Off Topic The Politics Thread

[Willhoops]

Will, you cannot keep introducing whataboutery to the trans v women debate, Sure, there are some hateful men who carry out criminal attacks on women. As I say, it's a serious issue and has to be addressed continually.

The issue of trans rights encroaching into women's rights is entirely separate, and has to be judged on its own merits.

No, no, no and no. It’s a non issue pushed mostly by bigots, religious groups or sensationalists for political gain. Trans are the latest group pushed as the boogie man to scare people.

The people who oppress or endanger women are like I’ve said many times before almost exclusively men. The issue you are seemingly wanting addressed is women’s rights, yet you have **** all interest in dealing with the problems that face women… unless you can make a narrative that trans people are doing this.

Even if a were to accept that trans rights were a danger to women, which I’m not, you’d have to then accept due to the number of trans you’d be looking at such a tiny percentage in the bigger picture!! Why the **** would someone focus on a tiny percentage of an issue totally ignoring the huge percentage? It makes **** all sense whatsoever it’s almost as though you have no interest in women’s rights but only preventing trans rights!

 

[Goldhawk-Road]

No, no, no and no. It’s a non issue pushed mostly by bigots, religious groups or sensationalists for political gain. Trans are the latest group pushed as the boogie man to scare people.

The people who oppress or endanger women are like I’ve said many times before almost exclusively men. The issue you are seemingly wanting addressed is women’s rights, yet you have **** all interest in dealing with the problems that face women… unless you can make a narrative that trans people are doing this.

Even if a were to accept that trans rights were a danger to women, which I’m not, you’d have to then accept due to the number of trans you’d be looking at such a tiny percentage in the bigger picture!! Why the **** would someone focus on a tiny percentage of an issue totally ignoring the huge percentage? It makes **** all sense whatsoever it’s almost as though you have no interest in women’s rights but only preventing trans rights!

On male violence against women, we all have an interest in doing everything possible to eradicate it. As I say, it's a continuing battle.

On the entirely separate issue of trans rights, the prime concern is safety. Women incl mothers with daughters don't want men with genitalia intact coming into their spaces like women's toilets and changing rooms. Some men (not genuine trans) are perverts and would use it as an excuse to expose themselves to young girls or worse. As to crime, we're already seeing "women with penises committing rape" messing up statistics, and again, perverted or opportunistic men would use any excuse to get into a women's block. Then there's all the unfairness in sport. It goes on.

 

[sb_73]

On male violence against women, we all have an interest in doing everything possible to eradicate it. As I say, it's a continuing battle.

On the entirely separate issue of trans rights, the prime concern is safety. Women incl mothers with daughters don't want men with genitalia intact coming into their spaces like women's toilets and changing rooms. Some men (not genuine trans) are perverts and would use it as an excuse to expose themselves to young girls or worse. As to crime, we're already seeing "women with penises committing rape" messing up statistics, and again, perverted or opportunistic men would use any excuse to get into a women's block. Then there's all the unfairness in sport. It goes on.

So, in your own words, the issue isn’t trans women, it’s men pretending to be trans women. So why so anti trans?

 

[sb_73]

One for those who vote Tory on here.

If Sunak gets more than half of MPs supporting him (180, he has 146 declared now) would you want Johnson not to put himself forward for election, even if he gets 100 supporters and let the ‘members’ make the call. You know the ones who voted for Truss?

I don’t think Johnson will declare until he’s got 100, maybe not even then if it’s clear the vast majority of Tory MPs want him to **** off. But if I’m wrong the fun will be immense.

 

[Goldhawk-Road]

So, in your own words, the issue isn’t trans women, it’s men pretending to be trans women. So why so anti trans?

There is no question that some men do use a self identified trans identity to gain access to women. There have been several cases in prisons.

Men that have full surgery to transition to women should have more rights than those that don't in my view. But still, competing in women's sport is an issue because of muscle mass, testosterone levels etc

Men that have full male genitalia and call themselves trans men are just that. They are not women and should not have access to women's safe spaces etc. I think the way forward is to have their own trans toilets and changing rooms etc

Of course, one vital aspect is the Mermaid type issue where children may be persuaded to take irrevocable steps to change their bodies, and may regret it later

 

[Willhoops]

On male violence against women, we all have an interest in doing everything possible to eradicate it. As I say, it's a continuing battle.

On the entirely separate issue of trans rights, the prime concern is safety. Women incl mothers with daughters don't want men with genitalia intact coming into their spaces like women's toilets and changing rooms. Some men (not genuine trans) are perverts and would use it as an excuse to expose themselves to young girls or worse. As to crime, we're already seeing "women with penises committing rape" messing up statistics, and again, perverted or opportunistic men would use any excuse to get into a women's block. Then there's all the unfairness in sport. It goes on.

Ok so now you want to discuss rape. You know where there actually has been a huge number of sexual attacks and rapes in recent years? Women getting spiked in pubs and clubs, strange you’ve never mentioned it on here, oh that’s almost exclusively by men by the way.

