Off Topic Coronavirus

[moreinjuredthanowen]

But your point was that we shouldn’t accept it’s something we just live with. So how do you suggest we go about that? We stay in national lockdowns forever?

Point is this thing isn’t going away. All you can do is try and reduce the numbers dying. Don’t get me wrong I’m not saying everyone should just fend for themselves and we pretend nothing ever happened.

But to live with it, much like we live with other illnesses and diseases, we have to treat it best we can. And that’ll mean a booster shot every year like we do for flu. This thing will mutate, and as such the vaccines will have to keep evolving but you’re never going to get rid of it because it’s new on impossible to get rid of a coronavirus, of which the flu is a type of.

We live with cancers, but people still eat meat, smoke cigarettes and drink alcohol. As I say it’s risk of death compared to quality of life. As you get older you are unfortunately more susceptible to these things, as such the risk is higher which is why they will be offered booster shots.

let’s not forget that because we’ve all been locked up for a year, immune systems have had an easy ride this year and as such they expect huge flu numbers because no one got it last year.

It’s like parents trying to avoid their children touching dirt for fear of getting ill, all it means is that when they invariably do get ill, it’s twice as bad as they have no immune response.

No we need to actually take the really effective steps.

1. Supress the virus.

2. act about borders properly. We've basically decided we are too important and need to travel for anything we feel like and thus people can come in from all the places where covid variants are popping up. we basically developed our own kent variant, fair enough. We didn;t do too bad on brazil variant but we let the indian delta variant in.

3. Vaccinate and develop the industry to keep on top of it as required.

We should recognise here that we vaccinate successful (relatively) for measles (R=10-14) mumps (7-10), rubella (7-10) and we do not see these having mass outbreaks as we suppress the stuff as much as possible.

We have a virus here thats 5-7 now with delta variant and vaccinations.

What we actually have imo is cart before the horse attitudes here. It would almost be easier if bombs were falling on us as it'd be more real. after the initial "fear" and "panic" we saw the country forced into lockdown kicking and screaming (late and boris etc made it worse) then come out and people go help out and eat out and go on holidays across europe (rushing home after country after country got stopped) then all visit for Christmas and drive a massive wave of deaths before the vaccinations.

In short once the initial fear was done and all the applause people said ah we need to get back to normal. we get every vested interest and business shouting mental health like its a new discovery and so this consistent drive to be normal before we are ready to be normal keeps happening.

Everyone will repeat the trick now this summer. We are already seeing wild wonderful normal life scenes at cricket ground and Wembley and we all know the virus is going to spread like wildfire.

you or i don't worry about getting measles even though its highly contagious. IMo thats cos we are both vaccinated (at least I was) and the virus is suppressed.

So with 33 million people vaccinated fully at 50% of population and the ability to get at least down to age 12 all vaccinated the opportunity existed to suppress this with the best tools possible.

The progress from January to April drove confidence, we got from zero to 30million done. however the numbers getting it have dropped down a bit as the second vaccines go in and we've only got 14mil more over the last 3 months as first vaccines.

IMO we need to drive that rate up now, it may not even too late now (hopefully) that getting the job done now with the good vaccines that work can kill this here.

BUt then we need to cut the travel. Sorry but 100% PCR test and quarantine is prove to work but jsut plain not globe trotting is where we are headed.

I'd much rather lads can go down the pub and go to matches and out and about normally than a minority get to travel about the globe.

 

[InBiscanWeTrust]

No we need to actually take the really effective steps.

1. Supress the virus.

2. act about borders properly. We've basically decided we are too important and need to travel for anything we feel like and thus people can come in from all the places where covid variants are popping up. we basically developed our own kent variant, fair enough. We didn;t do too bad on brazil variant but we let the indian delta variant in.

3. Vaccinate and develop the industry to keep on top of it as required.

We should recognise here that we vaccinate successful (relatively) for measles (R=10-14) mumps (7-10), rubella (7-10) and we do not see these having mass outbreaks as we suppress the stuff as much as possible.

We have a virus here thats 5-7 now with delta variant and vaccinations.

What we actually have imo is cart before the horse attitudes here. It would almost be easier if bombs were falling on us as it'd be more real. after the initial "fear" and "panic" we saw the country forced into lockdown kicking and screaming (late and boris etc made it worse) then come out and people go help out and eat out and go on holidays across europe (rushing home after country after country got stopped) then all visit for Christmas and drive a massive wave of deaths before the vaccinations.

