I agree choice is key, being double jabbed does severely reduce the chances of passing it to others though, so personally I would feel much happier knowing everyone around is either fully jabbed or has taken a test. If people chose not to accept the jab That’s fine and their choice, but it’s also my choice if I want to sit next to them in a crowded venue. Surely it’s selfish to not be fully vaccinated and yet expect to be allowed into an enclosed space where you are more likely to spread it to others.
Off Topic Coronavirus
- Thread starter bcfcredandwhite
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That's what they tell you!!! This is not fact and far too early in collating concrete evidence, hence why they want us all to continue to wear masks and have regular tests..and quarantine on arrival from certain listed Countries...
You can still carry the virus if you've been vaccinated, it's the quantity of the virus that's reduced and it depends on each individual.......basically it's chance so I challenge your quote of saying "It severely reduces the chances of you spreading it though"........which IMO is wrong...
I mean, scientists and research groups around the world all have a consensus that vaccines reduce transmission. What do you know that they don't? Is it all a conspiracy that every scientist is somehow in on? You can't say 'that's what they tell you' without having something to offer in return. What proof do you have?
If you wear a mask and/or have a vaccine you reduce the likelihood of getting and transmitting the virus. How is that simply 'chance'? It's making your chances better for sure. As well as those around you.
Are you a scientist?
And I say that is wrong...........Just been reading regarding the Delta variant in particular in the states, even though people have had full vaccination they are still getting the virus and spreading it.. and it's on the rise... The fact regarding virus's, this one is far too in early stages to know how it reacts....
I do plenty of research, not just News items for the mass!!!
It's not a proper vaccine to eradicate (as there isn't one) because they have not fully identified the exact virus that it is!! , the vaccine only helps protect against serious illness...
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You say public health England and science do not. Fully vacinnated people can still spread the virus and catch it. But the facts, the empirical evidence state vaccination reduces infection rates and the symptoms. Without facts you have an opinion, and that is a fact.
Applying your method. No vaccination works because no vaccinnation can be 100% effective v a virus as viruses mutate and humans physiology differs.
I never said it didn't reduce infection did I?? I questioned Bob's severely reduces, which it doesn't..It's actually too early to know long term what protection the vaccine gives.....
They are unable to give a vaccine to eradicate the virus until they can properly identify it.......fact!!
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Semantics. Vaccination has had a significant (severely?) measurable impact on infection rates and the symptoms of covid. A fact.
No vaccination will eradicate 100% a virus. The MMR vaccine has not eradicated measles and mumps.
Not semantics at all, long term, it's an unknown, you say significant....measured over months!!! it would be foolish to think otherwise to think vaccinated people are virus free...common sense prevails yet again!!
A quote from medical news site in the states
"As good as they are, these shots aren't perfect. Their protection differs from person to person depending on age and underlying health. People with immune function that's weakened because of age or a health condition can still become seriously ill, and, in very rare cases, die after vaccination.
When people are infected with Delta, they carry approximately 1000 times more virus compared with previous versions of the virus, according to a recent study. All that virus can overwhelm even the strong protection from the vaccines."
"One of the biggest questions about breakthrough cases is how often people who have it may pass the virus to others.
"We know the vaccine reduces the likelihood of carrying the virus and the amount of virus you would carry," Wen told CNN.
But we don't yet know whether a vaccinated person with a breakthrough infection may still be contagious to others.
For that reason, the CDC says that fully vaccinated people still need to be tested if they have symptoms and shouldn't be out in public for at least 10 days after a positive test.
How should fully vaccinated people behave? That depends a lot on their underlying health and whether or not they have vulnerable people around them.
If you're older or immunocompromised, Schaffner recommends what he calls the "belt-and-suspenders approach," in other words, do everything you can to stay safe.
As good as they are, these shots aren't perfect. Their protection differs from person to person depending on age and underlying health. People with immune function that's weakened because of age or a health condition can still become seriously ill
your repeating what a poster already posted. Seems unless something is beyond good enough its not good enough because its doesnt work for every single person on the planet!!
I see that they've found that the Pfizer jab carries the SAME risk of blood clotting as the AZ - plus a small risk of an enlarged heart (which was already known).
