Weekend Discussion
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Homegrown is just England and Wales. Thus if we signed a 19 year old from a Scottish club, they would never qualify for home grown statusCheers for that, Aski. You've already answered my next question, which was 'does home equal england, or all of the UK?' Guess it's UK.
Shame that it doesn't include Eire too, imo. It's not too late for Shako to give up brutalising pints & play for Leeds & brutalise the opposition instead!
Well they need to be registered for 3 years before turning 21, anytime spent at Scottish club wouldn't count,
Ie signing someone who has been registered at a Scottish club since they were 15, is exactly the same as signing a player who has played in China since they were 15. Signing a player from a Welsh club is different as that period counts towards home grown status.
Hence why I said earlier in the thread, despite Eric Dier being an English international, he does not have home grown status when Spurs register their squad of over aged players, because he was not registered with an English or Welsh club for a period of 3 years prior to the age of 21
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Eric Diet - very good
That's what happens when you visit your parents for dinner, and decide to check the forum and respond whilst on a very old mobile phone, when wearing your tv glasses and not your reading glasses
Thanks for that. I must say that I find this astonishing.
For those interested in trying to understand WJ's astonishment, or in need of something that will put them to sleep within 2 minutes of beginning to read, then please feel free to click on the "spoiler" . For those of you who aren't interested, value their time, have the attention levels of a goldfish. then please move onto the next post in the thread, as there is nothing to read here
Obviously for many years prior to the 1990's there was no distinction within any of the British leagues regarding the nationality of British players, hence why we had a big influx of both Welsh and Scots in the 70's and 80's. A lot of the European leagues had restrictions on the number of foreign players to aid tthe development of their national teams. Because of the different rules within each of the European leagues, UEFA after much resistance from all four British FA's and propagandizing from the major European FA's, UEFA introduced the 3+2 rule, in which teams could only field 3 foreign players in a team of 11, together with 2 assimilated players ( ie had played in that country for 5 years). Thus the late and great Gary Speed was one of our assimilated players and it was this rule that led to the game against Stuggart having to go to a decider in Barcelona, after Stuttgart breached that rule, when making a substitution. Gary Mac, Gordon Stachan and Cantona were classed as our 3 foreign players, although either of Gary or Gordon could have been classed as assimilated if we had required to sign a non British player.
1995 comes around and we have the Bosman ruling, which other than allowing players to run down their contracts and move to other clubs without a transfer fees being paid, also judged that the 3+2 rule was in contradiction to article 39 of the Europeans Union Freedom of Movement For Workers, thus in the 96/97 season we had 13 non English players in our squad (8 of these players being non British). The following season we had 22 non English players, 16 of which weren't British. Of our Champions League game at home to Lazio in March 2001, our starting 11 consisted of 4 English players, 1 additional British player, 3 players from Europe (All from Ireland) and 3 Australians.
This eventually led to the top leagues in England, Germany, Spain, Italy and France consisting of over 45% of non nationals playing in their respective leagues, with most of the top talent being at a select number of clubs. This also had 2 additional effects, weakening of a lot of the other member leagues within Uefa, such as the Dutch, Swedish, Belgium and Portuguese leagues together with the minor leagues of Eastern Europe as more countries were allowed to enter the EU, and also curtailed the growth of home grown talent as Ivan from some village on the coast of the black sea in Bulgaria, was just as good a footballer as Billy from Beeston, but Ivan was happy to play for £5 per month and a bowl of gruel for breakfast ( I would say journalistic licence has been applied there, except I'm obviously not a journalist
).
FIFA wished to introduce a 6+5 rule, where 6 of the eleven players in a team must be eligible to play for the nation that their club is based in. Uefa considered that this was no different to the 3+2 rule that the European Courts had previously declared illegal, and thus with the backing from the member states and the European Parliament, the home grown rule was initially introduced in European club competitions in 2005, and subsequently adopted by most of the national leagues. The Football League introduced the rule in the 2009/2010 season whilst the Premier League introduced this rule during the 2010/11 season. Because of the long standing of Welsh clubs having played in the football league before even our club was formed and the infancy of the Welsh football league, it was agreed that players who were registered between the ages of 15-21 for a period of 3 years with either a Welsh or English club would be classed as home grown within either nation. The other home nations of Scotland and Northern Ireland with already established leagues, would be treated the same as any other league within Europe.
The research for the above comes from a number of websites, but this paper from Simon Gardner of Leeds Becket University and Roger Welsh of the University of Portsmouth looks into the above in greater detail
https://www.researchgate.net/public...UEFA's_'home-grown_player_rule'_on_the_agenda
1995 comes around and we have the Bosman ruling, which other than allowing players to run down their contracts and move to other clubs without a transfer fees being paid, also judged that the 3+2 rule was in contradiction to article 39 of the Europeans Union Freedom of Movement For Workers, thus in the 96/97 season we had 13 non English players in our squad (8 of these players being non British). The following season we had 22 non English players, 16 of which weren't British. Of our Champions League game at home to Lazio in March 2001, our starting 11 consisted of 4 English players, 1 additional British player, 3 players from Europe (All from Ireland) and 3 Australians.