In short once the initial fear was done and all the applause people said ah we need to get back to normal. we get every vested interest and business shouting mental health like its a new discovery and so this consistent drive to be normal before we are ready to be normal keeps happening.

Everyone will repeat the trick now this summer. We are already seeing wild wonderful normal life scenes at cricket ground and Wembley and we all know the virus is going to spread like wildfire.

you or i don't worry about getting measles even though its highly contagious. IMo thats cos we are both vaccinated (at least I was) and the virus is suppressed.

So with 33 million people vaccinated fully at 50% of population and the ability to get at least down to age 12 all vaccinated the opportunity existed to suppress this with the best tools possible.

The progress from January to April drove confidence, we got from zero to 30million done. however the numbers getting it have dropped down a bit as the second vaccines go in and we've only got 14mil more over the last 3 months as first vaccines.

IMO we need to drive that rate up now, it may not even too late now (hopefully) that getting the job done now with the good vaccines that work can kill this here.

BUt then we need to cut the travel. Sorry but 100% PCR test and quarantine is prove to work but jsut plain not globe trotting is where we are headed.

I'd much rather lads can go down the pub and go to matches and out and about normally than a minority get to travel about the globe.

Your talking about vaccines for children against diseases that can be very damaging to them. Covid isn’t damaging to kids in 99.9% of cases so why would you vaccinate them, and why would you put the country on hold until they are vaccinated?

The country has been in some sort of lockdown for 18 months. Some business are still not allowed to open, yes people’s physically health is important but you can’t shut everything forever. There needs to be travel, travel companies go busy, that’s thousands of jobs gone, what do those people then do? Pubs were going busy as it it’s. Local shops that couldn’t open. Not to mention the obscene amount the gov are still paying in furlough etc which will no doubt have a huge impact on people’s lives in the future when it comes to spending elsewhere.

Im struggling to see what you actually want to happen here? Sounds like you want every single person vaccinated, but only with certain vaccines, and then given new ones every how ever so often to fight off any other variation, keep all boarders closed until the rest of the world is all vaccinated (to the same standard of the uk) and not allow anyone from uk to leave the country, until this virus is non existent…
sorry but that won’t happen and the virus will be around for many many years until people have developed some natural immunity to it and the thing will become less and less damaging. Prob won’t ever 100% disappear

 

[moreinjuredthanowen]

Your talking about vaccines for children against diseases that can be very damaging to them. Covid isn’t damaging to kids in 99.9% of cases so why would you vaccinate them, and why would you put the country on hold until they are vaccinated?

The country has been in some sort of lockdown for 18 months. Some business are still not allowed to open, yes people’s physically health is important but you can’t shut everything forever. There needs to be travel, travel companies go busy, that’s thousands of jobs gone, what do those people then do? Pubs were going busy as it it’s. Local shops that couldn’t open. Not to mention the obscene amount the gov are still paying in furlough etc which will no doubt have a huge impact on people’s lives in the future when it comes to spending elsewhere.

Im struggling to see what you actually want to happen here? Sounds like you want every single person vaccinated, but only with certain vaccines, and then given new ones every how ever so often to fight off any other variation, keep all boarders closed until the rest of the world is all vaccinated (to the same standard of the uk) and not allow anyone from uk to leave the country, until this virus is non existent…
sorry but that won’t happen and the virus will be around for many many years until people have developed some natural immunity to it and the thing will become less and less damaging. Prob won’t ever 100% disappear

No I'm actually not.

Measles is not an kids disease. Mumps are ot a kids disease, neither is rubella.

Rubella if contracted while pregnant causes serious issues, we vaccinate to prevent it.

If you or got measles as adult males we could go sterile.

These are diseases that are so virulent that you see kids get the mand be seriously seriously I'll then are largely but not totally immune and you see adults not get it cos we all had vaccines as kids.

They are only kids diseases due to anti cancers not doing their kids like their own parents or the state did them. Then you get outbreaks and its kids getting them.

The point again is these are highly highly virulent diseases we 100% try to vaccinate for and covid is not up to r=7 if unchecked.

The reason to vaccinate kids to the suppress the thing.

