Sadly, yes. Where we are is about as good as we are, with the squad we have. We’d have a great side in the Championship though, if we could afford to pay their wages.
Match Day Thread Crystal Palace vs Southampton, Weds 15th December, 19:30
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Sadly, yes. Where we are is about as good as we are, with the squad we have. We’d have a great side in the Championship though, if we could afford to pay their wages.
Didn't say that I disagree with that, however you just get excited when you are ahead seeing our name in mid-table but then we don't quite get there! I am happy we are picking up points again, which is important for us to not get cut adrift.
That was a solid -1 points for us there last night. I think that's right. I mean, all that any of the talking heads were talking about was us losing two points from a winning position but they failed to mention us gaining one from a losing position. In the same match! I'm confused though as the league table shows us having gained a point, not dropped one. Maybe stats are useless. On another note, is it just me that turns away and sniggers when Salisu is about to launch a (checks notes) "long throw?"
This from Dan Abrahams, sport psychologist will ring true to most of us who have watched this team play football.
We had been two-nil up inside 20 minutes… We had been cruising! And then the shift happened. The shift of momentum. Front foot quickly became back foot. Freedom dissipated, fear rose. Positive intent became inhibition. Playing to score became anxious about conceding. All of a sudden momentum against. All of a sudden backs against the wall. Momentum is a funny thing. In sport we crave having momentum, but both directions need control. When your team has momentum - momentum-for - staying in control is like riding a bike downhill - exhilarating, a little scary at times, but still the need for steering and brakes. And downhill isn’t permanent…downhill always comes to an end! So there’s always this nagging feeling that you have to get the most when momentum is with you. Momentum-against is cut from a different cloth. It’s like riding a bike uphill. It’s exhausting, and energy sapping, and requires sustained attention to keep pedalling with the same intensity. And so when the team I was working with were two-nil up and a shift of momentum occurred I braced. Could they pedal hard enough to retain a sense of control out-of-possession. Could they keep pedalling hard enough until they reached the top of the hill and then enjoy a period back down the hill? The answer was no. A goal! Two-one. And now that hill became steeper. Ascendance became tougher. Cortisol flowing through the heart of the team caused many of the players to experience tunnel-vision. They became slower to anticipate, and exhibited a sense of panic in with simple-to-make decisions. Wave after wave of attack from the opposition. Relentless! And then finally, a goal! On the stroke of half-time two-two. And so the players trudged off for half-time (the opposition bounced off - testosterone injected into their bloodstream and dopamine filling every pore!!) Half-time in the dressing room…dejection. And that’s where, to this day, quite a few years later, I regret not saying it. I should have said it…I really should have said it… “Gaffer. Don’t let them sit down. Not yet. Keep them standing. Let them take their drinks standing. Address them while they stand. Don’t let them contract their bodies further. Keep them up while you lift them up with your words, with your tactics, with your positivity. Keep them up gaffer - we can do this.” But of course I didn’t. And they sat. And they contracted. And they slumped. And the cycle wasn’t broken. You see, the body is a weapon. Sure, it’s cliche to say that body language matters…but at the granular level it really, really does. The body is a weapon. Posture, actions, gestures, breathing…from head to toes…players (people) can use their body as a weapon to influence how they feel at any given moment. What does the latest science say? It’s not so much ‘have positive body language’. It’s more ‘avoid letting your body contract.’ Have your players hold high. Insist on gestures that help. Have them take action. But never let them contract!
don’t know if he’s working with Saints at the moment but he should be!
