I sort of agree with Shandy - but the Labour party cannot be seen to be abandoning anybody. They need to find the core values that the liberally minded can get behind and hopefully hammer them home in the traditional areas that the core values are good for all. Hopefully that will turn them around.
Off Topic Politics Thread
- Thread starter ChilcoSaint
- Start date
-
Please bear with us on the new site integration and fixing any known bugs over the coming days. If you can not log in please try resetting your password and check your spam box. If you have tried these steps and are still struggling email [email protected] with your username/registered email address
-
I feel very sad for Hartlepool having just elected a Conservative MP. I suppose two things persuaded them to swing that way - the vaccine coming online and of course the B word. Other than that how does the electorate there manage to identify with the values and policies (we know the current Government make them up on the hoof) of Rees-Mogg, Johnson, Williamson, Raab, Patel, et al? Let's just hope Scotland has given the Tories a big battering.
I suspect one problem is that a lot of former Labour voters are not particularly socially liberal (dislike of immigration, the EU, foreigners in general, LGBT rights, wokeness, and political correctness etc.) and those sets of values are catered for best by the Conservatives, promoted incessantly by much of the press, and microtargetted online by well-funded right wing organisations. Add in a dislike of being told what to do and it's bloody hard to get any sort of progressive agenda in front of them, let alone heard or believed.
My wording was possibly slightly aggressive with amputate to be fair.
A very savage word indeed, but perhaps that is what is needed to shake Labour out of its downward spiral. As for the Lib Dems, they appear set for oblivion!!!
If they can't win in both, then they can't win a majority in the country can they? So England is going to be Tory in perpetuity. What a prospect.
They need to get real and work with other left/centre opposition parties.
I already believe it is impossible for them to win a majority under FPTP (it has been ever since they lost Scotland to the SNP) and I think it is time they recognised it and used a more innovative approach.
Funnily enough looking at the early council election results in the North East, the Lib Dem’s appear to have done very well, surprisingly.
The Greens are making major advances too.
Labour are getting pincered.
It was based on last night's by-election results but the pattern for the Lib Dems still seems to be downward but we shall see later today in places like Eastleigh and Winchester, former LD strongholds. Talking of elections, one of the biggest in Spain is that of Madrid. The PP, a Conservative party, almost got an outright majority, Ciudadnos, who came on the scene a decade ago as a centrist unioniist party that gradually shifted to the right were totally wiped out. The conundrum for the PP is do they go it alone or seek an alliance with the far-right VOX. If they have any sense, they will go it alone as the opposition themselves are quite divided.
Labour no longer stand for anything. The conservatives are the party of pragmatism. For them having no specific ideology other than wealth makes wealth works. Labour have to be grounded in clear ideology to stand against them. I have seen nothing resembling ideology since Corbyn left.
If by pragmatism you mean making it up as you go along I agree with you.
The only ideology that unites the Tories is unionism and if the SNP gets a majority this ideology will be tested against the democratic will - if a simple majority is allowed to take us out of Europe how can they stand in the way of Scotland expressing the same desire to be out of the Union. Whether they care if the are hypocritical on this matter I think not - I think they will just brush it aside.
Labour can stand for things - the problem is they have to choose, then be unified behind that choice and not attack each other in public. The problem then is getting that message out through the propaganda wall of the media.
You must log in or register to see media
I followed this link from the fiver's letters section in the Guardian http://www.quinkyart.com/p/euro-2020-wallchart.html . Besides being a worthy cause this caught my eye as an example of the ****ing triumph (© Vin) brexit is and will continue to be. "Due to Brexit making delivery to the EU about twice as expensive and much more laborious thanks to the customs certificates, I am restricting this year’s wallcharts to the UK only."
The letter “I’ve made another wallchart to raise money for the Luton & Dunstable Hospital NICU (who cared for my daughter when she was born) – any chance you could give it a mention in The Fiver please? Since I started doing them back in World Cup 2010, we’ve raised over £28,000 for the hospital – all the info on how to order is here. Thanks so much” – Elliott Quince.
And. Today’s winner of our prizeless letter o’the day is … Elliott Quince.
The letter “I’ve made another wallchart to raise money for the Luton & Dunstable Hospital NICU (who cared for my daughter when she was born) – any chance you could give it a mention in The Fiver please? Since I started doing them back in World Cup 2010, we’ve raised over £28,000 for the hospital – all the info on how to order is here. Thanks so much” – Elliott Quince.
And. Today’s winner of our prizeless letter o’the day is … Elliott Quince.
Sadly, this is likely to be pretty close to the truth ......
I didn’t think I could get much more depressed than I was after the Brexit vote, but today I’m just finished. The voters in this country are just too much. I am staggered that open corruption, backhanders and destruction of the economy (cleverly hidden so far .... it’ll be interesting to see what feelings are like in a years time) makes not a jot of difference. The opposition are too busy arguing about what they should do with half of them looking backwards and hankering after Corbyn (who was never going to win) and the other half unsure about Starmer and what they stand for.
I’m not sure I see a way back now. We’re stuck with the ERG led ultra right wing government and can look forward to more privatisation of the NHS, more “austerity” (tax cuts for the rich though) and a further increase in food banks. As my good friend, Vin, would say “what a ****ing triumph”
SNP one short of an absolute majority, but the 8 Green MSP’s will support independence.
Can't see Johnson allowing it in any circumstance honestly, I also don't think the Scottish Government would win if they tried to force it through court. Whether that's technically great democratically or going to do much for Scotland-UK relations is another matter.
Personally I find the SNP every bit as disingenuous and manipulative as the Conservatives, despite the more liberal angle and feel they are promising an independent Scotland that they can't deliver in the same way the Brexiteers promised a Brexit they couldn't deliver. We are in the worst of all worlds at the mo, well maybe except Wales.
This is terrible! Southampton folk should hang their heads in shame voting for such a regressive party. You would have thought that there were similarites between Southampton and Hamburg. Both are ports, both are university cities, both are cities with a healthy immigrant populations. However, when it comes to elections Hamburg folk leave the citizens of Southampton in the dark ages, for they voted for progressive parties, mainly the Greens!! And other parts of the former FDR are also going that way. UK polítics, in contraste, has a lot of catching up to do in terms of voting, FPTP is so 19th Century, and in having a better educated and more informed populace .
Last edited:
Great result. At least the Scots didn't succumb to the weasel words of Johnson! Let's bring independece on!
The same phenomena is manifesting itself in Scotland as in England. Nationalism is a retreat into the failed politics of previous centuries, and only rascals drape themselves in flags of any colour.
Only Wales emerges head held high, among the home nations. Ironically, given they have easily the best flag