HOW LONG DO WE GIVE HIM ?

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GozoCanary said:
I may be wrong (I often am!), but I have a feeling that this Todd issue is having a seriously negative effect on the squad and I wish it could be sorted one way or the other because I worry it's spreading out beyond Todd into other members of the squad. Why play Omo at LB when you have two specialist LBs, one of whom is an up-and-coming 'star' from MU and the other is an established Greek international? It doesn't seem to make any sense and the only explanation I can think of is a split between Farke and several of the squad (but maybe I'm just dramatising and there's a perfectly logical reason?????)
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None of us are privy to the drama with Cantwell and his personal issues but I very much believe Tod pushed Farke and wants out.

Many businesses have slumps and people are shuffled around but that rarely works out in football.

Both Adams and Gunn have stayed around the club after sackings and I don't want Farke to leave .

Something is horribly wrong and needs fixing.

I would hate to see Farke fired Cantwell to return and then just leave anyway which is the most likely outcome.

Brentford is becoming another big game , win and it could save our season lose and we are heading towards 21 games without a win losing 19.

In a performance businesses that simply isn't good enough .
 
GozoCanary said:
To be honest, I'm surprised by that survey - when was it conducted? It seems that there is a massive difference between the various social sites (YouTube, Twitter, FB, etc) and press outlets like the PinkUn. I would estimate that the split was at least 90-10 on the former, and I promise I'm not saying this to serve any personal agenda. It seems the Farke-out feeling may not be as nearly universal as I had supposed.
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The Pinkun survey is still running. I've just checked and the figures are still a 54%/46% split. My guess would be that there's an age differential involved. YouTube, Twitter, FB, etc. are likely to be skewed to younger, more impatient fans whereas the Pinkun is likely to spread across the whole age range. It would be interesting to see a detailed breakdown of season ticket holders by age but my guess would be the younger fans are concentrated in the Barclay and Snake Pit with the other three stands skewed to a higher age range. That's a very crude indicator, but it could suggest the difference.
 
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DUNCAN DONUTS said:
None of us are privy to the drama with Cantwell and his personal issues but I very much believe Tod pushed Farke and wants out.

Many businesses have slumps and people are shuffled around but that rarely works out in football.

Both Adams and Gunn have stayed around the club after sackings and I don't want Farke to leave .

Something is horribly wrong and needs fixing.

I would hate to see Farke fired Cantwell to return and then just leave anyway which is the most likely outcome.

Brentford is becoming another big game , win and it could save our season lose and we are heading towards 21 games without a win losing 19.

In a performance businesses that simply isn't good enough .
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That much is definitely true. And I agree that Cantwell is probably going to leave anyway, most likely in January. The club are doubtless worried that his value will plummet if there is open proof of a rift between him and the club, but the current speculation really isn't helping anyone either. Cantwell gets a reputation for being 'difficult' meaning top clubs are less likely to come in for him, NCFC have to lower their valuation by a large amount if they sell, and meanwhile the uncertainty seems to be having a terrible effect on squad unity.
Of course, the club comes first, and they should protect themselves even if this needs to be at the expense of Farke or Cantwell or both.
 
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Michael Bailey has an article in The Athletic today entitled "Where is Todd Cantwell?" Maybe his next one will be "Whatever has befallen Jacob Sørensen?"
 
Robbie BB said:
Michael Bailey has an article in The Athletic today entitled "Where is Todd Cantwell?" Maybe his next one will be "Whatever has befallen Jacob Sørensen?"
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Signed a new 3+1 deal at the start of the season and apparently well thought of at the club. I know he was one of the late sufferers of covid and it was said to have effected him more severely than others but he has been deemed fit enough for the bench several times, but didn’t feature on the bench this weekend.
 
Am I the only one in favour of players that aren’t in match day squads featuring for the u23s to help keep them match fit. Tzolis looked so rusty after being thrown in at the end of the Leeds game, I can’t help but think it would benefit the players to be ticking over with game time. I k ow there would be a risk to injury but as they aren’t playing anyway what would be the loss, also might help the confidence.
Players in thinking about are people like Mumba, Sorensen, Tzolis, Rupp, Idah. Maybe they can then come into the team with a momentum.
 