We had been two-nil up inside 20 minutes… We had been cruising! And then the shift happened. The shift of momentum. Front foot quickly became back foot. Freedom dissipated, fear rose. Positive intent became inhibition. Playing to score became anxious about conceding. All of a sudden momentum against. All of a sudden backs against the wall. Momentum is a funny thing. In sport we crave having momentum, but both directions need control. When your team has momentum - momentum-for - staying in control is like riding a bike downhill - exhilarating, a little scary at times, but still the need for steering and brakes. And downhill isn’t permanent…downhill always comes to an end! So there’s always this nagging feeling that you have to get the most when momentum is with you. Momentum-against is cut from a different cloth. It’s like riding a bike uphill. It’s exhausting, and energy sapping, and requires sustained attention to keep pedalling with the same intensity. And so when the team I was working with were two-nil up and a shift of momentum occurred I braced. Could they pedal hard enough to retain a sense of control out-of-possession. Could they keep pedalling hard enough until they reached the top of the hill and then enjoy a period back down the hill? The answer was no. A goal! Two-one. And now that hill became steeper. Ascendance became tougher. Cortisol flowing through the heart of the team caused many of the players to experience tunnel-vision. They became slower to anticipate, and exhibited a sense of panic in with simple-to-make decisions. Wave after wave of attack from the opposition. Relentless! And then finally, a goal! On the stroke of half-time two-two. And so the players trudged off for half-time (the opposition bounced off - testosterone injected into their bloodstream and dopamine filling every pore!!) Half-time in the dressing room…dejection. And that’s where, to this day, quite a few years later, I regret not saying it. I should have said it…I really should have said it… “Gaffer. Don’t let them sit down. Not yet. Keep them standing. Let them take their drinks standing. Address them while they stand. Don’t let them contract their bodies further. Keep them up while you lift them up with your words, with your tactics, with your positivity. Keep them up gaffer - we can do this.” But of course I didn’t. And they sat. And they contracted. And they slumped. And the cycle wasn’t broken. You see, the body is a weapon. Sure, it’s cliche to say that body language matters…but at the granular level it really, really does. The body is a weapon. Posture, actions, gestures, breathing…from head to toes…players (people) can use their body as a weapon to influence how they feel at any given moment. What does the latest science say? It’s not so much ‘have positive body language’. It’s more ‘avoid letting your body contract.’ Have your players hold high. Insist on gestures that help. Have them take action. But never let them contract!
don’t know if he’s working with Saints at the moment but he should be!
My contribution of 10 days ago. I think I am saying almost the same thing.
There is a fundamental flaw in our game plan it seems to me. After we scored yesterday and on previous occasions it seems our players slow the tempo of their game right down and actually start wasting time at goal kicks and throw ins etc. This takes the urgency and pace out of their game and they start to lose the intensity of the press. They also start losing concentration and give the ball away far too often, this happened far too many times yesterday. If this is a part of the game plan and is to conserve energy it is not working. We have been crediting other manages with tactical changes that we can't cope with but the problem is of our own making. If this is not our game plan but the players have decided to play to hang on to the lead, to hold what they have because of a lack of confidence then that needs sorting. As it stands our results are probably harming our players confidence and turning some of the fans against the players and Ralph.
As it stands we can't keep dropping crucial points or we will be in the ****.
There is a fundamental flaw in our game plan it seems to me. After we scored yesterday and on previous occasions it seems our players slow the tempo of their game right down and actually start wasting time at goal kicks and throw ins etc. This takes the urgency and pace out of their game and they start to lose the intensity of the press. They also start losing concentration and give the ball away far too often, this happened far too many times yesterday. If this is a part of the game plan and is to conserve energy it is not working. We have been crediting other manages with tactical changes that we can't cope with but the problem is of our own making. If this is not our game plan but the players have decided to play to hang on to the lead, to hold what they have because of a lack of confidence then that needs sorting. As it stands our results are probably harming our players confidence and turning some of the fans against the players and Ralph.
As it stands we can't keep dropping crucial points or we will be in the ****.
Holding off the REVERSE THE MECHANISM thread until we know if we have a game...
Are there any checks or validations required for these games to be called off due to tests
There doesn’t seem to be
I’d wonder whether there was some gaming of the system going on in some cases. For example Brentford also have loads of injuries
But they may now have to squeeze two more games in
You could see Newcastle trying to stall until new signings come in . And there were mutterings about the Ragnick wanting more time on the training pitch. But then that was closed.
Guess I am just being too cynical. And am sure we would say the same if some of our players key were out. Although they are but apparently normal injuries don’t count (I know it is infectious but if the available players all test negative …)
But Brentford are missing their talisman and two goalkeepers so it isn’t exactly surprising that now is not the best time for them to play
There doesn’t seem to be
I’d wonder whether there was some gaming of the system going on in some cases. For example Brentford also have loads of injuries
But they may now have to squeeze two more games in
You could see Newcastle trying to stall until new signings come in . And there were mutterings about the Ragnick wanting more time on the training pitch. But then that was closed.
Guess I am just being too cynical. And am sure we would say the same if some of our players key were out. Although they are but apparently normal injuries don’t count (I know it is infectious but if the available players all test negative …)
But Brentford are missing their talisman and two goalkeepers so it isn’t exactly surprising that now is not the best time for them to play
TBH, I am more to blame than Ralph for not winning last night's game. 
We didn't really deserve to win based on the balance of play. Palace came into this game off the back of a convincing win against Everton. The different levels of confidence certainly showed for the first 30 minutes last night. Then JWP sticks a free kick in the top corner - an excellent way to boost confidence and it showed as we ended the first half really strongly. Palace were the better team in the 2nd half but weren't exactly relentless with their pressure. Slightly annoying we didn't win but more pleased we didn't lose. Tough ground to visit when you're low on confidence.
