question for athiests

[BoleynAli]

Just thought I'd throw my oar in. As an atheist, I always thought the word derived from the Greek, a- meaning without and theos meaning god and took it to mean the theory or belief that god, in the biblical sense, does not exist. I believe religion, all denominations, was an invention of the ruling class designed to keep the masses in their place when, millennia ago, we started asking awkward questions like, "Where do we come from?".
In answer to the original posting, could atheists explain their theories on the beginning of creation? Yes, we were not created in the sense you have used the word, i.e., by a deity but by a random series of events involving physics, elements etc.

 

[Craigo]

Its the God bit we are both having difficulty with imo

I think maybe the image of god is the problem here. As i said to me 'god' just means creator NOT a bloke in a white robe with a big beard ala the current biblical description

What I am saying in this thread is that something caused the universe to exist, that cause is the creator

That would have been a much more reasonable question and may I suggest; 'Something caused the universe to exist. What was the cause?' This removes all connection with religion or a mythical creator and opens up the possibilities to more feasable things like chemical reactions, explosions etc.

 

[thefanwithnoname]

And you've yet to back this claim up with any evidence.
Why do you assume that the energy that makes up this universe had a start?

As i have said consistently nothing is derived from nothing
that includes energy

I have yet to see something that has come from nothing

 

[BoleynAli]

oh, and it's ketchup on chips, brown sauce on everything else. A mate of mine used to pour salad cream on his, nasty!!

 

[thefanwithnoname]

1) I thought you were Asian?

2) How does having a big dong equate to fitness?

3) Why would a child having a big dong prevent cot-death?

well if survival of the fittest was true, all children should not make puberty.
as is there anything mores susceptible to the elements etc than a baby?

 

[Sam Axe]

Mayo on chips?

Mayo on a curry chip

 

[Craigo]

Just thought I'd throw my oar in. As an atheist, I always thought the word derived from the Greek, a- meaning without and theos meaning god and took it to mean the theory or belief that god, in the biblical sense, does not exist. I believe religion, all denominations, was an invention of the ruling class designed to keep the masses in their place when, millennia ago, we started asking awkward questions like, "Where do we come from?".
In answer to the original posting, could atheists explain their theories on the beginning of creation? Yes, we were not created in the sense you have used the word, i.e., by a deity but by a random series of events involving physics, elements etc.

I agree with that, but in my opinion religion was created to give uncivilised people a moral compass before laws were invented. Once laws came into being religion should have died a natural death, but because people are corrupt the churches, temples, mosques and synagogues remained because basically god, heaven and hell are good products and as we all know good products make money.

 

[PleaseNotPoll]

you mentioned my faith, i just want to know the relevance

I mentioned the definition of what god was and said that your definition was implied by your own religion.

existed how?

What do you mean, existed how?
Were in existence.

so it needs a creator?

A painting needs to be painted, yes.

I'll stop you there.
You're going with the watchmaker analogy.
A theory that's been kicked to death so many times in the past that it's hard to believe that anyone still brings it up.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watchmaker_analogy

yes I have. natural selection theory doesnt fit evolution of the eye.

Yes, it does and I've already shown you that you're wrong about this.
Would you like me to link to other sites that'll tell you how wrong you are?

I disagree and I have explained early in the thread what it signified

No, you didn't.
You changed the phrasing completely.

ahh the let the semantics begin
origins of the universe better?

See?

well can athiesm exist if there was no god?
what was it you said about the unknowable before?

Atheism would exist, as people wouldn't believe in a god or gods, but nobody would know that they were an atheist.
It would be a redundant term.

I said that some religions claim that god is unknowable.

 

[Erik]

oh, and it's ketchup on chips, brown sauce on everything else. A mate of mine used to pour salad cream on his, nasty!!

Went to Scarborough once as a kid and saw a pregnant woman walk into a chippy and get a bag of chips, then into the corner shop next door and come out with a pot of double-cream. Awful, awful stuff.

well if survival of the fittest was true, all children should not make puberty.
as is there anything mores susceptible to the elements etc than a baby?