The whole changing room thing is ****ing bullshit, a large number of places including shops, swimming pools, etc have had mixed changing room for years… surely if there were sick bastards wanting opportunity there would be an existing issue… but no, gotta be easier than waiting till now, dressing as trans which instantly puts you in danger of attack surely?

If you are seeing a number of trans attacks on women it says way more about the media you consume. That’s demonstrated by the fact you also don’t mention the attacks on trans people which is very common… or maybe that just doesn’t bother you

 

[Goldhawk-Road]

One for those who vote Tory on here.

If Sunak gets more than half of MPs supporting him (180, he has 146 declared now) would you want Johnson not to put himself forward for election, even if he gets 100 supporters and let the ‘members’ make the call. You know the ones who voted for Truss?

I don’t think Johnson will declare until he’s got 100, maybe not even then if it’s clear the vast majority of Tory MPs want him to **** off. But if I’m wrong the fun will be immense.

I'm not sure I qualify, as I'm not sure I'll vote Tory next time but... I want Johnson to back away as gracefully as possible. Sunak has earned the right to take on the immensely difficult task of being UK prime minister imo

 

[Star of David Bardsley]

If I were so inclined to sexually assault someone in a toilet I don’t see how it would matter if I was pretending to be trans or not. It’s not like toilets are policed. Maybe it’s happening all over the place and the leftie MSM is covering it up.

 

[sb_73]

I'm not sure I qualify, as I'm not sure I'll vote Tory next time but... I want Johnson to back away as gracefully as possible. Sunak has earned the right to take on the immensely difficult task of being UK prime minister imo

Who would you vote for if not Tory?

 

[Willhoops]

There is no question that some men do use a self identified trans identity to gain access to women. There have been several cases in prisons.

Men that have full surgery to transition to women should have more rights than those that don't in my view. But still, competing in women's sport is an issue because of muscle mass, testosterone levels etc

Men that have full male genitalia and call themselves trans men are just that. They are not women and should not have access to women's safe spaces etc. I think the way forward is to have their own trans toilets and changing rooms etc

Of course, one vital aspect is the Mermaid type issue where children may be persuaded to take irrevocable steps to change their bodies, and may regret it later

You know most steps of transition aren’t available till people are adults right? Any that are such as hormone blockers effects stop as soon as the person stops taking them. Most young female gymnasts because of their physicality and the pressures to have a certain body type have a lot of the same reactions of hormone blockers. The majority of any changes for children are societal such as name and pro nouns.

Less than 2% of trans people show any regret, the vast majority of which state societal pressures, family disowning, reaction of peer groups, bullying, verbal and physical attacks, lack of support as the reason of regret.

For someone with such a formed opinion on the matter your knowledge is … well ****ing awful.

 

[Goldhawk-Road]

Ok so now you want to discuss rape. You know where there actually has been a huge number of sexual attacks and rapes in recent years? Women getting spiked in pubs and clubs, strange you’ve never mentioned it on here, oh that’s almost exclusively by men by the way.

The whole changing room thing is ****ing bullshit, a large number of places including shops, swimming pools, etc have had mixed changing room for years… surely if there were sick bastards wanting opportunity there would be an existing issue… but no, gotta be easier than waiting till now, dressing as trans which instantly puts you in danger of attack surely?

If you are seeing a number of trans attacks on women it says way more about the media you consume. That’s demonstrated by the fact you also don’t mention the attacks on trans people which is very common… or maybe that just doesn’t bother you

Here you go again, conflating different issues to cast a mist over trans only issues.

There are plenty of women and girl changing rooms that are not mixed. In clubs, in clothes stores etc There are women's pampering clubs that are all women. And women's toilets are almost always separate.

As to attacks on trans people, which is the other side of the coin, they are abhorrent and I condemn them utterly. I do think it possible that the more aggressively Stonewall etc demand to infringe women's hard earned rights, the more resentment it builds up. This is in no way an excuse but it could possibly be a reason.

 

[Willhoops]

If I were so inclined to sexually assault someone in a toilet I don’t see how it would matter if I was pretending to be trans or not. It’s not like toilets are policed. Maybe it’s happening all over the place and the leftie MSM is covering it up.

Exactly like I’ve pointed out there have been mixed dressing and changing rooms for years if there was a real threat it would have become apparent way before now, but it hasn’t.. because it’s not, the reason… because there’s way easier ways for these sick ****s to get access to their victims.

 

[Goldhawk-Road]

Who would you vote for if not Tory?

I'd look at Tice's Reform Party. Their manifesto when they produce one.

 

[sb_73]

I'd look at Tice's Reform Party. Their manifesto when they produce one.

Thanks for the response.

 

[Goldhawk-Road]

You know most steps of transition aren’t available till people are adults right? Any that are such as hormone blockers effects stop as soon as the person stops taking them. Most young female gymnasts because of their physicality and the pressures to have a certain body type have a lot of the same reactions of hormone blockers. The majority of any changes for children are societal such as name and pro nouns.

