Farke Sacked // Smith appointed

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RiverEndRick said:
Trying to sieve through all of the rumours, it would seem that there could now be three candidates, with Dean Smith coming into the frame after Mike Bailey's two man list claim. It's always possible that there's a dark horse nobody but SW knows about. I'm tending to lean towards Smith now because SW thinks long term and wants more than just a coach. I think he gets gets dismissed as promoting not tactically advanced football, whereas he actually did a pretty amazing job at Villa and had them playing exceptional football at times. I’d also argue that without Dean Smith, Brentford certainly wouldn’t be in the PL this season. He bought them on leaps and bounds when he was manager there, and set in place a lot of the ideals that they still follow. If those ideals coincide with SW's, then he could well be the choice. The question is whether either Lampard or Knutsen would stay on if we're relegated. I think Smith would
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I think criticising Dean Smith’s tactical approach is exceptionally harsh. He pretty much made Brentford the team they are and he transformed a horrific to watch Villa side into one which actually plays pretty good football, at least by comparison to what came before. I think they didn’t always look great because their play was, understandably, so focused on Grealish - and that ends up looking a bit unbalanced. But he is definitely a modern style manager and would suit us, in my opinion for what it’s worth.
 
I'm more confident that we will stay up now after the Farke sacking.

I would rather have Lampard than the guy doing well in Norway or Rusty.


He would probably use us as a stepping stone to a bigger gig but he was an excellent player for Chelsea and England and knows the Premier league.

Cantwell & Gilmore would be like new signings
 
Sorry, Rick and Rob, but I can't agree with you about Smith.

One of the limitations of Farke as a manager was his dependence on one player, and when Emi didn't play, we were a shadow of the team we were when he was on the pitch. Exactly the same was true about Smith. Grealish in the team, he did fine. No Grealish, they struggled. Without him, in their promotion season, they were midtable and going nowhere before he came back. Smith had no idea how to get the side functioning without him. And yes, while Smith did keep them up in the following season, this was due to an outrageous failure on the part of goal line technology. Villa were unbelievably lucky to survive. So I'd take Farke back rather than choose Smith because I think Farke has achieved more given the resources he had at his disposal and the relative position of the clubs when they were taken on as managers.
 
GozoCanary said:
Sorry, Rick and Rob, but I can't agree with you about Smith.

One of the limitations of Farke as a manager was his dependence on one player, and when Emi didn't play, we were a shadow of the team we were when he was on the pitch. Exactly the same was true about Smith. Grealish in the team, he did fine. No Grealish, they struggled. Without him, in their promotion season, they were midtable and going nowhere before he came back. Smith had no idea how to get the side functioning without him. And yes, while Smith did keep them up in the following season, this was due to an outrageous failure on the part of goal line technology. Villa were unbelievably lucky to survive. So I'd take Farke back rather than choose Smith because I think Farke has achieved more given the resources he had at his disposal and the relative position of the clubs when they were taken on as managers.
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I don't think we are far apart here, actually. Personally, I would have preferred Farke to continue anyway though clearly that is not an option! So we are talking about the next best thing.

I take your point about the Buendia/Grealish comparison, but Grealish is worth £100m - he was more valuable to Aston Villa relatively speaking. So you're not wrong, but equally I do not put as much weight on that.

I also think looking at Smith's Villa performance is not the entire story - I think his time at Brentford also needs to be considered. He has a standing record at two clubs of restoring confidence to an underperforming squad and getting a team to play attractive football on a shoestring budget, relatively speaking (the latter does not refer to Villa!)

So look, yes, he comes with risks, not perfect, but personally I do not think his efforts with Villa represent a big warning red flag to me.
 
Canary Rob said:
I don't think we are far apart here, actually. Personally, I would have preferred Farke to continue anyway though clearly that is not an option! So we are talking about the next best thing.

I take your point about the Buendia/Grealish comparison, but Grealish is worth £100m - he was more valuable to Aston Villa relatively speaking. So you're not wrong, but equally I do not put as much weight on that.

I also think looking at Smith's Villa performance is not the entire story - I think his time at Brentford also needs to be considered. He has a standing record at two clubs of restoring confidence to an underperforming squad and getting a team to play attractive football on a shoestring budget, relatively speaking (the latter does not refer to Villa!)

So look, yes, he comes with risks, not perfect, but personally I do not think his efforts with Villa represent a big warning red flag to me.
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My vote would be for Knutsen, although I recognise what a huge risk this would be, especially since I keep reading about his gung-ho approach and how he takes the game to the opposition, which might work in the Norwegian league but could be suicide in the Prem.

EDIT: Just read my post back and realised I talked about why I shouldn't go for Knutsen, but no word about why I will. Basically, I think our confidence is shot and we need a motivator, someone who can instil that almost instantly, in the way that Lambert could, if we are to have any chance of surviving this season.
 
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Why on earth would Knutsen want to come at this juncture? By 13th December he is likely to have secured both his league title and European Championship football. Can anyone really envisage him giving all that up to take over our struggling club?
 