This eventually led to the top leagues in England, Germany, Spain, Italy and France consisting of over 45% of non nationals playing in their respective leagues, with most of the top talent being at a select number of clubs. This also had 2 additional effects, weakening of a lot of the other member leagues within Uefa, such as the Dutch, Swedish, Belgium and Portuguese leagues together with the minor leagues of Eastern Europe as more countries were allowed to enter the EU, and also curtailed the growth of home grown talent as Ivan from some village on the coast of the black sea in Bulgaria, was just as good a footballer as Billy from Beeston, but Ivan was happy to play for £5 per month and a bowl of gruel for breakfast ( I would say journalistic licence has been applied there, except I'm obviously not a journalist
).FIFA wished to introduce a 6+5 rule, where 6 of the eleven players in a team must be eligible to play for the nation that their club is based in. Uefa considered that this was no different to the 3+2 rule that the European Courts had previously declared illegal, and thus with the backing from the member states and the European Parliament, the home grown rule was initially introduced in European club competitions in 2005, and subsequently adopted by most of the national leagues. The Football League introduced the rule in the 2009/2010 season whilst the Premier League introduced this rule during the 2010/11 season. Because of the long standing of Welsh clubs having played in the football league before even our club was formed and the infancy of the Welsh football league, it was agreed that players who were registered between the ages of 15-21 for a period of 3 years with either a Welsh or English club would be classed as home grown within either nation. The other home nations of Scotland and Northern Ireland with already established leagues, would be treated the same as any other league within Europe.
The research for the above comes from a number of websites, but this paper from Simon Gardner of Leeds Becket University and Roger Welsh of the University of Portsmouth looks into the above in greater detail
https://www.researchgate.net/public...UEFA's_'home-grown_player_rule'_on_the_agenda
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Great post Aski and in a roundabout way explains the decline of Scotland and Scottish players, who once were the spine of many English clubs, including Leeds.
The other thing highlights freedom of movement has managed to depress wages in every sphere of business and in Europe….. except football in England. Yes we have had and still do have plenty of players from eastern europe, and then we imported African and sub saharan players and now South American and Asian players. Yet player wages in England are still overblown and that also means stupidly high transfer fees for players from English clubs
The other thing highlights freedom of movement has managed to depress wages in every sphere of business and in Europe….. except football in England. Yes we have had and still do have plenty of players from eastern europe, and then we imported African and sub saharan players and now South American and Asian players. Yet player wages in England are still overblown and that also means stupidly high transfer fees for players from English clubs
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The worst thing about being a Leeds Utd fan is that most transfer rumours involve players that supposedly Southampton, Brighton, Burnley, Wolves, Palace and Newcastle are chasing. In reality I suppose we are classed as being in that level of financial clout?
Im hoping that another successful season at this level will kill off those comparisons
Im hoping that another successful season at this level will kill off those comparisons
Arsenal by comparison to Leeds with similar points and league position have spent circa £400m since Arteta took over and has made £59m on player sales which nets out at £340m. So yes Leeds are financially stable and sound but we cannot spend anywhere near the sums, Chelsea, Arsenal, Spurs, Liverpool, Man Utd, Man City, Everton spend. If we can penetrate that top 7 it should mean the club we displace should sack their manager?
Although from a positive point of view (wow I'm viewing something more positive than you Doc, I must have a fever
), you could say those clubs are chasing those players, because they know we are after them, and know that we have a good record of getting quality players cheaply. And from those players point of view , they can see they are being chased by 5 or 6 clubs that have got into the Premier League and for the most part stood still, and one team that is moving onwards and upwards, despite being recently promoted. Their decision on who to join, will show how ambitious they are.
In regards to chasing players, I think it’s more a case the agent sends details out to several clubs which includes ourselves and then releases a story saying we’re interested.
We can’t possibly be looking for another CB yet we still get linked with interested in them.
We can’t possibly be looking for another CB yet we still get linked with interested in them.
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Lets get some more fresh blood onto the site!!!!
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Lets get some more fresh blood onto the site!!!!
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I’ve invited a few who’ve shown interest, I’m wondering if there is a problem joining maybe @brb has had to disable new members due to spam?
This would not acceptable, unless obvious spybots.
Any new member with a Leeds associated user should be allowed to join us. We'll know soon enough whether they're a spam poster or not.
I don't want to lose posters to other forums because there is a chance the user posts spam!
@ristac
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