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Robbie BB said:
Michael Bailey has an article in The Athletic today entitled "Where is Todd Cantwell?" Maybe his next one will be "Whatever has befallen Jacob Sørensen?"
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It reaffirmed my belief that it's a non-story, much as journalists (and perhaps Cantwell) want to intimate otherwise.

I don't think Farke requiring someone to train for a full two weeks without injury breaks as a minimum requirement for the matchday squad is a ridiculous demand? When creative midfielders aren't getting many opportunities due to formation, it's unfair on Dowell, Rashica, etc who have trained consistently, and there's only so many spots in the matchday squad for that type of player.

Interesting that there was confirmation in the article that he'll play for the U23s and not the first team this weekend. Hopefully he comes through the U23s game ok, trains well through the international break, and is into first team squad for the games after.
 
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Phew! Just read the Farke piece in the PinkUn. 'He is not even close at the minute.' Strong stuff, Daniel. Was that a 'back me or sack me on this' message to his bosses, especially since it coincided with another speech in which he reminds us all how far we have progressed under his management? Or a message to Cantwell? 'Toe the line or else.' Or, to quote Blackadder, 'Who's Queen?'

This doesn't seem helpful at all and it threatens to be inflammatory. I wonder if Cantwell will respond? And if so, how?

Whatever happens next, it's unlikely to benefit our club.

EDIT: You can accuse me of dramatising this, and perhaps I am - but this seems a serious split rather than something whipped up by the media. Who knows what the truth is and where any blame lies? But there is one indisputable fact - for each of the last three seasons we have had personal clashes which have had a negative outcome on the pitch - Leitner, Cantwell/Buendia, and Cantwell again this season. Creative players are often hard to manage, and perhaps we have been unlucky in having more than our share of 'difficult' players. Or perhaps we have a manager who is incapable of handling them.
 
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It's difficult to know what is actually involved. Leitner was different, because he, like Trybull, was not considered PL quality and their places were needed for better players for the future. My impression was that the Cantwell/Buendia problem last season was well handled by SW and DF and both players were an important part of our promotion season. Aarons was another who could have expressed his disappointment about not getting a transfer to a big club, but he was very professional about it.

Whether Cantwell is now resenting not getting a transfer is hard to tell, but it could be something very different. The only thing we know is that he hasn't been doing enough training to be considered for selection. If he was selected at the expense of Rashica or Dowell, then that could well affect team morale. We'll just have to wait and see.
 
I saw a rumour that Cantwell no longer has a locker in the first team dressing room, following a clash with Farke.

I can easily believe it? Which I guess is why rumours spread...
 
I blame Oliviera for Farke's no nonsense coaching, his first game as a professional coach and Nelson came off the bench scored and ripped his shirt off getting in Farke's face for not starting him.

The relationship became very frosty after that , Drmic was told to train on his own last season until being banished .

Credit to Cantwell for playing in the U23s but Mumba started too and nobody is accusing Farke of freezing him out , Josh Martin was doing well but deemed not ready yet .
I'm guessing Tod has made it clear probably after advice from his agent that he wants a move .

Farke doesn't want to play him if it's just about him advertising to potential suitors.

It's also not fair to Rashica Tzolis Dowell etc who have the right attitude in training but lose their place to him.

This soap opera drama is not good for the club and teams wanting Cantwell can exploit the situation.
 
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The truth is none of us know what is really going on. For example I heard his Grandad passed away which is why he was away for personal reasons and now he is struggling to get back to fitness after picking up several niggley injuries.
I didn’t watch the u23s last night, how did he look for them, match fit?
I think we should give both Farke and Cantwell the benefit of the doubt for now.
 
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RiverEndRick said:
It's difficult to know what is actually involved. Leitner was different, because he, like Trybull, was not considered PL quality and their places were needed for better players for the future. My impression was that the Cantwell/Buendia problem last season was well handled by SW and DF and both players were an important part of our promotion season. Aarons was another who could have expressed his disappointment about not getting a transfer to a big club, but he was very professional about it.