Robbie BB said:
Why on earth would Knutsen want to come at this juncture? By 13th December he is likely to have secured both his league title and European Championship football. Can anyone really envisage him giving all that up to take over our struggling club?
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You may well be right, Robbie. Depressing if you are. Since effing Brexit means we can no longer gamble on promising managers from Europe at the start of their careers, we're stuck with someone like Lampard desperate for one last chance to prove he can manage and then dumping us immediately if it turns out he can, or a cast of second-rate home-grown wannabes from the managerial merry-go-round.
 
Robbie BB said:
Why on earth would Knutsen want to come at this juncture? By 13th December he is likely to have secured both his league title and European Championship football. Can anyone really envisage him giving all that up to take over our struggling club?
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The club is not struggling. The team maybe
 
GozoCanary said:
You may well be right, Robbie. Depressing if you are. Since effing Brexit means we can no longer gamble on promising managers from Europe at the start of their careers, we're stuck with someone like Lampard desperate for one last chance to prove he can manage and then dumping us immediately if it turns out he can, or a cast of second-rate home-grown wannabes from the managerial merry-go-round.
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The rules are not quite as stringent as you suggest Gozo. But DF would not have qualified, nor would his backroom team. The top Norwegian league is in Band 5.
"The qualifying criteria for managers are simpler than those for players: 24 months consecutively or 36 months over the past five years working in any competition from band 1 to band 5. You also need a Uefa Pro licence and proof your English is good enough to, among other things, “describe experiences and events, dreams, hopes & ambitions and briefly give reasons and explanations for opinions and plans”. (Guardian article summarising the post-Brexit position).
 
carrowcanario said:
The club is not struggling. The team maybe
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Given that it is the club, not the team, which is the member of the EPL, and the club whose target it is to be among the top 17 clubs in England, I'd say the club is indeed struggling, both to retain the one and meet the other. In many other respects the club is not struggling, I agree.
 
Robbie BB said:
The rules are not quite as stringent as you suggest Gozo. But DF would not have qualified, nor would his backroom team. The top Norwegian league is in Band 5.
"The qualifying criteria for managers are simpler than those for players: 24 months consecutively or 36 months over the past five years working in any competition from band 1 to band 5. You also need a Uefa Pro licence and proof your English is good enough to, among other things, “describe experiences and events, dreams, hopes & ambitions and briefly give reasons and explanations for opinions and plans”. (Guardian article summarising the post-Brexit position).
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Bielsa wouldn’t get a job in England then
 
SuffolkCanary said:
Bielsa wouldn’t get a job in England then
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The Guardian article used Bielsa as an illustration of the effect of the new rules; he would not have qualified had the rules been in operation when he was appointed.
 
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Robbie BB said:
Why on earth would Knutsen want to come at this juncture? By 13th December he is likely to have secured both his league title and European Championship football. Can anyone really envisage him giving all that up to take over our struggling club?
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I guess the argument to put to him is that he'll be remembered for masterminding the campaign regardless, might as well leave when everyone is convinced you'd achieve it anyway (regardless of actual outcome), and take the sensible career move that's available.
 
Robbie BB said:
The rules are not quite as stringent as you suggest Gozo. But DF would not have qualified, nor would his backroom team. The top Norwegian league is in Band 5.
"The qualifying criteria for managers are simpler than those for players: 24 months consecutively or 36 months over the past five years working in any competition from band 1 to band 5. You also need a Uefa Pro licence and proof your English is good enough to, among other things, “describe experiences and events, dreams, hopes & ambitions and briefly give reasons and explanations for opinions and plans”. (Guardian article summarising the post-Brexit position).
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Knutsen is also coaching in the Europa Conference League (whatever that is) which would give him some extra points to get past the Brexit rules.
 
We took advantage of cheap German players who mainly did well , but 4 years after the Farke experiment " All the Germans " other than Rupp have been sent packing as they aren't good enough, Rupp isn't exactly a star player.

All our new signings are Internationals or home grown British talent.

I personally don't see that as a negative and will no doubt improve our National side as Premier league sides are forced to have a quota of homegrown players in the squad.

Win win unless you are a 3rd division German player looking for a pay day in England.
 
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GozoCanary said:
Like Bart Simpson on his blackboard ... I will not get involved in an argument about Brexit ... I will not get involved in an argument about Brexit ... I will not get involved in an argument about Brexit ...
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Sorry it's a Golden rule not to mix politics with football it always ends in tears .

It just amused me that of all industries we are debating the lack of diversity in players managers and owners in the Premier league.

If we were a Championship club strapped for cash then I would be grumbling about red tape in signing European players.

If i was an up and coming academy player I would probably be grateful for less competition from abroad.
 
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DUNCAN DONUTS said:
Sorry it's a Golden rule not to mix politics with football it always ends in tears .

It just amused me that of all industries we are debating the lack of diversity in players managers and owners in the Premier league.

If we were a Championship club strapped for cash then I would be grumbling about red tape in signing European players.

If i was an up and coming academy player I would probably be grateful for less competition from abroad.
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All four comments fair enough.
 
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