Or of course we can allow it to mutate and mutate and find find kids are even more affected.

Again I would queue round the block 24 hours a day vaccinating. 6 months ago we had no vaccine. Now were are slowly slowly giving compared to the big burst at the outset. Now is the time to accelerate.

Seriously the reason you've locked down is cos the thing is high contagious and dangerous. Finish the job!

If we had a new measles type thing we'd have no vaccine and no program vaccinating when people are babies and would have to start from scratch.

We are 33 million people.i to this. The job is 50/60% done. Let's get the job done and keep the borders shut till others do likewise.

By august/september a lot of europe will be largely done but theres booster job then.

All we are going to do though is half do the job all do on party holidays bring a massive wave back and then blame the schools when from september to october the numbers fly up again.

 

[moreinjuredthanowen]

As usual Boris is ****ing it.

Zero powers to enforce mask wearing on public transport, going to be a free for all and one of the biggest risks is this. People rammed in the tube etc, utter lunacy.

Edited!!!

 

[Germlands Nozzer]

People rimmed in the tube

Erm...

 

[moreinjuredthanowen]

Erm...

I can see how you got excited there for a minute

 

[InBiscanWeTrust]

As usual Boris is ****ing it.

Zero powers to enforce mask wearing on public transport, going to be a free for all and one of the biggest risks is this. People rammed in the tube etc, utter lunacy.

Edited!!!

If people chose to get on the tubes with no masks that’s their own fault. Wouldn’t get in the tube in normal circumstances before covid let alone now tbh

 

[moreinjuredthanowen]

If you combine forcing everyone back to the office with unsafe public transport and ineffective vaccines you might as well be lining us up against a wall

 

[Solid Air 2]

If you combine forcing everyone back to the office with unsafe public transport and ineffective vaccines you might as well be lining us up against a wall

which ineffective vaccines are these ?

 

[moreinjuredthanowen]

which ineffective vaccines are these ?

You know the one

 

[DirtyFrank]

If you combine forcing everyone back to the office with unsafe public transport and ineffective vaccines you might as well be lining us up against a wall

Mweh... all govt is doing is moving responsibility to the employer... mine (CEO is a daily mail sharing arse on covid) tried to give us a date.. until I said, 1) NI hasn't followed the the blond **** yet and 2) even if they did..it switches back to duty of care and existing health and safety legislation... I identify the risks (if employer doesn't do the required risk assessment) if ignores and I get sick by being forced into an unsafe working environment...I'll sue.

Govt will wash hands of it because I'm not suing them.

Haven't heard a peep about us going back in since...

Tbh, I want at least to go back in, in some hybrid version.. while it saves me money wfh I actually miss the craic as my team are great people...

 

[moreinjuredthanowen]

Mweh... all govt is doing is moving responsibility to the employer... mine (CEO is a daily mail sharing arse on covid) tried to give us a date.. until I said, 1) NI hasn't followed the the blond **** yet and 2) even if they did..it switches back to duty of care and existing health and safety legislation... I identify the risks (if employer doesn't do the required risk assessment) if ignores and I get sick by being forced into an unsafe working environment...I'll sue.

Govt will wash hands of it because I'm not suing them.

Haven't heard a peep about us going back in since...

Tbh, I want at least to go back in, in some hybrid version.. while it saves me money wfh I actually miss the craic as my team are great people...

Can you drive to work?

I would agree with you that work from home is for the birds and largely dead end as the toadie who goes to the office will be the one getting the promotions.

 

[DirtyFrank]

Can you drive to work?

I would agree with you that work from home is for the birds and largely dead end as the toadie who goes to the office will be the one getting the promotions.

Ha... I agree... but another own goal by our lot... every single one of us was targeted and employed on a "we will pay you more because you are no longer a manager but there's no upward route in department" we to a person took our jobs because they provided much better benefits than last employer (even me coming from govt although slightly lower salary)

All fine as they still had small company philosophy.. which was nice but they aren't small... I'm good at my job because I have transitioned this **** before but..... they are too successful.. lots of acquisitions..got bigger and bigger... small team at the edge.

Perfect time for employees to assert their position lol...

So... to answer your question... theirs no hungry employees to take our places... its still all convoluted just to get rid and bring in new...


But... look... the new way is hybrid for offices... only people that will fight it is middle management who owe a large part of their jobs to meetings for meetings sake and owners who own office property... and rent it back...

