Match Day Thread Tottenham Hotspur v Everton

[Spurlock]

I'm not trying to defend our performance, because we gave the initiative away and that's something that a 5-4-1 team does anyway. I've argued before that having more control in midfield puts your defence under less pressure indirectly anyway. It's possible that we now can't get out of that mindset. I think there is such thing as a 'new manager bounce' but we're not going to get that because effectively Conte hasn't gone. And it's hardly surprising that the guy that has been No.2 to Conte for years only knows how to play like Conte!

Also while we didn't deserve it, a lot of teams win games they don't deserve to. So I might point to the fact that it's unlikely Keane hits his shot that well 9 times out of 10 (maybe even more). Also there was the question of perhaps another penalty (there was some video earlier, but for some reason I can't play it so can't comment further), plus what about the Coleman "tackle" on Perisic in the first half? Hard to say how bad because I only saw it once, and the commentator thought it was accidental. My first impression was that it wasn't accidental at all, and possibly as red-worthy as Moura's.

But I'm not defending our performance, it was horrendous with a man advantage. Many will blame the players for it (and many other occasions this season). Personally I think there's a lot of bad management going on, and if you are going to sack a manager, then really sack him and get rid of his No.2 as well. Otherwise what's the point? I really think the mindset of the players are so shackled by the last regime and JM etc, that they're stuck and are can't get out of it. They may be poor but they are better than they look. I think a different manager would prove this.

So is Levy to blame for the brain fart of keeping Conte Lite?

Are we going to actually blame him?

I hope so because Levy seems untouchable for some fans

 

[PowerSpurs]

It’s not just 60 mins though, their form throughout the season, especially Son, has been extremely problematic to the team, to the point where seeing them in the starting XI just brings groans from the fans.

For me, there’s no valid reason to not give Danjuma 3-5 starts to see if he can provide something even remotely positive. It’s even more frustrating that the two players we mention - Danjuma and Sarr - have both looked very good when actually getting significant minutes; Danjuma scored on his debut and looked very exciting, Sarr was excellent at the San Siro and yet both have been subjected to either zero or >5 minutes of action per game since.

It’s a term many of us have used over the last 3-4 years with this club but doing the same things over and over and expecting different (better) results really is insanity.

If Danjuma is better than Son then he ought to start.
The player who has featured in almost every match over our multi season bad run is Højbjerg. I think he is a very big part of the problem. He is often in the wrong place...look at Everton's goal last night....he isn't even in shot and Skipp is left by himself to try to shield the defence.

 

[PleaseNotPoll]

what about the Coleman "tackle" on Perisic in the first half? Hard to say how bad because I only saw it once, and the commentator thought it was accidental. My first impression was that it wasn't accidental at all, and possibly as red-worthy as Moura's.

I can't find a clip, but:

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Coleman's wasn't even given as a foul, IIRC. Yellow for me, but it was a bad one.

 

[humanbeingincroydon]

So is Levy to blame for the brain fart of keeping Conte Lite?

Are we going to actually blame him?

I hope so because Levy seems untouchable for some fans

Most of the managers on our shortlist aren't willing to join any club (so not just us) with ten games to go, with the exception of Luis Enrique

That would, though, throw up another potential issue: we also would need to replace our coaching staff, and getting another team's coaching team to leave en masse with the season getting into its business end is a big ask - and it has to be said asking Enrique if he'd be okay with working with Conte's coaches for a few games before getting his staff in the summer is probably not something that any club should be asking in interviews

 

[Spurlock]

Most of the managers on our shortlist aren't willing to join any club (so not just us) with ten games to go, with the exception of Luis Enrique

That would, though, throw up another potential issue: we also would need to replace our coaching staff, and getting another team's coaching team to leave en masse with the season getting into its business end is a big ask - and it has to be said asking Enrique if he'd be okay with working with Conte's coaches for a few games before getting his staff in the summer is probably not something that any club should be asking in interviews