The EU (French in particular) are being accused of scaremongering about the AZ vaccine as 'sour grapes' about Brexit. BOTH vaccines have the same risk of blood clots but with Pfizer you might also get an enlarged heart. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...ine-risk-blood-clots-Pfizers-study-finds.html
Just to be clear though; the risk of suffering a blood clot, or enlarged heart, as a result of CATCHING Covid is much higher than the tiny risk of getting them with EITHER vaccine.
At the end of the day 1for, it's your body and your choice whether or not to have the vaccine, but if you DON'T have it then you will find yourself unable to attend certain venues or travel to certain countries. Rightly or wrongly those rules are coming in. You might also get Covid - which could be MUCH worse.
I read today (ok it's the Mail) that the Delta (Indian) variant poses a particular risk to pregnant women: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...er-danger-pregnant-women-scientists-warn.html (NOT suggesting this applies to you 1for!!!!)
My son is also an anti-vaxxer and I keep telling him the same thing. I'm sure when he can't go on holiday with his mates - or visit our flat in Gib. he'll come around........
The EU (French in particular) are being accused of scaremongering about the AZ vaccine as 'sour grapes' about Brexit. BOTH vaccines have the same risk of blood clots but with Pfizer you might also get an enlarged heart. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...ine-risk-blood-clots-Pfizers-study-finds.html
Just to be clear though; the risk of suffering a blood clot, or enlarged heart, as a result of CATCHING Covid is much higher than the tiny risk of getting them with EITHER vaccine.
At the end of the day 1for, it's your body and your choice whether or not to have the vaccine, but if you DON'T have it then you will find yourself unable to attend certain venues or travel to certain countries. Rightly or wrongly those rules are coming in. You might also get Covid - which could be MUCH worse.
I read today (ok it's the Mail) that the Delta (Indian) variant poses a particular risk to pregnant women: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...er-danger-pregnant-women-scientists-warn.html (NOT suggesting this applies to you 1for!!!!)
My son is also an anti-vaxxer and I keep telling him the same thing. I'm sure when he can't go on holiday with his mates - or visit our flat in Gib. he'll come around........
My point is, you can go to an event or stadium or whatever, just because people have had the jab, you can still be at risk of contracting the virus as they can still spread it...the chances are reduced but still there. The fact that if you've chosen to have the jab, for you personally, it will help to protect you from serious illness or worse and that's a choice issue.
Thing is mate, whether you have the vaccine or not, I imagine you will still have to take tests and quarantine on return from most Countries...I feel the vaccine app with QR code etc, is a bit Big brother and many people won't put up with it.....so tests which to some are quite expensive will also put people off......Money talks, so will be interesting how long Events & Countries will back down with reduced numbers...
AND it will help to protect others. In myself having the jab I will be protecting you. As Cliftonville says, significantly so, which is probably the correct terminology.
Your logic is seemingly based on the premise that if it isn't 100% effective there is no point having it. Do you wear a seatbelt? Yes? Well what's the point if they don't save your life 100% of the time?
To be honest, I'd rather know that you've been tested than having the jab, in my eyes, that would be more protection!!!
Ha ha..(seatbelt) .most of the time I don't and I have good reason, due to an accident I was in (1977) when the car turned over and managed to get out the popped back window quickly, which I wouldn't have done if I had a seat belt on.......My life, my choice, even if it is law breaking!!!
Just to stretch the point, I believe in the jab ( I'm lucky enough to have had 2 and looking forward to a winter booster) but strongly disagree with a vaccine passport, choice not coersion, education not force, like it or not we are a supposed to be a free society of democrats.
I also strongly disagree with people refusing to be jabbed but it is their choice and they are entitled to it.
I also strongly disagree with people refusing to be jabbed but it is their choice and they are entitled to it.
Pretty much my view too. I don't know enough about how a vaccine passport will work but if people can prove that they are negative, that should be enough to get into venues in my opinion. Even if it means them having to be tested every day or so, that's down to their choice not to have the vaccine.
I'd want to see how intrusive the vaccine passport is first though. It definitely opens up some uncomfortable doors doesn't it.
One issue is that the lateral flow test can be blagged - I'm actually surprised that this hasn't been highlighted before! As long as you have a Rapid Antigen Test kit you can use the serial number from an individual test and input whatever result you want onto the government website. It is this result input that is used to provide "proof" to the likes of Silverstone/Goodwood and other venues that you are free of the virus.
It is up to the individual to be open and honest! But, if there is somewhere you want to go, you think you may have the virus and are totally selfish, the system can be easily circumvented!!