I mean think about it... in my tiny town.. during last year... every shop , eatery, etc that was on the city street has opened... that's literally free market economics... and yet the Tories are crying about the supplementary businesses that will be effected by people not going back to city centers..

What annoys me most is this should be Labour's biggest chance at bringing everything back local, and North... silence...

 

[moreinjuredthanowen]

Ha... I agree... but another own goal by our lot... every single one of us was targeted and employed on a "we will pay you more because you are no longer a manager but there's no upward route in department" we to a person took our jobs because they provided much better benefits than last employer (even me coming from govt although slightly lower salary)

All fine as they still had small company philosophy.. which was nice but they aren't small... I'm good at my job because I have transitioned this **** before but..... they are too successful.. lots of acquisitions..got bigger and bigger... small team at the edge.

Perfect time for employees to assert their position lol...

So... to answer your question... theirs no hungry employees to take our places... its still all convoluted just to get rid and bring in new...


But... look... the new way is hybrid for offices... only people that will fight it is middle management who owe a large part of their jobs to meetings for meetings sake and owners who own office property... and rent it back...

I mean think about it... in my tiny town.. during last year... every shop , eatery, etc that was on the city street has opened... that's literally free market economics... and yet the Tories are crying about the supplementary businesses that will be effected by people not going back to city centers..

What annoys me most is this should be Labour's biggest chance at bringing everything back local, and North... silence...

I have to say I agree about middle managers. Those are the people who dont understand the job, just are good at toady work talking the talk. Their insecurities is what will force people back to offices as they are unable to say how productive someone is without standing behind them to make sure they are sat at their pc.

 

[moreinjuredthanowen]

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/netherlan...070.html?utm_source=upday&utm_medium=referral

Just some data from the netherlands where they had a free for all opening.

Unlike here their cases were on the way down when they pulled the trigger. It lasted 14 days and they are straight back into lockdown.

Here boris has declared the worst is open and throws the place wide open despite rapidly rising cases. What could possibly go wrong.

The dutch has 43% double vaxxed. We have 53?

 

[InBiscanWeTrust]

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/netherlan...070.html?utm_source=upday&utm_medium=referral

Just some data from the netherlands where they had a free for all opening.

Unlike here their cases were on the way down when they pulled the trigger. It lasted 14 days and they are straight back into lockdown.

Here boris has declared the worst is open and throws the place wide open despite rapidly rising cases. What could possibly go wrong.

The dutch has 43% double vaxxed. We have 53?

theres never going to be w good time to open. This things here for many years. If you don’t open in the middle of summer you open in middle of winter when things are going to be even worse for the nhs. At least this way, if people do get it and need to go to hospital, the nhs has the capacity to deal with the numbers.

 

[moreinjuredthanowen]

theres never going to be w good time to open. This things here for many years. If you don’t open in the middle of summer you open in middle of winter when things are going to be even worse for the nhs. At least this way, if people do get it and need to go to hospital, the nhs has the capacity to deal with the numbers.

That's very true, however the inevitability is once you open then the surge comes and the big boom happens the final normality is 6 months further along again.

As ned stark would say winter is coming.

Do we end up with freedom for 6month a year?

We need to resolve what is risk and what is not risk rather than saying I want "normal" as as much wishing as people do the general unwillingness to give a hard hard 6 weeks is not there to suppress this and even if it were the will to shut airport's is not there either.

 

[InBiscanWeTrust]

That's very true, however the inevitability is once you open then the surge comes and the big boom happens the final normality is 6 months further along again.

As ned stark would say winter is coming.

Do we end up with freedom for 6month a year?

We need to resolve what is risk and what is not risk rather than saying I want "normal" as as much wishing as people do the general unwillingness to give a hard hard 6 weeks is not there to suppress this and even if it were the will to shut airport's is not there either.

Thing is, people are unfortunately going to die from it. The old and vulnerable and as much as that sucks, take all emotion out of it and logically it makes sense to open. Most of those have been doubled vaxxed so are less vulnerable now, however to really protect them you go into lockdown. Therefor you close shops, you close restaurants, bars, cafes, schools.

that just has another huge impact on the young who then have no jobs, no income, people then lose their homes, they can’t afford to essentials, quality of life for the masses who are the future of the country dips. Kids miss out on yet more education, we maybe lose a small generation of potential dr’s scientists which has a long term impact.

