Honestly, this topic is too complicated for me to have a solid opinion on so I'd rather not go in to it too much. However, the state of Israel was formed in 1948 - less than 100 years ago. Forcing people out of areas they've lived and I assume loved. Before that the region was recognised as Palestine. Israel is backed by the US/UK etc. It's obviously of strategical importance. Hamas is backed by Iran, which some could say is backed by Russia if you wanted to go down that rabbit hole (!) It's important to know the distinction between Palestinians and Hamas. But yeah, I agree with you it's a **** show; innocent people and children are getting slaughtered... Until the other day predominantly it was in Palestine as Israel look to expand their boarders. Palestine doesn't really get given a voice in western media. People have swapped their profile pics from Ukrainian flags to Israeli flags. But yeah, I don't know enough to have an actual opinion; the above is just me vomiting out my thoughts!
I suggested The Palestinians by Jonathan Dimbleby to Os when he asked for information. Written 40 years ago it gives a clear, accurate history of the origins of the Israeli/ Palestinian conflict that persists in Israel and what's left of Palestine today.
The phrase "Israeli civilians" keeps on being banded around this thread. Is there really such a thing ? All Israeli's are obliged to serve in the military at some point in their lives and I believe that there is in excess of 300,000 reservists. Israel is a martial society and I feel it is incorrect not to stress that any notion of "civilians" cannot be used in the same context as other Western countries.
This is an absolutely absurd post Spoke with my friend in Israel today. His little boy (4) hasn’t been able to sleep all week because he doesn’t think he will ever wake up. He also said goodbye as he has been notified by his unit that he is on standby for active military duty. So he won’t have access to his phone anymore. (He is older than fighting age should be) So yes Ian, of course there are ****ing civilians there. Also news currently breaking that Hamas beheaded 40 babies.
The historian Adrian Goldsworthy has alluded to the issues in Palestine during the first century AD in his books about the Romans. Back then, this part of the world was still a hot spot for instability and rebellion. In their own fashion, the Romans looked to take control of this area and impose their own "civitas" in this region but the numerous factions and level of politcal instability even in that time made the task extremely difficult. There is a famous quote about what "Pax Romana" actually menat (might have been Pliny???) but the upshot was that the Romans tried hard to appease the different factions but largely found it to be ungovernable. There is the suggestion that Jesus , if he was a real person, was most likely to have been a leader of one of these factions albeit one that did not believe in violence like so many of his contemporaries. Little has changed in the last 2000 years. Even before Vespasian and the suppression of the Jewish Reovlt atound 66-74 AD. there were subsequent revolts throughout antiquity. I do not know what happened during the early medieval period but assume that the area became Muslim at least in 8th Century and remained so until the Turks were defeated in Wolrd War One when the British helped establish a protectorate. The idea of a united Jewish state in antiquity is a myth.
If the Hamas militants have beheaded babies that is beyond savagery and absolutely disgusting and heartbreaking. Hope the perpetrators had a slow painful death or meet one in near future. Awful.
"War is a place where young people who don't know each other and don't hate each other, kill each other, based on decisions made by old people who know each other and hate each other, but don't kill each other... ” - Paul Valéry
If Israel lost every weapon over night, they would be gone by this weekend. If every weapon in the Middle East was taken and given to Israel, nothing in the World would change.
Bit of a false equivalency tbh as Israel has all the weaponry it needs. All they would need to completely wipe out the Palestinians is US permission. But yeah nothing would change if Israel got all the arms in the region. They'd just continue chipping away slowly at it like they have been doing for decades.
That’s the point. Hamas are the ones that want to destroy every last Jewish person. Israelis just want somewhere safe to live
And they've been carrying out pogroms against Palestinian civilians to expand that place to live for years now. Doesn't at all justify what Hamas has done, but you're telling a very lopsided story here.
The Israel government having been stealing land and forcing Palestinians from their homes for decades violating international law. The idea that their policy has to been to try and live peacefully and that they're just victims of unprovoked attacks is absolute bollocks of the highest order quite frankly. For the avoidance of doubt I'm not saying that justifies the atrocities committed by Hamas these past few days as it absolutely does not.
That story is being backed away from now...looks like it may well be propaganda to inflame the situation
That also wouldn't surprise me. I hope it is tbh as that's just such an awful and heinous act to have to consider.
It's the sort of thing that gets spread in every war I think. Saddam's soldiers were reported to be killing babies in Kuwait, except they weren't really. It would have been an act that would destroy Hamas IMHO because even the likes of Iran would want to distance themselves from that sort of atrocity and Hamas is nothing without funding. The sad thing is that even if Hamas were destroyed or made impotent, some other group would fill the power vacuum
