1. Log in now to remove adverts - no adverts at all to registered members!

Dr Strangelove (how I learned to stop worrying and love Boris)

Discussion in 'Sunderland' started by Deletion Requested1, Sep 21, 2021.

  1. gelders pie

    gelders pie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2011
    Messages:
    5,751
    Likes Received:
    12,234
    Maybe do without all political parties once AI gets up to speed ?
     
    #9281
  2. rooch 3

    rooch 3 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2011
    Messages:
    18,663
    Likes Received:
    27,570
    Why
    Why not just do without, could it be any worse?
     
    #9282
    gelders pie likes this.
  3. FellTop

    FellTop Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2020
    Messages:
    10,562
    Likes Received:
    38,401
    Leaked story says Labour plan to make it a legal right to be able to work from home.

    This would be an awful policy in my opinion. I have battled with staff who since covid wont return to the office. I only ask for a min of 1 day, ideally 2 a week. About 20% persistently dont do it. It is clear to me we do less productive work at home, as a team. There is limited interactive teamwork, where ideas are shared and problems are solved. Innovation is down. Then as a manager I have a duty of care for staff wellbeing. Hard to do that when I dont see them. Some even refuse to turn on a camera on a video call. Flexible working is great, this is as inflexible though. All about workers rights, very little thought to employers responsibilities.

    Then take the impact on the economy. The number of coffee shops, sandwhich shops etc that have closed because there isnt the worker footfall anymore. Offices stood empty. The list here is longer.

    Then the social impact. We are social creatures us humans. We do better when we meet and talk and have personal interactions. A lot of that comes from being at work with people.

    Horrible sounding thing this.
     
    #9283
  4. The Norton Cat

    The Norton Cat Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2015
    Messages:
    8,181
    Likes Received:
    15,883
    I think it depends on what you're doing and what you're like as an individual. I work from home (partly because my office is the best part of 2hrs away) and I find it very difficult to concentrate when I'm in the office. I am much more productive when I am on my own. There aren't people talking to me and I can get up from my desk and walk around or have the stuff that I'm working with spread out as far and wide as I like without disturbing anybody else. I am in regular contact with people in other offices via Teams and the phone so I don't feel like I miss out on any interaction (although I do avoid the petty office politics) or professional exchange.

    I don't think making working from a home a right is the correct thing to do though. It should be something that has to be agreed with an employer and done at their discretion. People would abuse the right if they didn't have to get that agreement.
     
    #9284
  5. Daz

    Daz Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2019
    Messages:
    4,639
    Likes Received:
    12,369
    It’s an interesting problem and although the world has changed post covid I agree it’s not a good thing making it a legal right. Every job role is different and it currently works as an agreement between employee and employer so no need to change it.

    I’m lucky that I work for an IT company and can truly say I am more productive at home. I predominantly work on projects for customers and when I’m in the office I get constantly asked about non project work and sidetracked or distracted by other issues. I get dragged into meetings and calls quite a lot and the colleagues in my team are the same.

    What I will say is it’s not fair to assume productivity drops for all employees, some will take the piss of course but in my experience the majority don’t. If anything I have noticed that people are online earlier and later in the day than when I’m the office so if anything productivity has increased.

    Where possible we allow working from home with an aim to be in the office 2 or 3 days a week and that balance works.
     
    #9285
    TopClub, The Norton Cat and FellTop like this.
  6. Smug in Boots

    Smug in Boots Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2011
    Messages:
    64,840
    Likes Received:
    150,472
    I generally agree with all of your points, you obviously know your stuff.

    All I would say is that there's another aspect that was apparent during Covid when millions of unnecessary journeys didn't happen. In a past life I was regularly flying around Europe 'on business' when a Skype call, even phones calls, would've easily done the job.

    A lot of business travel is pointless, even worse in councils. NHS, etc.
     
    #9286
    TopClub, rooch 3, DH4 and 1 other person like this.

  7. FellTop

    FellTop Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2020
    Messages:
    10,562
    Likes Received:
    38,401
    Yeah for lots of people it is a positive. Certainly dont think all people are not productive.

    I run large IT programmes and I find teamworking is best when in person, for somethings anyway. When we are troubleshooting nothing beats an office with some good old fashioned scribbling and debating. Mostly now I end up some in the office and some online and I find that not as productive as it would be. I also find when I am in the office I bump into people I didnt know I would benefit from seeing. Hearing about something that otherwise I wouldnt have heard about.

    Then there is the quick pint after work on occassion. Miss that to be honest.
     