We didn't really deserve to win based on the balance of play. Palace came into this game off the back of a convincing win against Everton. The different levels of confidence certainly showed for the first 30 minutes last night. Then JWP sticks a free kick in the top corner - an excellent way to boost confidence and it showed as we ended the first half really strongly. Palace were the better team in the 2nd half but weren't exactly relentless with their pressure. Slightly annoying we didn't win but more pleased we didn't lose. Tough ground to visit when you're low on confidence.
Although that applied in a different way last night. We not only didn’t slow down after scoring, we went and scored again! Then we more than held our own until the end of the first half. I think where panic sets in is when the players know they are about to come under pressure, as they inevitably did in the second half, up to the point Ayew scored (thanks Tom). After that we actually got better again, but Long and Walcott couldn’t capitalise on our chances.
The failure to deal with pressure is our biggest issue, and failure to coach the players out of that mindset is Ralph’s biggest flaw as a manager. He badly needs an assistant, or a psychologist as SaintinNZ suggests above, who can take on that role, as the headless chicken syndrome is killing us.
Having said that, scoring a few more goals would greatly help too!
The first goal yesterday was Salisu playing a hospital pass (you could also blame Redmond/KWP as we had the ball just outside their box and went all the way back rather than trying to attack)
Second goal was partly Livramento, partly other defenders being ****. I agree he isn’t the best defensively but he also isn’t terrible. Need to see more of Perraud to know whether it should be him and KWP when we need to be more solid at the back
That’s a good piece.
Picking up on the line where it says “many of the players experience tunnel vision”.
This I find is happening with an increasing regularity, this season, and is most obvious when one of our full backs is facing up to the man on the ball just outside the corner of our penalty area.
So often this season I have seen (using random names as examples) KWP fronting up to the winger, Redmond dropping back to cover and help, only for Romeu or JWP to also come over and create a 3 on 1 situation. And whilst we have 3 on 1, all watching the ball, an opposing midfielder runs into the space behind them, unmarked, who then receives the ball with time and space to pick out crosses.
If I remember correctly the first Liverpool goal was like this, with Robertson running free.
Actually a point a game will cut it most seasons (I think, haven’t actually looked). 38 points would keep you up most years i’d imagine and that is all we can really hope for with the investment levels in comparison to other teams
But a lot of draws with twice as many losses than wins and you are on slippery ground, that's my point. If we had managed to win just 3 of those draws (I think we were most likely to be leading in most of the 8 at some point) we would be comfortably in the top 10, 12 points clear of the bottom 3.
I think it's a collective mental block with the team, we don't believe that we can hang on to the lead and therefore it becomes a self fulfilling prophesy. You have to foster a winning mentality and i'm with Chilcs maybe a sports psychologist is the answer.
I would be hoping that we are aiming for more than 38 points this season as that would signal regression despite having a deeper squad and not so many of the problems that occured last season.
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Probably is partly confidence, but its also a lack of quality. Teams tend to up their game when they go behind, we can’t handle it as we just aren’t very good compared to majority of teams in the league.
Why the former rather than the latter? Surely having **** players would mean it happens all the time too
It’s almost certainly a combination of both
I differ in my opinion of the squad's quality to you I expect, We finished 11th two years ago with probably less depth than we have now.
I think 11-14th is a reasonable target personally for this season.
I also think it's too much of a coincidence that we usually start better, why would the oppo not start as well some of the the time?.
The majority of this board thought that it was a pretty decent summer window.
In my opinion we start well as we are well drilled on the training pitch. We start fast and the other team (usually) struggle to cope. They then figure us out a bit, we tire, their quality starts to shine through in comparison to ours, they come back into it.
Whilst our depth might be better than 2 years ago I don’t think our best 11 is, plus with the added investment in that time from other teams we have fallen behind teams we would’ve been competing with then in a financial sense
Or to look at it another way. Had we lost a few of those drawn games, we would be cemented in the bottom 3. But by drawing, we've pulled ourselves 6 point clear. If, would, could, should. We are where we are. It's not brilliant, but equally not disastrous.
For me Ralph had his hands tied in his first two seasons whilst we offloaded high earning, long contract players, blooding youngsters too soon when they weren't really ready. This is the first season in which he has had 'his' squad and one with a reasonable amount of depth. At the moment, (IMO) this is a top 10 squad that is underperforming. Largely because they are still adjusting to EPL and/or Saints style of play. I'm very optimistic that a couple of decent results over Christmas will give us a platform for a good second half to the season. It's all about confidence and self belief at the minute which is a bit fragile. Evidenced yesterday by the dejection at 0-1 and the confident almost cocky play leading to 2-1