.

 

[cytrax]

Casemiro isn't a defensive player in any (person who gets it) book. He just isn't.

Last year, he played alongside Fred, Eriksen and, sometimes, Scott McTominay.

This season, Fred has been sold, Eriksen has aged badly and McTominay hasn't got much of a game.

His actual partner should be Amarabat, but he's been filling in at left back.

Surely people get this? No?

Or does Casemiro just get blamed for not carrying out his 'defensive' duties?

Put Amarabat alongside him and he'll be back in business. In the meantime, probably good he gets a break.


Mount or McTominay can play there instead.

Really?!

Casemiro sent a message through his agent last year just as he signed up that he would sort out our defensive frailties in the midfield after he saw one of the games. According to the statistics, he did a great job of it last year too.

So, how exactly is Casemiro not a defensive midfielder? Or maybe he’s simply refusing to carry out his defensive duties which is equally criminal.

Oh yeah, here is from Casemiro’s wiki page which I’m sure he’ll agree with:
Carlos Henrique Casimiro (born 23 February 1992), known as Casemiro,[4] is a Brazilian professional footballer who plays as a defensive midfielder for Premier League club Manchester United and captainsthe Brazil national team. He is known for his defensive abilities, ball-winning skills, and tackling. Casemiro is widely regarded as one of the best defensive midfielders of his generation.

 

[Chief]

Yet scores all those goals and stuff.

Ask anyone at Real Madrid whether he was a defensive player. Or indeed, anyone but Wiki.

I'll give you he's what is termed a 'holding' midfielder, but a defender he is not.

Out of interest, was Michael Carrick defensive?

 

[cytrax]

Yet scores all those goals and stuff.

Ask anyone at Real Madrid whether he was a defensive player. Or indeed, anyone but Wiki.

I'll give you he's what is termed a 'holding' midfielder, but a defender he is not.

Out of interest, was Michael Carrick defensive?

Then I guess a defender that scores goals ain’t a defender.

He’s a defensive midfielder which is analogous to a holding midfielder.

 

[Diego]

Really?!

Casemiro sent a message through his agent last year just as he signed up that he would sort out our defensive frailties in the midfield after he saw one of the games. According to the statistics, he did a great job of it last year too.

So, how exactly is Casemiro not a defensive midfielder? Or maybe he’s simply refusing to carry out his defensive duties which is equally criminal.

Oh yeah, here is from Casemiro’s wiki page which I’m sure he’ll agree with:
Carlos Henrique Casimiro (born 23 February 1992), known as Casemiro,[4] is a Brazilian professional footballer who plays as a defensive midfielder for Premier League club Manchester United and captainsthe Brazil national team. He is known for his defensive abilities, ball-winning skills, and tackling. Casemiro is widely regarded as one of the best defensive midfielders of his generation.

Just been on Wiki and put it right (you do know Wiki isn't gospel and can be changed at will)

I would put Casimero in more of the Carrik mould, not a true DM but more of a great reader of the game winning the ball back by being in the right place to intercept or taking the ball off players rather than tackling them. Both also had/have great vision and pick out (and execute) the right pass more often than most.

 

[Diego]

Yet scores all those goals and stuff.

Ask anyone at Real Madrid whether he was a defensive player. Or indeed, anyone but Wiki.

I'll give you he's what is termed a 'holding' midfielder, but a defender he is not.

Out of interest, was Michael Carrick defensive?

I started typing straight after Cytrax post and then got caught up in a watsap family thread and ended up posting a similar thing 13 mins after you

 

[Chief]

I started typing straight after Cytrax post and then got caught up in a watsap family thread and ended up posting a similar thing 13 mins after you

As it goes, nor was Roy Keane ever a defensive midfielder.

May as well say Paul Scholes was, because he used to tackle (badly), just like Casemiro does!

Utter pigeonholeing bollocks by people not actually watching.

 

[cytrax]

As it goes, nor was Roy Keane ever a defensive midfielder.

May as well say Paul Scholes was, because he used to tackle (badly), just like Casemiro does!

Utter pigeonholeing bollocks by people not actually watching.

You're right! Roy Keane was a forward! He was so good in the 18 and playing right behind the striker.

Somehow, you are suggesting that your characterization is far more informed than that of Sky Sports analysis, which is supported by data to point to the fact that Casemiro is effectively a defensive midfielder. Notwithstanding that, the man characterizes himself as such. He breaks up play, protects defenders, and then finds spaces to progress the play forward... these are the qualities that he prides himself upon. His defensive duties in the middle of the park represent a large chunk of his responsibilities.

What are you being pugnacious about?

 

[Chief]

You're right! Roy Keane was a forward! He was so good in the 18 and playing right behind the striker.

if you genuinely think Roy Keane was a defensive player you're watching the wrong thing.

In any case, Casemiro isn't a defensive midfielder. I don’t care what Wikipedia says. He's not even a good tackler.

He's not a Makalele, he's not a Kante. That job is Amrabat's.

As it goes, nor was Fred, or McTominay. Amarabat is the first time in ages we've had an actual one, probably ever.

Matic when he became immobile maybe?

 

[glazerfodder]

Last night I watched (again) the MUTV documentary charting the '99 treble. How incredible were we, what fantastic, dynamic football we played, what talents we had in the squad, what style and swagger we had - and what a ****ing boss. Just reminds you how far we have fallen, and how simple it is to be successful provided you have all the right pieces to the puzzle.