Whether Cantwell is now resenting not getting a transfer is hard to tell, but it could be something very different. The only thing we know is that he hasn't been doing enough training to be considered for selection. If he was selected at the expense of Rashica or Dowell, then that could well affect team morale. We'll just have to wait and see.
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I don't agree with Robbie about much, Rick, but on the issue of Leitner, I'm with Robbie. I think Leitner is a very talented player indeed and we lost a lot when he was frozen out in our last Prem season. Pukki deservedly got the credit for his hat-trick against Newcastle, but he scored his goals because Leitner totally bossed that match, setting the pace, rhythm and tone from midfield. Against Liverpool two games earlier, when he came on at 4-0 down we were suddenly Liverpool's equals. OK, so this rich vein of form didn't continue over the next few games, but soon he pissed off Farke somehow and ended up in Outer *****lia, so we'll never know how much he could have contributed to that season if his head had been in the right place and he'd been given a chance to play. So when I hear people say he was not Prem class, but apparently McLean and Sargent are, I beg to differ. He was wasted that season.

You're right that the Cantwell/Buendia situation was handled well, but my reading of this is that Webber pulled rank and took over because he knew that the club needed Buendia to have any chance of getting promoted again. He cut the deal that kept the two players at the club and trying their best. IMO, left to Farke, the situation would just have dragged on in the way that the Leitner situation did the season before and the Cantwell situation has this year.

Yes, Aarons has been fantastically professional and adult for someone of his tender years, but look at his performances this year. They're not poor - it's hard to imagine him having a poor game - but he doesn't look happy at all. He was a big part of that young generation that suddenly blossomed in 18/19, so if there is an issue between Farke and Cantwell, he'll know about it and he'll be affected by it, much as he might try not to be. So IMO team morale is already more or less rock-bottom whoever gets selected.
 
Leitner is a good passer and reader of the game, but he offered next to nothing defensively which is why he isn't a PL quality player IMO. We got back into the game at Liverpool because they were 4 goals up and went into see the game out mode.

Lots of supposition in your take on the Cantwell and Buendia situation. In our system, it's SW's responsibility to deal with contractual issues, not the Head Coach's. If there is still a contractual issue with Todd, it is SW who deals with that. IMO it's the rumours and speculation that are more likely to cause problems.

As for Aarons, I haven't seen any indication of drop in morale, even given the run of results we're having.
 
RiverEndRick said:
Leitner is a good passer and reader of the game, but he offered next to nothing defensively which is why he isn't a PL quality player IMO. We got back into the game at Liverpool because they were 4 goals up and went into see the game out mode.

Lots of supposition in your take on the Cantwell and Buendia situation. In our system, it's SW's responsibility to deal with contractual issues, not the Head Coach's. If there is still a contractual issue with Todd, it is SW who deals with that. IMO it's the rumours and speculation that are more likely to cause problems.

As for Aarons, I haven't seen any indication of drop in morale, even given the run of results we're having.
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You seem to be saying that players like Xavi and Iniesta would not have done well in the Prem. You may be right. A lot of their play was based on using their superior technical ability to shield the ball and invite fouls: in the more 'robust' atmosphere of the Prem, many refs would just wave play on. And the Prem has moved on a lot since the days when Xavi & Iniesta dominated European football. Of course, I'm not placing Leitner anywhere near to Xavi and Iniesta in terms of ability, but I think at his best and at a lower level he was the same kind of player: someone who would control the pace and the flow of the game from midfield. Maybe that kind of player is outdated now, since Spanish teams are no longer dominating the Champions League in the way they did. The faster, more physical approach of the PL seems to have taken over. And maybe I'm just a bit grumpy because I prefer the Spanish style.

I accept there is a lot of supposition on my part regarding the Buendia/Cantwell situation, but I think it's clear that the reaction to Cantwell this season has been radically different from the reaction when Emi was also involved because Cantwell is not essential to our plans this season.

On the last point, I disagree. I think Aarons has been noticeably poorer this season, but let me add that is from a very high starting point. Nor do I think it is a conscious 'drop in morale'. I simply think you can't perform at your best in any job if the atmosphere you work in is not harmonious.

PS: After today's game, I don't think those players on the pitch were not playing for Farke. He may have issues with certain individuals - I don't know - but judging by the fight they showed today, he hasn't lost the dressing room. Thank God!
 
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