You, sir, are a veritable dunce.

 

[thefanwithnoname]

You dont know what "survival of the fittest" means do you?

depends are we looking at when darwin first coined the phrase or beforehand as in Herbert Spencer?

I meant from darwin which was a metaphor

"better adapted for immediate, local environment"

babies should be fubar'd surely?

 

[PleaseNotPoll]

As i have said consistently nothing is derived from nothing
that includes energy

I have yet to see something that has come from nothing

You've yet to explain why it's come from anywhere, rather than just existing.

 

[SUPERNORWICH 23]

Did anyone actually do this before Pulp Fiction?

I had it in France about 1988, **** frozen long chips in a stick with mayo...... Good

 

[thefanwithnoname]

I mentioned the definition of what god was and said that your definition was implied by your own religion.

so telling me my religion?

What do you mean, existed how?
Were in existence.

where did they come form, were they 'majicked'?


A painting needs to be painted, yes.

so created?

I'll stop you there.
You're going with the watchmaker analogy.
A theory that's been kicked to death so many times in the past that it's hard to believe that anyone still brings it up.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watchmaker_analogy



Yes, it does and I've already shown you that you're wrong about this.
Would you like me to link to other sites that'll tell you how wrong you are?

no it doesnt. I want you to explain it so there are no misunderstandings if you can

last time I posted: Please, this is a classic case of 'making it fit'. The parts of the eye are multiple. According to darwins 'natural selection' It would have had to be multiple evolution processes happening in tandem for that to work, as you may well know some elements of th eeye are useless outside the sum. do you know how many ifs buts and maybes are involved in the evolution of the eye? The eyes earliest fossils are found in the cambrian period. And as you will know the cambrian period is what Darwin saw as the biggest objection to his theory

you answered the bold bit but ignored the rest. typically I may add.


No, you didn't.
You changed the phrasing completely.

so define it and we can continue from a set point, as I have repeatedly asked and you dont seem to do

See?

as I said in the absence of you offering a 'meaning' or word then I will have to use one. Then you can continue being semantic

Atheism would exist, as people wouldn't believe in a god or gods, but nobody would know that they were an atheist.
It would be a redundant term.

I said that some religions claim that god is unknowable.

can the unknowable exist?

 

[The Raging Oxter]

can the unknowable exist?

Yes.

Again, a wee crash course in quantum physics would answer most of the questions you keep asking.

 

[thefanwithnoname]

You've yet to explain why it's come from anywhere, rather than just existing.

based on the dinosaurs and sex bit

because it is logical to conclude, unless of course you can name 1 thing that just exists
as we know it

 

[thefanwithnoname]

Yes.

Again, a wee crash course in quantum physics would answer most of the questions you keep asking.

so can an unknowable god exist?

i havent got time for a crash course. can you explain? briefly

 

[SUPERNORWICH 23]

Do you eat with your hands? We have spoons, you may deny their existence but they are real as are sporks...

 

[BoleynAli]

I agree with that, but in my opinion religion was created to give uncivilised people a moral compass before laws were invented. Once laws came into being religion should have died a natural death, but because people are corrupt the churches, temples, mosques and synagogues remained because basically god, heaven and hell are good products and as we all know good products make money.

Craig, if it's accepted that the oldest religions of which we are aware of are, say, 7-8,000 years old then I do hope religion was not invented as a moral compass to guide before the invention of laws as that would suggest we were amoral before!! I totally agree that religion should have died a death, I think it's the biggest money spinner on the planet.

 

[The Raging Oxter]

so can an unknowable god exist?

i havent got time for a crash course. can you explain? briefly

I don't know if an unknowable god exists.

There are unknowable elements hinted at in quantum physics. So far there's been no suggestion of a god.

As for a crash course. Go and study it yourself.

 

[thefanwithnoname]

You have been told over and over. You just dont get it. Or don't want to get it.

or its not true?