Off Topic The Politics Thread

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Should the UK remain a part of the EU or leave?

  • Stay in

    Votes: 56 47.9%

  • Get out

    Votes: 61 52.1%
  • Total voters
    117
  • Poll closed .
sb_73 said:
One for @rangercol (we’ll agree on this one!). For reasons beyond my comprehension I was watching the One Show the other day and they had Victoria Derbyshire on, praising her ‘news’ coverage of the Ukraine war, which is apparently very popular with a certain demographic. She explained that she tries to keep everything very simple and doesn’t show any visuals because ‘many people have told me that they have never lived through anything like this before and I don’t want to upset them with violent images’.

Well, here’s the thing Vicky. War is violent and the innocent suffer, and by actual violence, not just pictures of it. Although it upset me deeply the image of the woman and her two small children dead by mortar fire in Irpin was about the most important picture I have seen so far, because it makes this **** real, these are people just like us, and I applaud the BBC and other outlets for showing it. Patronising people by shielding them from unpleasantness does not do them or any one else any favours Vicky. If you know what the violent death of innocent people looks like are you more or less likely to try and stop it happening? Getting upset can be positive.

Brought into even starker relief this morning when I opened up LinkedIn and the first post was from a software company called SE Ranking, based in Palo Alto, California, but with a lot of operations in Ukraine. The post was to remember their chief accountant, Tatiana Perebeinis, and her two children, Alise and Nikita. They were the real people killed in Irpin, the images of which has moved so many of us. I hope knowing their names won’t upset too many people.
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I would have to agree Sb. While the images are upsetting it is the reality of war - the death and the destruction to peoples lives and homes is reality. A reality that no-one in their right mind wants.

For me there is too much on the refugee situation (and they all have my complete sympathy, it is heartbreaking to see families separated as fathers and sons stay to fight and wives and children are refugees). We are seeing very little to understand the level of fighting and it is extremely hard to gauge how well/badly either the Russians or Ukrainians are really doing. I’m sure those with a need to know do know; but I’m blind to where these armies actually stand (against each other) apart from the continuously regurgitated video snaps.
 
Goldhawk-Road said:
If there's prima facie evidence of bulling staff by Patel, that should be formally investigated too. There's no place for bullying in modern society.
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She was investigated and found guilty by a Cabinet Office enquiry. Johnson ignored it.

Still at least they got that 'Remainer' Bercow, eh?
 
Steelmonkey said:
If her audience don't like it, they can turn over to Homes Under the Hammer or some other brain dead ****e. There's no shying away from the brutality of war - but where was Vickys coverage of tee civil war in Eastern Ukraine before this started, or Syria, Chechnya, Yemen, Cameroon? Are we so appalled just because it's in Europe? Russia bombed the **** out of Syria, and hardly anyone turned an eye, committed countless atrocities in Chechnya, picking one set of Jihadists to back against another, and now employing them.in Eastern Ukraine to commit further atrocities (although if reports are to believed, they may have suffered significant casualties).
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You forgot Georgia. We have let him get away with the same tactics - bomb civilians to **** - so often that it’s no surprise he thinks he’ll get away with it again….

I think the fact that it’s Europe might make a difference, more so the sense of direct threat that we have now.

I think people expect this will be over quickly, but if we look at all recent conflicts it probably won’t, it’ll be a long war of attrition, unless Putin has a stroke sharpish.
 
sb_73 said:
You forgot Georgia. We have let him get away with the same tactics - bomb civilians to **** - so often that it’s no surprise he thinks he’ll get away with it again….

I think the fact that it’s Europe might make a difference, more so the sense of direct threat that we have now.

I think people expect this will be over quickly, but if we look at all recent conflicts it probably won’t, it’ll be a long war of attrition, unless Putin has a stroke sharpish.
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I left Georgia out because, relatively speaking, there weren't that many casualties (I checked before posting - less than 180 combatants from both sides, about 500.civilians) - still too many though.

I read somewhere that he's bringing in Syrian troops who are mega experienced in door-to-door combat in built up areas, so the longevity of this war could be extended if that's the way he wants to fight it. Be one hell of a lot of body bags for his troops though, one of the most intense, gruelling types of warfare there is
 
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Can we put this plane supply argument to bed… the Ukrainians use the old crap Migs, which we don’t have. It’s no good sending them planes they have never used? As it is, the planes they are getting will need pilot training. We have sent loads of anti tank and ground to air missiles. That Russian equipment going up in smoke is from U.K. missiles. No politics, just facts.
 
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Stroller said:
She was investigated and found guilty by a Cabinet Office enquiry. Johnson ignored it.

Still at least they got that 'Remainer' Bercow, eh?
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You mean the hard Brexit Tory Bercow who changed allegiances because his wife told him to. Then decided to go above and beyond the call of duty as Speaker to disrupt democracy… and whilst he was doing that managed to bully several women? That John Bercow?
 
ELLERS said:
You mean the hard Brexit Tory Bercow who changed allegiances because his wife told him to. Then decided to go above and beyond the call of duty as Speaker to disrupt democracy… and whilst he was doing that managed to bully several women? That John Bercow?
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You’ve never given a **** about Priti Patel so sit down.
 
ELLERS said:
Can we put this plane supply argument to bed… the Ukrainians use the old crap Migs, which we don’t have. It’s no good sending them planes they have never used? As it is, the planes they are getting will need pilot training. We have sent loads of anti tank and ground to air missiles. That Russian equipment going up in smoke is from U.K. missiles. No politics, just facts.
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EU countries that still have Mig-29 fighters include Poland, Bulgaria and Slovakia, all also members of NATO. The Ukranian Air Force use Mig-29 so would be able to jump in the seat straight away.

The problem is, Poland don't want to give away their planes without replacements, as this would potentially leave them vulnerable if Vlad feels he wants to grab a bit more land. They are in negotiations with the EU and NATO allies to replace their Migs with F-16s.

Also, where do they fly from to get to Ukraine? And where can they land? The Russians have pretty much destroyed the airfields, and will be watching the airspace to see where the planes come from. It's quite feasible that Putin will see any aircraft flown in from Poland for Ukranian use as an act of war, thus giving him an excuse to attack further.
 
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Bwood_Ranger said:
Another **** non-answer because you’re a hypocrite defending this government of spivs and incompetent nonces.
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Interesting how you never criticise anyone other than the Tories? At least Stroller had the decency to to acknowledge that Bercow was a #### and rightly kicked out. Get back to Partygate.
 
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