Should Ferrari replace Massa for 2012?

[Big Ern]

why did Massa turn in, why didn't he make his allowed defensive move and cover off the inside, why did he open a barn door and invite Hamitlon in just before the turn, why did he then decide to close the door too late, knowing that Hamilton was there. Why watch him all the way and then STILL turn in.
If you open a door to someone on the inside going faster than you then you MUST expect them to take it, if you then move across the front of them then it's you who has made the move that's caused the accident. Only one driver caused it, the driver doing it, only one driver could've avoided it, and it was Massa and, surprise surprise, he decided a crash was a better outcome than being overtaken, which is actually fairly usual for Massa this season.

 

[Masanari]

why did Massa turn in, why didn't he make his allowed defensive move and cover off the inside, why did he open a barn door and invite Hamitlon in just before the turn, why did he then decide to close the door too late, knowing that Hamilton was there. Why watch him all the way and then STILL turn in.
If you open a door to someone on the inside going faster than you then you MUST expect them to take it, if you then move across the front of them then it's you who has made the move that's caused the accident. Only one driver caused it, the driver doing it, only one driver could've avoided it, and it was Massa and, surprise surprise, he decided a crash was a better outcome than being overtaken, which is actually fairly usual for Massa this season.

You make out like Massa was moving all over the place or doing something unsual, he was not, he just stayed on the racing line and took the corner how he had for all the other laps. Hamilton was trying to overtake into a corner that was not the most receptive to overtaking and when you try to slip your car up the inside of a corner like that and do not even get level with the car you are trying to overtake then you clearly do not have the corner and you have to get out of it to avoid hitting the car. I do not know how Hamilton thought he was going to take that corner at that speed on that line without either hitting Massa or Massa jumping completely out of the way.

 

[Big Ern]

Sorry, but Massa's actions all the way down the straight and into the corner make it seem to me that he was looking for an accident so he could cry to the stewards again. Massa opened the door, watch Hamilton PULL ALONGSIDE, then broke later, which makes it seem Hamilton was further back than he actually was, then turned in KNOWING there would be an accident and he could vindicate his pathetic attempt to get Hamilton censured. Massa tries to drive almost everyone who tries to overtake him off the road, he's a dirty bastard, he should've been taken to the stewards in Australia and given a penalty there and maybe he wouldn't cause so many accidents, where Hamilton is just careless Massa is premeditated.

 

[happyal]

I don't think we are going to agree with our opinion of the incidents this year with dirty Hamilton and nice guy Massa. I really can't see any premeditation in Massa’s actions, and if that were true I would certainly think less of him.

I think we should agree that the stewards at this weekends Grand Prix say that this one was Massa’s fault, and leave it there.

 

[Big Ern]

it should really have been a racing incident, but this season there've been so many penalties for slight contact (Alonso at Malaysia for example) that is has made it almost impossible for the stewards NOT to give a penalty. However in this case, and considering the words always coming from Massa, and after Massa's 'Hamilton summit' was humiliatingly for him ignored by other drivers, his actions looked a bit premeditated to me, especially when viewed from the front.

On a side note, I don't think Massa belongs in F1 anymore. the only team-mates he's ever beaten were Villeneuve (once) and the disinterested Raikkonen (once). Not a particularly good record. Beaten by Fisi, Heidfeld, Raikkonen, Schumacher

 

[allsaintchris.]

I do not really want to get into this but Massa was ahead and had the racing line, why should he get out of the way?

So a driver has to be completely alongside or ahead otherwise the other guy has a right to turn in regardless?

 

[di Fredsta!]

The thing is, the next corner Hamilton would have been off, he shouldnt have tried the move and its barely wide enough for one car, if Massa had gave room he would have been off and probably crashed knowing him. Singapore's turn 7(?) is an overtaking spot but India turn 5 isnt. Thats the difference and why it was Hamilton's fault. If it is an overtaking spot then Massa is to blame.
Hamilton even said something like "I knew he wasnt going to back off" so if he knew that, why didnt he back off?

Massa needs to go, if Sutil is clever he would be talking to them, saying Massa needs to go and i will do a better job than him. What have they to lose?

 

[Masanari]

So a driver has to be completely alongside or ahead otherwise the other guy has a right to turn in regardless?

No, but if you are trying to overtake and are not level with the car you are trying to overtake the emphasis is on you to make sure to do the move cleanly, and there is no reason for the car ahead to get out of your way and let your through.

 

[Big Ern]

he didn't want him to get out of the way, he already HAD done that, then he turned into Hamilton, not the other way around. Comng up to the corner they were level, it was Massa's late brake that makes it look otherwise. Massa didn't have to get out of the way, but he didn't have to drive into Hamiilton either, there was plenty of room the otherside of Massa, but thatwould've meant he had to give up the place, which he was not prepared to do.

 

[Max Whiplash]

My guess is that Massa would expect Hamilton to get the penalty whatever he (Felipe) did; a fairly safe assumption, probably. I'm glad the stewards took the decision that they did. It should not appear that Lewis is fair game and will receive a penalty no matter what.

To return to the OP, I agree. It's time for Massa to go, he's a liability and an embarrassment to Ferrari now. They have been generous with their loyalty to him in a sport which is not renowned for its sentiment. There are more deserving drivers out there and, from a spectator's point of view, I'd rather see a real contender in that top car, someone hungry for success and trying to make a name for himself. From Ferrari's point of view, barring a miracle, a WCC is impossible while Massa remains in that seat.