    #9287
  8. FellTop

    FellTop Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2020
    Messages:
    10,562
    Likes Received:
    38,401
    Yeah mate, I agree. Certainly wouldnt want to go back to everybody in one place, being able to work remotely is a good thing in balance. Just feels a bit like throwing the baby out with the bathwater to me. We had plenty of good things in a work environment pre covid, and we learned new good things during it. Just keep the best of both worlds for me. If it becomes a legal right I know 4 people will write to me on day 1 asking for it, none of which really need it imo.
     
    #9288
    Flash Gordon, rooch 3, Daz and 3 others like this.
  9. Daz

    Daz Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2019
    Messages:
    4,639
    Likes Received:
    12,369
    Yeah I agree it does have it benefits doing a office/wfh split, my colleagues are top lads so it’s nice to see them when we are in the office.

    Post work pints, those were the days!
     
    #9289
    FellTop and gelders pie like this.
  10. gelders pie

    gelders pie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2011
    Messages:
    5,751
    Likes Received:
    12,234
    Think there’ll be too many objections for it to become a right . The other side are going to argue it’s the employer/ company’s “ right” to say working on premises is a requirement of the job. As has been said , nothing to stop employer agreeing some home working to individuals if it suits both parties and productivity and quality can be trusted
     
    #9290
  11. Daz

    Daz Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2019
    Messages:
    4,639
    Likes Received:
    12,369
    Employer agreements is the correct way to do it in my opinion, they may try and bring something in where if you are used to working from home you can't then be asked to suddenly work full time back in the office.

    Any laws would probably be like the European Working Time Directive anyway so some employees will be asked to opt out when signing a contract, there is usually a way around it.
     
    #9291
  12. rooch 3

    rooch 3 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2011
    Messages:
    18,663
    Likes Received:
    27,570
    If I heard one more person say ball park figure I would of rammed the ball up his/ her arse, that’s why I got out when I did, bunch of tossers.
     
    #9292
  13. Sunderpitt

    Sunderpitt Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2011
    Messages:
    10,976
    Likes Received:
    14,470
    FUN FACT: England is the ONLY country in the world to have privatised its ENTIRE water system.
     
    #9293
    gelders pie likes this.
  14. FellTop

    FellTop Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2020
    Messages:
    10,562
    Likes Received:
    38,401
    Should we lower the voting age to 16? At 16 you can get a job and pay taxes. Shouldnt they have a right to vote on how govt use their money?
     
    #9294
    Flash Gordon and Montysoptician like this.
  15. The Norton Cat

    The Norton Cat Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2015
    Messages:
    8,181
    Likes Received:
    15,883
    No. The majority of 16 year olds are impulsive and don't have the maturity to think through their choices. That's why Corbyn and the SNP have both been keen on lowering the voting age because they know that, in general, 16 year olds are more likely to vote for something that appears to be radical or that rebels against things that they see as 'the establishment' without completely considering the consequences.
     
    #9295
    Last edited: May 12, 2023
    Saf likes this.
  16. Sunderpitt

    Sunderpitt Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2011
    Messages:
    10,976
    Likes Received:
    14,470
    Hmm, most 16 year olds have to be told to get off their mobiles do their homework and get to bed... they have school in the morning!
     
    #9296
  17. Flash Gordon

    Flash Gordon Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2019
    Messages:
    5,636
    Likes Received:
    15,627
    Absolutely. 16 seems fair to me.

    Millions of people voted for Brexit despite not thinking through the consequences (some probably did).

    Millions voted for Corbyn/Boris/SNP/BNP etc. despite being "old enough" to know better.

    I don't forsee a Green rebellion or a rise in Communism just because 16 year olds get to make a choice to vote.
     
    #9297
    FellTop likes this.
  18. gelders pie

    gelders pie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2011
    Messages:
    5,751
    Likes Received:
    12,234
    I’ve “ liked” because of you sharing the knowledge , not sure I like the situation you’ve shared!
     
    #9298
  19. The Norton Cat

    The Norton Cat Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2015
    Messages:
    8,181
    Likes Received:
    15,883
    This is absolutely true, some people never mature or develop an understanding of the consequences of their actions. But by leaving the voting age at 18 you are limiting the possibility of results being skewed by populists or other bad actors who are relying on the votes of what are still legally children. If you need to lower the voting age to get elected or ensure you stay in power, there has to be something fundamentally wrong with your campaigning- your policies and governance clearly doesn't convince enough of the adult population.
     
    #9299
  20. gelders pie

    gelders pie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2011
    Messages:
    5,751
    Likes Received:
    12,234
    Yes if they have an idea of what’s going on , no if they’ll just vote for whoever their favourite pop or reality star favours. Impractical, but a simple test to pass to qualify for a vote. Hold on though , then we should have a test before trusting many adults with a vote
     
    #9300
    DH4 and The Norton Cat like this.

Share This Page