I reckon Redknapp would have bitten our hands off to have 10 games…I’m sure he even spoke of it

got to think outside the box sometimes

Redknapp and Mason

would have been fun

But to keep Conte lite is just clueless behaviour imo

it would have also been interesting to see if it really is the management or the players due to Redknapp’s management methods compared to the Conte

Think we could have learnt a lot with these 10 games, instead we are all counting down till the season finishes because we know what we are getting

 

[Dier Hard]

If Danjuma is better than Son then he ought to start.
The player who has featured in almost every match over our multi season bad run is Højbjerg. I think he is a very big part of the problem. He is often in the wrong place...look at Everton's goal last night....he isn't even in shot and Skipp is left by himself to try to shield the defence.

It’s not about who the better player is, it’s who is in form and who isn’t. Son is woefully out of form to the point he’s a hindrance, therefore someone else should get a chance to show otherwise.

Hojbjerg always gets overplayed, no one quite knows why other than the managers.

 

[Dier Hard]

I reckon Redknapp would have bitten our hands off to have 10 games…I’m sure he even spoke of it

got to think outside the box sometimes

Redknapp and Mason

would have been fun

But to keep Conte lite is just clueless behaviour imo

Said the exact same, ‘Arry would’ve been exactly what these players needed for the last run of games. Arm round the shoulder, reminded them they are allowed to attack, played a formation that likely would’ve suited our better players and probably would pick up more points on average than what Stellini will do.

 

[PleaseNotPoll]

Our 2nd half performance was pathetic, but our options at the start were limited.
The way that we played after taking the lead was ridiculous, though.

Davies and Sessegnon leaves us with virtually no effective options at LB/LWB.
Perisic doesn't work, as he destroys the balance of the side and neutralises Son.
Who else can play there that's currently fit?

One option would be to switch to four at the back and use Lenglet as a Corluka-esque fullback.
That causes some issues and his pace would be a problem, but what we tried didn't work.
We've now dipped to a 39% win ratio when Perisic starts.

 

[humanbeingincroydon]

I reckon Redknapp would have bitten our hands off to have 10 games…I’m sure he even spoke of it

got to think outside the box sometimes

Redknapp and Mason

would have been fun

But to keep Conte lite is just clueless behaviour imo

it would have also been interesting to see if it really is the management or the players due to Redknapp’s management methods compared to the Conte

Think we could have learnt a lot with these 10 games, instead we are all counting down till the season finishes because we know what we are getting

It goes beyond Redknapp & Mason though

If we kept Conte's coaching team for the remainder of the season with R&M heading up coaching team, that would certainly be worth considering (even if Redknapp's been out of management for the best part of a decade)

If Conte's coaching team refused to work with Redknapp, we'd be boned

The cynic in me thinks this is why Chelsea are keeping Potter's assistant and coaching team for the remainder of the season, because if Potter's team left en masse when Potter was sacked we likely would've been on the blower PDQ

 

[Dier Hard]

Our 2nd half performance was pathetic, but our options at the start were limited.
The way that we played after taking the lead was ridiculous, though.

Davies and Sessegnon leaves us with virtually no effective options at LB/LWB.
Perisic doesn't work, as he destroys the balance of the side and neutralises Son.
Who else can play there that's currently fit?

One option would be to switch to four at the back and use Lenglet as a Corluka-esque fullback.
That causes some issues and his pace would be a problem, but what we tried didn't work.
We've now dipped to a 39% win ratio when Perisic starts.

Sessegnon an effective option at LWB

 

[PleaseNotPoll]

Sessegnon an effective option at LWB

We win almost twice as many games when he starts than when Perisic does.
He's not good enough and his lack of availability is another problem.
He does that job better than Perisic does, though. Other players are better when he starts.

 

[PowerSpurs]

It’s not about who the better player is, it’s who is in form and who isn’t. Son is woefully out of form to the point he’s a hindrance, therefore someone else should get a chance to show otherwise.

Hojbjerg always gets overplayed, no one quite knows why other than the managers.

You are assuming recent form is an indicator of near future performance. I don't think it is. As usual I think it is more random than that.

