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Discussion in 'Sunderland' started by The realist, Feb 7, 2022.

  1. The Norton Cat

    The Norton Cat Well-Known Member

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    How on earth is Speakman a non-football man? He's been coaching since he was 19 and holds the UEFA Pro Licence.
     
    #21
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  2. sheepman

    sheepman Well-Known Member

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    How's Speakman a "Non Football man"
    Edit just seen your post @The Norton Cat
     
    #22
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  3. The realist

    The realist Active Member

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    Big deal! Who has he played for? What are his credentials for finding quality talent?
    Yes we know mourinho, tuchel etc but the vast majority of successful football people have played at a decent enough level.
     
    #23
  4. Saf

    Saf Not606 Godfather+NOT606 Poster of the year 2023

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    That's because you think differently to the majority. It doesn't go well for the folk on here who voice different opinions.

    Have you been accused of having a different opinion just to wind people up? That'll be coming your way, too.
     
    #24
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  5. The Norton Cat

    The Norton Cat Well-Known Member

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    Do you not think that might be because of the jobs for the boys scenario? In the not so distance past, retired footballers were given jobs in football because they didn't have the skills to go in to anything else when they retired. You also have the scenario we have with Keane and which you yourself have bought into- giving people jobs because they're well known names- "I want this fella cos I've never heard of the other fella".
    Give people who haven't played professionally a chance in coaching and they'll show they're as good, if not better, than those that have played professionally. I know plenty of managers in non-league who played professionally but aren't as successful at managing as blokes who never played anywhere near that level.
    Plus, the Pro Licence is hard to get. You need to display significant competence to get it.
     
    #25
  6. The realist

    The realist Active Member

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    Yep had all that.
    After Pompey win I was still adamant Johnson wasn’t man for job, got banned from thread then he’s sacked one game later!
    Couldn’t make it up!
     
    #26
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  7. Saf

    Saf Not606 Godfather+NOT606 Poster of the year 2023

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    <laugh>

    Just be a happy clapper, mate. Agree with everything that folk say, always be ridiculously positive and you'll be alright on here :emoticon-0148-yes:
     
    #27
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  8. sheepman

    sheepman Well-Known Member

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    I get where you're coming from but its a poor argument to hit Speakman with.
    For me doesn't matter where he's come from its what he's done and doing that counts
    He's got an excellent coaching and development record
    Currently I think he's doing OK for you obviously the juries still out. Only time will tell.

    Oh and by the way

    Arsene Wenger
    Gerard Houlier
    Mourinho
    Avaram Grant
    Current man U manager Ralf Ragnick
    Andre Villas- Boas
    Carlos Alberto Parriera - Actually won the world Cup (But I suppose anyone can manage Brazil)
    Maurizio Sari
    Brendan Rodgers
    Tuchel

    Sorry bit of time on my hands today couldn't resist
     
    #28
  9. rooch 3

    rooch 3 Well-Known Member

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    I think you will find there is a lot of lads on here with very rose tinted glasses, I mean there was one daft twat on here who predicted 7-1 to Sunderland on Saturday the tosser.<ok>
     
    #29
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  10. The Norton Cat

    The Norton Cat Well-Known Member

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    There's loads of them. Including very notable ones like Arrigo Sacchi and Bill Struth who won 30 trophies in 34 years at Rangers, when Scottish football wasn't as much of a two horse race.
     
    #30
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  11. Saf

    Saf Not606 Godfather+NOT606 Poster of the year 2023

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    We already know you're a tosser. You didn't have to go and prove it <laugh>

    Nothing wrong with rose tinted glasses but it's not right when people are aliented for not going along with them <ok>
     
    #31
  12. The realist

    The realist Active Member

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    Of course there are exceptions but you do realise I could find 100x more who had playing careers as well.
    Also likes of wenger and ragnick did play professionally.
    I fully accept I may be out of touch and if so time will tell I suppose but I the type of jargon I heard from Johnson, Speakman and now this Dodds character just makes my toes curl.
    Football is still a simple game, get good players with good attitudes playing for you and you’ve got a chance.
     
    #32
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  13. The Norton Cat

    The Norton Cat Well-Known Member

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    I believe Wenger and Rangnick were never more than semi-professional. Although they both played for clubs that have been fully professional they either played for them when they were much further down the football pyramid in their particular countries or weren't full professionals. I could be wrong but I think Wenger may have been signed only on semi-pro terms at RC Strasbourg as he was primarily brought in to coach the youth sides.
    The bit in bold is what I've been saying on here for years, but people either want to ascribe almost magical powers to managers or completely deny that managers do anything. Never the middle point where the truth lies.
     
    #33
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  14. The realist

    The realist Active Member

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    That’s why it’s important for me that managers are in charge of recruitment. They will ultimately live or die by the players at their disposal. I certainly wouldn’t want my job resting on the decisions of others.
     
    #34
  15. Zidane

    Zidane Well-Known Member

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    My only concern with the new setup is that although we all agree a proper long term plan is needed and they have done some fantastic work on that front in my opinion, the short term is not adequately catered for.
     
    #35
  16. The realist

    The realist Active Member

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    Genuine question what great work have they done for the long term?
     
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  17. Zidane

    Zidane Well-Known Member

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    I think bringing the recruitment into the modern age will pay dividends in longer term and we will finally start selling players for more than we pay for them. Contrast that to Shorts time where only one player was sold for more than we paid. See Brentford.

    My original point is that none of that helps now if Trai Hume turns out to be worth £5m in 3 year.
    (And Doyle, Dajaku, Cirkin, Neil, Hoffman etc were not fit for purpose for THIS season if automatic was truly the aim)
     
    #37
  18. The realist

    The realist Active Member

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    The thing is other than Stewart who have we brought in who’s actually ours that we could flog for a profit at this minute?
    It’s all very well saying the model is the right one (although I’m not convinced) but it’s no good if those implementing aren’t doing their job properly.
     
    #38
  19. The Norton Cat

    The Norton Cat Well-Known Member

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    I think if you have a manager then yes, it is important that they do have the final say in recruitment. If you've got a Director of Football or Head of Recruitment model like ours, then the only crucial thing is that the Head Coach can coach. I don't see that it matters that much who brings the players in as long as everyone is happy with the arrangement and the players that are brought in are good players.
     
    #39
  20. samwise_new

    samwise_new Well-Known Member

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    a win on saturday would have bought the club some time but losing to the bottom club, at home, after they were also stuffed in the previous game was too much for the fans.

    i firmly still believe in the long term goal as i believe it will only benefit the club in the long term, we have tried the 'rich owner spending money' approach and also the 'quick fix' approach and look where we are.

    that said, the club should be in a better place by now, the fans have done as much as they can do in that showing of support but they all have a breaking point and my fear is that we are sailing very close to that point and it could take many years to get them back, if ever...the new regime need to use this opportunity to stamp their name into the clubs history and make 'that' appointment that will keep the fans onside and stop this p1ssing about, even a statement that could put them at ease but this 'silent treatment' with important news is really getting stretched now.
     
    #40
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