Less than 2% of trans people show any regret, the vast majority of which state societal pressures, family disowning, reaction of peer groups, bullying, verbal and physical attacks, lack of support as the reason of regret.

For someone with such a formed opinion on the matter your knowledge is … well ****ing awful.

The Times reported 4% of male detransition. You will know there's an investigation into Mermaids atm. Breast binding and one officer resigned as he was a *****phile. Great care has to be taken.

 

[qprbeth]

What, even evil Tories Beth?

Yes even them.

Wallace and Tugendhat and Mordent.
Spring to mind... There are many others.


Lots of other of Tories are straight down their road, not my road...but they are straight on their road...too.

I may not vote for them, but I respect their views.

I hated hated Thatcher, but she was straight and very honest.
More than can be said for...Boris, Rees Mogg, Gove.....etc

 

[qprbeth]

Yes even them.

Wallace and Tugendhat and Mordent.
Spring to mind... There are many others.


Lots of other of Tories are straight down their road, not my road...but they are straight on their road...too.

I may not vote for them, but I respect their views.

I hated hated Thatcher, but she was straight and very honest.
More than can be said for...Boris, Rees Mogg, Gove.....etc

Gove..a life long Rangers supporter who followed Chelsea into Europe in a Chelski shirt.

I rest my point

 

[Willhoops]

Here you go again, conflating different issues to cast a mist over trans only issues.

There are plenty of women and girl changing rooms that are not mixed. In clubs, in clothes stores etc There are women's pampering clubs that are all women. And women's toilets are almost always separate.

As to attacks on trans people, which is the other side of the coin, they are abhorrent and I condemn them utterly. I do think it possible that the more aggressively Stonewall etc demand to infringe women's hard earned rights, the more resentment it builds up. This is in no way an excuse but it could possibly be a reason.

Again absolute bullshit, a number of clothes stores have have had mixed for years, clubs? There are plenty that have mixed, especially gay clubs.. you know trans friendly spaces… you know what, these places haven’t had issues. So if there was a problem it would have become apparent by now. You know where there has been issues, men spiking women’s drinks, something you’ve never showed any concern on here about odd that.

I expect you know very little on organisations like stonewall and especially mermaids who have helped saved thousands of lives, and whilst not perfect, Stonewall possibly more than others but not for the reasons you’d suggest. The perception you have of these organisations are predominately down to the media you consumes reporting of them and the spin they put, rather than what they actually do. I have condemned especially in other spaces, but in here as well some of Stonewalls statements and certain ways in which they have operated.

lgtbq and especially trans are constantly misrepresented, sometimes from within. I often see a comment attributed to the trans community by one person, the odd person doesn’t represent the community otherwise we’d think all Torys think gays are tank topped bum boys or that they all think people of a certain ethnicity are piccaninnies with watermelon smiles.

 

[Willhoops]

The Times reported 4% of male detransition. You will know there's an investigation into Mermaids atm. Breast binding and one officer resigned as he was a *****phile. Great care has to be taken.

So what are the results of binding? Go on this will be good, if there is issues with binders it’s almost certainly down to them being used incorrectly… due to lack of information, them not being fitted right, the reports I’ve seen have attributed this to trans kids just getting anything they can because they have trans aggressive parents and lack of support system. So societal issues not that of binders.

ok so if one peadophile is found within an organisation let’s totally undermine the organisation and what they are trying to do? As that’s exactly what you’re doing here Well that’s the Tory party, every religion, pretty much every youth group, brexit party absolutely ****ed.

 

[Goldhawk-Road]

Again absolute bullshit, a number of clothes stores have have had mixed for years, clubs? There are plenty that have mixed, especially gay clubs.. you know trans friendly spaces… you know what, these places haven’t had issues. So if there was a problem it would have become apparent by now. You know where there has been issues, men spiking women’s drinks, something you’ve never showed any concern on here about odd that.

I expect you know very little on organisations like stonewall and especially mermaids who have helped saved thousands of lives, and whilst not perfect, Stonewall possibly more than others but not for the reasons you’d suggest. The perception you have of these organisations are predominately down to the media you consumes reporting of them and the spin they put, rather than what they actually do. I have condemned especially in other spaces, but in here as well some of Stonewalls statements and certain ways in which they have operated.

lgtbq and especially trans are constantly misrepresented, sometimes from within. I often see a comment attributed to the trans community by one person, the odd person doesn’t represent the community otherwise we’d think all Torys think gays are tank topped bum boys or that they all think people of a certain ethnicity are piccaninnies with watermelon smiles.

You are THE master of whataboutery. I point out there are women's only places and spaces, and you point out some that aren't. What ****ing relevance is that? There are women's only places and evidence has been given to Parliament about them, so stop pretending there aren't.

I will stay judgement on Mermaids until the Inquiry into them reaches a conclusion.

Back to watermelon smiles - more whataboutery.