 

[humanbeingincroydon]

Our 2nd half performance was pathetic, but our options at the start were limited.
The way that we played after taking the lead was ridiculous, though.

Davies and Sessegnon leaves us with virtually no effective options at LB/LWB.
Perisic doesn't work, as he destroys the balance of the side and neutralises Son.
Who else can play there that's currently fit?

One option would be to switch to four at the back and use Lenglet as a Corluka-esque fullback.
That causes some issues and his pace would be a problem, but what we tried didn't work.
We've now dipped to a 39% win ratio when Perisic starts.

As each week goes past, I'm starting to think that I wasn't being ironic when I suggested if it's worth recalling Harvey White and having him play as a LWB

Obviously not an ideal move, but he did play LB for our academy sides so it's not a complete square peg/round hole move, but Perisic at this point feels like we're being punished for something we did in our previous lives

 

[Dier Hard]

We win almost twice as many games when he starts than when Perisic does.
He's not good enough and his lack of availability is another problem.
He does that job better than Perisic does, though. Other players are better when he starts.

He offers absolutely nothing though. Both he and Perisic have been extremely poor but the Croat at least provides a set piece threat. Sessegnon often gets hauled off in every game he starts too due to being so poor. I don’t think anyone plays better when he starts over Perisic either.

 

[Dier Hard]

You are assuming recent form is an indicator of near future performance. I don't think it is. As usual I think it is more random than that.

But it is though, because we’re literally seeing as such. Son’s performances haven’t changed throughout the season with about a three or four game exception. Thirty or so plus games is more than enough evidence to determine if a player is likely to play well or not in the following game.

 

[PleaseNotPoll]

He offers absolutely nothing though. Both he and Perisic have been extremely poor but the Croat at least provides a set piece threat. Sessegnon often gets hauled off in every game he starts too due to being so poor. I don’t think anyone plays better when he starts over Perisic either.

We win 64% of our games when he starts. We win 39% when Perisic starts.
I think Leicester at home is the only one where they both started.

Is Sessegnon good at playing the position? No, but he actually plays it.
I thought Perisic had been switched to left-wing at the start of yesterday's game.
Nope, he was just pushing really, really high up the left.
That results in Son playing centrally and deep and thus ****.

Davies played there against Chelsea, West Ham and Forest.
We played well in all three games, won comfortably and Son scored in two of them.
I don't think it's a coincidence. We don't have a functional player there right now.

 

[ToonArmy1892]

This is why I supported your campaign to become Mod of this board. No nonsense. One Vince McMahon gif and he'd have been out on the street. No polite warnings, no second chances. Out.

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[Dier Hard]

We win 64% of our games when he starts. We win 39% when Perisic starts.
I think Leicester at home is the only one where they both started.

Is Sessegnon good at playing the position. No, but he actually plays it.
I thought Perisic had been switched to left-wing at the start of yesterday's game.
Nope, he was just pushing really, really high up the left.
That results in Son playing centrally and deep and thus ****.

Davies played there against Chelsea, West Ham and Forest.
We played well in all three games, won comfortably and Son scored in two of them.
I don't think it's a coincidence. We don't have a functional player there right now.

That’s like mentioning the Bale curse back in the day, it stems far beyond just one player. AVB would also be our 3rd best manager in history if we went by percentages.

Son has been poor and subbed off in a large number of games Sessegnon has also started so there’s no genuine correlation Son actually plays well Sessegnon starts. One or both generally get subbed when they start together too, which further implies there’s no genuine link up or partnership between the pair.

Davies I’d agree with you on though, he’s been by far the best LWB this season in his small amount of games there.

 

[Dier Hard]

Wish you ****ing would move on…

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[PowerSpurs]

But it is though, because we’re literally seeing as such. Son’s performances haven’t changed throughout the season with about a three or four game exception. Thirty or so plus games is more than enough evidence to determine if a player is likely to play well or not in the following game.

If there are three or four games where the rule doesn't hold then it isn't a rule.
It's becoming increasingly likely that Son is in decline though.