 

[allsaintchris.]

No, but if you are trying to overtake and are not level with the car you are trying to overtake the emphasis is on you to make sure to do the move cleanly, and there is no reason for the car ahead to get out of your way and let your through.

How can you do that when the car alongside cuts in front of you sharply!? Massa came right acorss his bows Hamilton stood no chance to avoid the collision.

THe only reason he missed Schuey at Italy was the corner was less severe with no kerb so he could take to the grass. Everyone thought that was naughty by Schuey, so where was the difference here?

 

[Forza Bianchi]

There are more deserving drivers out there and, from a spectator's point of view, I'd rather see a real contender in that top car, someone hungry for success and trying to make a name for himself.

Did you have anyone in mind?

I don't really see what perez offers (besides sponsorship money)

Perez is a brilliant driver, he has the speed in qualifying and the brains in the race to consistently deliver strong performances. With arguably the slowest car of the midfield, look at what he did in India. He owned Di Resta, kept up with Sutil and resisted pressure throughout the race from Petrov's much faster Renault. Already he is more complete than a lot of other experienced drivers.

I don't know if he's ready to be a Ferrari driver next year. He would surely do a better job than Massa, but I think he needs another year of experience in a midfield team to hone his race skills and prove that he is the best in the midfield and deserves to be at Ferrari. In the meantime I think a quick replacement is necessary. Following Massa's crap drive in India, there have been rumours of Rosberg going to Ferrari next year, and on here Rosberg isn't confirmed for next year.

 

[paultheplug]

To answer the OP Ferrari should keep Massa. He has shown glimpses of his previous excellent form and it is quite possible that when Ferrari get their car right next season he will do what good second drivers do and take points away from Alonso's main rivals Vettel and Button.

 

[Masanari]

How can you do that when the car alongside cuts in front of you sharply!? Massa came right acorss his bows Hamilton stood no chance to avoid the collision.

THe only reason he missed Schuey at Italy was the corner was less severe with no kerb so he could take to the grass. Everyone thought that was naughty by Schuey, so where was the difference here?

Hamilton should not of been where he was, he was never going to be able to take the corner going at that speed and that line without coming into contact with Massa unless Massa got completely out of the way.

The difference with the Schumacher incident at Monza was that Schumacher pushed him off the track. Whereas here Hamilton put his car in the wrong place and basically drove into it.

 

[Max Whiplash]

Did you have anyone in mind?



Perez is a brilliant driver, he has the speed in qualifying and the brains in the race to consistently deliver strong performances. With arguably the slowest car of the midfield, look at what he did in India. He owned Di Resta, kept up with Sutil and resisted pressure throughout the race from Petrov's much faster Renault. Already he is more complete than a lot of other experienced drivers.

I don't know if he's ready to be a Ferrari driver next year. He would surely do a better job than Massa, but I think he needs another year of experience in a midfield team to hone his race skills and prove that he is the best in the midfield and deserves to be at Ferrari. In the meantime I think a quick replacement is necessary. Following Massa's crap drive in India, there have been rumours of Rosberg going to Ferrari next year, and on here Rosberg isn't confirmed for next year.

Perez is the obvious choice, not just for his talent and obvious potential, but because he's already in the Ferrari system. But as you say, it's a year too early for him; I guess the plan was to keep Felipe for 2012 for this reason. Others in the 'green' category would be Alguersuari and even Hulkenberg or di Resta, whose Italian blood would go down well maybe. But I'm less convinced that these last two would be ready.

Rosberg or Sutil are more seasoned drivers who would fit the bill and Kobayashi has that bit of extra experience over the younger drivers but has hit a run of bad form recently. Kovalainen is good enough but as he withered under Hamilton, so might he under Alonso.

All that said though, I think any of them would be better than Massa as he is now. After all, it's the opportunity of a lifetime.

 

[EternalMSC]

He should go to another team on the grid, much like Kovalainen and Barrichello he needs a change.

 

[allsaintchris.]

He should go to another team on the grid, much like Kovalainen and Barrichello he needs a change.

Massa to Williams maybe?

Barrichello doesn;t seem to offer anything to Williams these days so can;t see the point in keeping him on. A new team could well be the rejuvination Massa needs. He is getting stagnant at Ferrari and things are not going to improve as he is in Alonso's shadow and shows no sign on taking a fight to the Spainard.

 

[Masanari]

I think it would be a great move from both Rosberg and Ferrari if they hired him and as Forza said he is not confirmed for Mercedes next year so it could still be possible and I really hope it happens. I think Perez needs a bit more time in the midfield before stepping up to Ferrari.

 

[allsaintchris.]

I think it would be a great move from both Rosberg and Ferrari if they hired him and as Forza said he is not confirmed for Mercedes next year so it could still be possible and I really hope it happens. I think Perez needs a bit more time in the midfield before stepping up to Ferrari.

Massa came to Ferrari too early and was still learning his craft in the limelight at the top of the grid. I agree Perez could do with another season in the midfield, but if the opportunity came up for him he would jump at the chance.

 

[Masanari]

Massa came to Ferrari too early and was still learning his craft in the limelight at the top of the grid. I agree Perez could do with another season in the midfield, but if the opportunity came up for him he would jump at the chance.

It would not be the worst thing if Perez moved to Ferrari this season but it would also not be ideal, even Massa had two season at Sauber before he moved to Ferrari.