 

[Chief]

Last night I watched (again) the MUTV documentary charting the '99 treble. How incredible were we, what fantastic, dynamic football we played, what talents we had in the squad, what style and swagger we had - and what a ****ing boss. Just reminds you how far we have fallen, and how simple it is to be successful provided you have all the right pieces to the puzzle.

4 4 2 as well. Always.

Amazing how football has 'evolved' so much since, that this is completely out moded now.

It's all pressing and overloads, single striker and a 10. (and defensive midfielders )

Not sure it's any better on the eye to be perfectly honest.

 

[Chief]

Last night I watched (again) the MUTV documentary charting the '99 treble. How incredible were we, what fantastic, dynamic football we played, what talents we had in the squad, what style and swagger we had - and what a ****ing boss. Just reminds you how far we have fallen, and how simple it is to be successful provided you have all the right pieces to the puzzle.

You should watch the Beckham series btw, if you haven't already.

A great insight into that era, plus a bit beyond.

 

[glazerfodder]

4 4 2 as well. Always.

Amazing how football has 'evolved' so much since, that this is completely out moded now.

It's all pressing and overloads, single striker and a 10. (and defensive midfielders )

Not sure it's any better on the eye to be perfectly honest.

I don't know why, but 4-4-2 seems to have immense logic to it. How any of the modern 'diamonds', or any other configurations better it is beyond me - what more do you need, a solid bank of defenders, a dynamic midfield and world class strikers - oh what would we pay for Yorkie and Cole now.

And Fergie - Never give in is a great watch too.

 

[TheBear]

It's hard to understand United at the moment.

As an Arsenal fan - I thought ETH was going down a similar route to Arteta.

In that he couldn't play the way he wanted at first because he didn't the the correct 'type' of player. But now that he's spent 400-500m the football hasn't gotten more expansive at all - Its all REALLY weird.

Surely Onana was brought in to play out from the back? Martinez as well. And then when you brought in Eriksen and Sabitzer it looked like it was only a matter of time before you guys started playing more offensive football. But that just hasn't happened.

 

[glazerfodder]

It's hard to understand United at the moment.

As an Arsenal fan - I thought ETH was going down a similar route to Arteta.

In that he couldn't play the way he wanted at first because he didn't the the correct 'type' of player. But now that he's spent 400-500m the football hasn't gotten more expansive at all - Its all REALLY weird.

Surely Onana was brought in to play out from the back? Martinez as well. And then when you brought in Eriksen and Sabitzer it looked like it was only a matter of time before you guys started playing more offensive football. But that just hasn't happened.

Martinez and Shaw have been two massive losses for us, Martinez offered our defence and our keeper solidity and confidence while Shaw has proved to be a phenomenal provider down our left hand side and his absence affects both Rashford and Garnacho whenever they play, particularly Rashford who can't be arsed to venture back into his own half to help develop an attack. Those two, more than any other injury problems have impacted our progression considerably.

 

[TheBear]

Martinez and Shaw have been two massive losses for us, Martinez offered our defence and our keeper solidity and confidence while Shaw has proved to be a phenomenal provider down our left hand side and his absence affects both Rashford and Garnacho whenever they play, particularly Rashford who can't be arsed to venture back into his own half to help develop an attack. Those two, more than any other injury problems have impacted our progression considerably.

I'm sure, both are good players.

But I still don't GET where he wants to go. I don't see any real vision or style of play developing.
Do you think if he's still here in say 18 months - will you guys be playing more attacking football?

 

[glazerfodder]

I'm sure, both are good players.

But I still don't GET where he wants to go. I don't see any real vision or style of play developing.
Do you think if he's still here in say 18 months - will you guys be playing more attacking football?

They alone are not the solution, but I think that ETH doesn't have direct replacements for them both (not just in positional terms, but also their dynamism and quality) and until he gets them back he is having to make do and mend, by which time, of course, it will all be too late. If the club is sold anytime soon or Ineos are able to implement changes, I can see ETH leaving.

 

[Chief]

Martinez and Shaw have been two massive losses for us, Martinez offered our defence and our keeper solidity and confidence while Shaw has proved to be a phenomenal provider down our left hand side and his absence affects both Rashford and Garnacho whenever they play, particularly Rashford who can't be arsed to venture back into his own half to help develop an attack. Those two, more than any other injury problems have impacted our progression considerably.

AWB behind Antony would also help.

Disappointing in the extreme that Sancho is refusing to be an option on the right.

You know how Southgate goes on about a double pivot axel or some bollocks or other? And it's Rice and Phillips, freeing up a front four.

Well, Amrabat and Casemiro could be that.

You've then got from Rashford, Fenandes, Mount, Antony, Martial, Garnacho, Eriksen to form the three behind Hojlund.

I actually fail to see how we can't play more attacking football! Staggering.

That said, still needs a settled defence and not one of the first choice back four is actually fit and available.
Although Maguire could play alongside Martinez.

 

[Treble]

Btw just something to add.

Another fck up was selling Fred and keeping McTominay.

I know I criticised him under Ole, but he was actually half decent under Ten Hag.

And a damned sight better than either McTominay and Hannibal.