As I say, at some point you have to get back to some sort of normality while doing all you can to save as many as possible.

Reminds me of conundrum, should a man in a car with his small children swerve and potentially kill a pedestrian on the street to save his children, or not swerve and potentially kill his whole family. Morally it may seem wrong to kill an innocent bystander, but logically it makes most sense as horrible as it sounds. obviously easier for me to think this way given I’m younger and it affects me less, but you have to way your the pro and cons and the impact to youth is going to be hard if we go into another lockdown.

 

[Diego]

Thing is, people are unfortunately going to die from it. The old and vulnerable and as much as that sucks, take all emotion out of it and logically it makes sense to open. Most of those have been doubled vaxxed so are less vulnerable now, however to really protect them you go into lockdown. Therefor you close shops, you close restaurants, bars, cafes, schools.

that just has another huge impact on the young who then have no jobs, no income, people then lose their homes, they can’t afford to essentials, quality of life for the masses who are the future of the country dips. Kids miss out on yet more education, we maybe lose a small generation of potential dr’s scientists which has a long term impact.

As I say, at some point you have to get back to some sort of normality while doing all you can to save as many as possible.

Reminds me of conundrum, should a man in a car with his small children swerve and potentially kill a pedestrian on the street to save his children, or not swerve and potentially kill his whole family. Morally it may seem wrong to kill an innocent bystander, but logically it makes most sense as horrible as it sounds. obviously easier for me to think this way given I’m younger and it affects me less, but you have to way your the pro and cons and the impact to youth is going to be hard if we go into another lockdown.

Oldest granddaughter is 5 years old, in the last two months she has had 4 day's of schooling because 1 other in her year (not always the same 1 ) has had a hit for covid meaning the whole"bubble" has had to stay at home.
****ing stupid and a really poor start for kids.

 

[moreinjuredthanowen]

Thing is, people are unfortunately going to die from it. The old and vulnerable and as much as that sucks, take all emotion out of it and logically it makes sense to open. Most of those have been doubled vaxxed so are less vulnerable now, however to really protect them you go into lockdown. Therefor you close shops, you close restaurants, bars, cafes, schools.

that just has another huge impact on the young who then have no jobs, no income, people then lose their homes, they can’t afford to essentials, quality of life for the masses who are the future of the country dips. Kids miss out on yet more education, we maybe lose a small generation of potential dr’s scientists which has a long term impact.

As I say, at some point you have to get back to some sort of normality while doing all you can to save as many as possible.

Reminds me of conundrum, should a man in a car with his small children swerve and potentially kill a pedestrian on the street to save his children, or not swerve and potentially kill his whole family. Morally it may seem wrong to kill an innocent bystander, but logically it makes most sense as horrible as it sounds. obviously easier for me to think this way given I’m younger and it affects me less, but you have to way your the pro and cons and the impact to youth is going to be hard if we go into another lockdown.

Thing is, people are unfortunately going to die from it. The old and vulnerable and as much as that sucks, take all emotion out of it and logically it makes sense to open. Most of those have been doubled vaxxed so are less vulnerable now, however to really protect them you go into lockdown. Therefor you close shops, you close restaurants, bars, cafes, schools.

that just has another huge impact on the young who then have no jobs, no income, people then lose their homes, they can’t afford to essentials, quality of life for the masses who are the future of the country dips. Kids miss out on yet more education, we maybe lose a small generation of potential dr’s scientists which has a long term impact.

As I say, at some point you have to get back to some sort of normality while doing all you can to save as many as possible.

Reminds me of conundrum, should a man in a car with his small children swerve and potentially kill a pedestrian on the street to save his children, or not swerve and potentially kill his whole family. Morally it may seem wrong to kill an innocent bystander, but logically it makes most sense as horrible as it sounds. obviously easier for me to think this way given I’m younger and it affects me less, but you have to way your the pro and cons and the impact to youth is going to be hard if we go into another lockdown.

So your solution is let's do normal even though its shown to be a huge problem.

My answer to you is if I offered you the following would you accept?

You can live normally but I will kill your parents. They are only going to die of covid and will suffer in isolation till they do so if I kill them ow you can be normal.

Would you accept that?