Off Topic The Politics Thread

[ELLERS]

Might as well try again. What punch would you have suggested he land? The bloke has a near impossible task if he is apparently not sticking to principles yet the voters he needs can’t get enough of his opponent never having stuck to a principle in his life.

Fail again. It’s you who doesnt understand.
In Starmers early days he decided to be a Remainer then a Brexitier? He thought it was good idea to not support the government during a national crisis. He whipped his MPs to abstain on the Tier system vote. He chops and changes with the weather and got the name ‘Captain Hindsight’. In PMQs when Boris is in a tight spot he never follows it up with the killer blow. I can think of many more silly political point scoring games he has played including with the vaccine rollout.
He is a cr2p opposition leader and people see through him.
You stick to your stupid idea that all Tory voters a white 50+ gammons and keep wandering why Labour won’t get re elected for years.

 

[Goldhawk-Road]

A disgruntled James O'Blimey claiming that if the Labour Party was led by anyone else, it would be 20 points ahead in the polls. I said Lisa Nandy after Grandpa left. No one listened!

 

[Star of David Bardsley]

Fail again. It’s you who doesnt understand.
In Starmers early days he decided to be a Remainer then a Brexitier? He thought it was good idea to not support the government during a national crisis. He whipped his MPs to abstain on the Tier system vote. He chops and changes with the weather and got the name ‘Captain Hindsight’. In PMQs when Boris is in a tight spot he never follows it up with the killer blow. I can think of many more silly political point scoring games he has played including with the vaccine rollout.
He is a cr2p opposition leader and people see through him.
You stick to your stupid idea that all Tory voters a white 50+ gammons and keep wandering why Labour won’t get re elected for years.

I didn’t say all Tory voters are white 50+ gammons but without the white 50+ gammon vote no party has a chance, hence that demographic being so consistently pandered to. I’m well aware why Labour are unlikely to get re-elected any time soon as I’ve discussed with you before.

When he (or anyone) dares suggest Brexit isn’t quite all it was meant to be it’s met with an absolute barrage of nonsense about democracy. While I’d rather he stuck to calling a spade a spade, he has less hope winning over those he needs by doing that.

 

[ELLERS]

I didn’t say all Tory voters are white 50+ gammons but without the white 50+ gammon vote no party has a chance, hence that demographic being so consistently pandered to. I’m well aware why Labour are unlikely to get re-elected any time soon as I’ve discussed with you before.

When he (or anyone) dares suggest Brexit isn’t quite all it was meant to be it’s met with an absolute barrage of nonsense about democracy. While I’d rather he stuck to calling a spade a spade, he has less hope winning over those he needs by doing that.

I’m not actually discussing Brexit here. I am discussing that Starmer. However he chops and changes his mind to try and win votes... bring out the flags!
He should have principles and stick by his guns. I voted Brexit and will own it win or lose. I don’t campaign to remain and have a losers vote and then decided I am some brexiter.
The were two fab posts on here a while back regarding Labour. One was from Staines regarding its true values and one from Goldie regarding the split in Labour. It would probably do you good to revisit them before belittling Tory voters.

 

[Stroller]

I didn’t say all Tory voters are white 50+ gammons but without the white 50+ gammon vote no party has a chance, hence that demographic being so consistently pandered to. I’m well aware why Labour are unlikely to get re-elected any time soon as I’ve discussed with you before.

When he (or anyone) dares suggest Brexit isn’t quite all it was meant to be it’s met with an absolute barrage of nonsense about democracy. While I’d rather he stuck to calling a spade a spade, he has less hope winning over those he needs by doing that.

With the demise of UKIP, the working-class racist vote has gone to the Tories. Starmer can't win them over, nor should he try.

 

[ELLERS]

With the demise of UKIP, the working-class racist vote has gone to the Tories. Starmer can't win them over, nor should he try.

Plenty of UKIP supporters were life long Labour voters. Again you miss the point.

 

[Star of David Bardsley]

I’m not actually discussing Brexit here. I am discussing that Starmer. However he chops and changes his mind to try and win votes... bring out the flags!
He should have principles and stick by his guns. I voted Brexit and will own it win or lose. I don’t campaign to remain and have a losers vote and then decided I am some brexiter.
The were two fab posts on here a while back regarding Labour. One was from Staines regarding its true values and one from Goldie regarding the split in Labour. It would probably do you good to revisit them before belittling Tory voters.

It will be refreshing when you start to own it. Little sign of that thus far.

The bloke has to try and win votes. That’s his job. We live in an archaic system where his opponent has an 80-odd seat majority with 40-odd per cent of the vote.

 

[bobmid]

There's certain things Ellers says that I agree with and it sums up the state of politics in this country. Labour is losing quite a lot of support (myself included) as they just don't represent the people they used to. Jeremy Corbyn was a weak candidate who never seemed to fight back over the media propaganda destruction of him. Starmer really should be destroying Johnson after all the **** we have witnessed under this government, but he isn't and that picture is a cheap stunt and a waste of time, infact it's quite infuriating as someone who wants to see this government overturned. The Tories are all about themselves and their rich buddies, everyone knows that. Johnson is full of **** and lies on a daily basis, his ministers are some of the most inexperienced weak people I've seen in my time. BUT they can do what they like, when they like with little to no consequences due to the state of their main opposition. People will reap what they sow.

 

[ELLERS]

It will be refreshing when you start to own it. Little sign of that thus far.

The bloke has to try and win votes. That’s his job. We live in an archaic system where his opponent has an 80-odd seat majority with 40-odd per cent of the vote.

 

[Star of David Bardsley]

Try debating.

 

[ELLERS]

Try debating.

I will when I have someone to debate with.... hang on Bob has posted something worth discussing.

 

[ELLERS]

There's certain things Ellers says that I agree with and it sums up the state of politics in this country. Labour is losing quite a lot of support (myself included) as they just don't represent the people they used to. Jeremy Corbyn was a weak candidate who never seemed to fight back over the media propaganda destruction of him. Starmer really should be destroying Johnson after all the **** we have witnessed under this government, but he isn't and that picture is a cheap stunt and a waste of time, infact it's quite infuriating as someone who wants to see this government overturned. The Tories are all about themselves and their rich buddies, everyone knows that. Johnson is full of **** and lies on a daily basis, his ministers are some of the most inexperienced weak people I've seen in my time. BUT they can do what they like, when they like with little to no consequences due to the state of their main opposition. People will reap what they sow.

I agree Bob, Labour should be ripping a new one into the Government but Starmer never goes for the big punch.
For me Labour has lost its identity. It seems split between the old and new and is not adapting to today’s society or listening to its long term voters. The Tories seem to have moved to the right ( even further than I like) but they have made that decision and stuck to it. People know what they are getting.
Last night I watched 10mins of question time and they had a fella on there describing Boris. He said for all his faults mistakes lies blah blah blah people will still vote for him. They know what they get with him whereas they don’t with Starmer.

 

[bobmid]

I agree Bob, Labour should be ripping a new one into the Government but Starmer never goes for the big punch.
For me Labour has lost its identity. It seems split between the old and new and is not adapting to today’s society or listening to its long term voters. The Tories seem to have moved to the right ( even further than I like) but they have made that decision and stuck to it. People know what they are getting.
Last night I watched 10mins of question time and they had a fella on there describing Boris. He said for all his faults mistakes lies blah blah blah people will still vote for him. They know what they get with him whereas they don’t with Starmer.

As much as I want to I can't really disagree with any of that to be fair.

 

[YorkshireHoopster]

There's certain things Ellers says that I agree with and it sums up the state of politics in this country. Labour is losing quite a lot of support (myself included) as they just don't represent the people they used to. Jeremy Corbyn was a weak candidate who never seemed to fight back over the media propaganda destruction of him. Starmer really should be destroying Johnson after all the **** we have witnessed under this government, but he isn't and that picture is a cheap stunt and a waste of time, infact it's quite infuriating as someone who wants to see this government overturned. The Tories are all about themselves and their rich buddies, everyone knows that. Johnson is full of **** and lies on a daily basis, his ministers are some of the most inexperienced weak people I've seen in my time. BUT they can do what they like, when they like with little to no consequences due to the state of their main opposition. People will reap what they sow.

Nail on head Bob. I despair when I see the calibre of politicians on all sides but especially the Labour Party. But then I have ever since they royally ****ed up their chance to defeat Brexit. End result? It's over and we have to get on with things. TBF we are living in very strange times and Boris is reaping the reward that finally they got it spectacularly right with regard to the vaccine rollout. So what does HM Opposition do? Can't do much about Covid and he is right to keep quiet about Brexit. But is there an effective opposition out there to fight and argue the case for a fairer society? Only a fool would say there is. Corbyn is a man who thinks he is a demagogue (but never was, in reality) who had no grasp of realpolitik or any intellectual prowess or powers of oratory. Starmer should have but has failed miserably to show it so far. A time must come surely when the interests of minorities (some of whom are very small indeed) have to yield in priority to the wider interests of society as a whole. To me it has always been more important that people should be able to put food on the table, have work to do in jobs that will enable them to be better off than that they should be able to declare their pansexuality or ensure that they have an equal voice and representation.

Blair, for all his many and obvious faults knew that the way to achieve greater social justice was to win votes, win over and carry the majority with him and introduce changes on a piecemeal basis. Keep the majority happy and prosperous and you can then take steps to diversify and increase opportunities for all. It's not bloody rocket science.

 

[ELLERS]

Nail on head Bob. I despair when I see the calibre of politicians on all sides but especially the Labour Party. But then I have ever since they royally ****ed up their chance to defeat Brexit. End result? It's over and we have to get on with things. TBF we are living in very strange times and Boris is reaping the reward that finally they got it spectacularly right with regard to the vaccine rollout. So what does HM Opposition do? Can't do much about Covid and he is right to keep quiet about Brexit. But is there an effective opposition out there to fight and argue the case for a fairer society? Only a fool would say there is. Corbyn is a man who thinks he is a demagogue (but never was, in reality) who had no grasp of realpolitik or any intellectual prowess or powers of oratory. Starmer should have but has failed miserably to show it so far. A time must come surely when the interests of minorities (some of whom are very small indeed) have to yield in priority to the wider interests of society as a whole. To me it has always been more important that people should be able to put food on the table, have work to do in jobs that will enable them to be better off than that they should be able to declare their pansexuality or ensure that they have an equal voice and representation.

Blair, for all his many and obvious faults knew that the way to achieve greater social justice was to win votes, win over and carry the majority with him and introduce changes on a piecemeal basis. Keep the majority happy and prosperous and you can then take steps to diversify and increase opportunities for all. It's not bloody rocket science.

When Blair beat the Tories he basically did what Boris is doing now. Back then even the most ardent Tory (me ) knew we would lose to Labour. Our party had become stale and run by old Oxford bods in grey suits (mostly white men). It was time for a change and Blair picked up many floating and new voters. He had a decent team including a very good PR machine. Something I think both parties lack (PR).
You mentioned Brexit and I agree it may have been a different result if Jezza actually committed to a side ( we know he was always a leaver). Maybe he was the wrong leader?

Going forward... by the way I do always like a strong opposition. Labour need to do a bit of soul searching.
When you hear life long Labour voters in Hartlepool say they are voting Tory you have to ask why, rather than have Labour voters on here say that ‘Hartlepool is a sh2thole anyway”? People can only call voters gammon/woke/thick uneducated for so long before they are actually the thick uneducated ones who really don’t understand.

 

[YorkshireHoopster]

When Blair beat the Tories he basically did what Boris is doing now. Back then even the most ardent Tory (me ) knew we would lose to Labour. Our party had become stale and run by old Oxford bods in grey suits (mostly white men). It was time for a change and Blair picked up many floating and new voters. He had a decent team including a very good PR machine. Something I think both parties lack (PR).
You mentioned Brexit and I agree it may have been a different result if Jezza actually committed to a side ( we know he was always a leaver). Maybe he was the wrong leader?

Going forward... by the way I do always like a strong opposition. Labour need to do a bit of soul searching.
When you hear life long Labour voters in Hartlepool say they are voting Tory you have to ask why, rather than have Labour voters on here say that ‘Hartlepool is a sh2thole anyway”? People can only call voters gammon/woke/thick uneducated for so long before they are actually the thick uneducated ones who really don’t understand.

Yes. As you know by now I try to stay clear of the labelling. I only have to correct you on one minor point of detail. I have stayed in Hartlepool a number of times and have some good clients there. It is by no means a **** hole. Cheap yes. Unpretentious most definitely. But the housing stock and inhabitants generally decent.. It certainly would not be in my top 10 of places I would hate to live. I think we did that subject a while ago but for me, Slough, Dartford, Maidstone, Hull and Grimsby at no1 would have to be in that list.

 

[ELLERS]

Yes. As you know by now I try to stay clear of the labelling. I only have to correct you on one minor point of detail. I have stayed in Hartlepool a number of times and have some good clients there. It is by no means a **** hole. Cheap yes. Unpretentious most definitely. But the housing stock and inhabitants generally decent.. It certainly would not be in my top 10 of places I would hate to live. I think we did that subject a while ago but for me, Slough, Dartford, Maidstone, Hull and Grimsby at no1 would have to be in that list.

I wasn’t referring to you regarding the comments on Hartlepool. I was just using that as an example of how people miss the point.

Recently Mr Starmer was confronted by some fella outside a pub and was ushered away as if the mans comments weren’t worth listening to. Even Jezza (for all his faults) would have stayed and talked to the fella. This is one of the problems facing Labour... listening to why people are P’d off. If politicians can’t even listen to your gripes, why would you ever vote for them?

 

[Star of David Bardsley]

I wasn’t referring to you regarding the comments on Hartlepool. I was just using that as an example of how people miss the point.

Recently Mr Starmer was confronted by some fella outside a pub and was ushered away as if the mans comments weren’t worth listening to. Even Jezza (for all his faults) would have stayed and talked to the fella. This is one of the problems facing Labour... listening to why people are P’d off. If politicians can’t even listen to your gripes, why would you ever vote for them?

He was confronted by an anti-lockdown raving lunatic who made an absolute **** of himself on television the following day. There might be a point in there but that’s a terrible example. Starmer at least had the coolness to hand the bloke back his glasses rather than run for the nearest fridge.

 

[rangercol]

I always find it fascinating the way those whose political views are to the left of centre left, always struggle to understand why so many people disagree with their world view.
We saw it with the blind support of Corbyn, with supporters absolutely positive that the majority of people supported the own country hating communist.
Then, when he suffered one of the worst election defeats ever, his supporters were left dumbfounded.
They always blame the media, or the system (worked for labour under Blair) or "gammons" or the older generation or...or....or...
They never seem to get the fact that maybe, just maybe the majority of fair minded people in this country don't agree with them.

 

[ELLERS]

I always find it fascinating the way those whose political views are to the left of centre left, always struggle to understand why so many people disagree with their world view.
We saw it with the blind support of Corbyn, with supporters absolutely positive that the majority of people supported the own country hating communist.
Then, when he suffered one of the worst election defeats ever, his supporters were left dumbfounded.
They always blame the media, or the system (worked for labour under Blair) or "gammons" or the older generation or...or....or...
They never seem to get the fact that maybe, just maybe the majority of fair minded people in this country don't agree with them.

Sadly there are some who just mock or are detrimental to voters because they didn't vote the way they did... like they are of some higher intellect and know better. Truth is these people can't see further than their nose.