question for athiests

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PleaseNotPoll said:
When did I say that?
I said that your answer to the question that you've posed to atheist is already known, because you're a Muslim and it's part of your religion.

so you made an implication/assumption? you go on about science allows questioning, so can i not simply ask out of curiosity?

I'm sure that this has already been answered by various people on this thread.
Why are you asking it again?

am asking you, not various people and i just wanted to be clear

He could.
Feel free to provide some evidence that he does.
I don't think I need to prove that matter exists, do I?

no but if you could provide evidence of something originating from nothing that would be game over i think
of course if everything needs a source, then that source is its creator. no?




Is there a difference between Classical Arabic and Quranic Arabic?

just clarifying, so there is no disputes later, quranic arabic is written slightly different for ease of pronunciation

You haven't put forward anything.
You've made a claim.
Provide a link to somewhere that backs up that claim.
Anywhere would be a start.
A non-biased site would be preferable, but it's probably unlikely.
Click to expand...

the question was where in the quran does it mention that, i have given reference and provided a translation. of course you can prove it is wrong
 
PleaseNotPoll said:
I'll ignore the rest of your crap for a moment and just focus on the utter crap that you've spouted here.

Atheism doesn't have any theories.
I've told you this a ridiculous number of times.
Atheism is the rejection of theistic claims about the existence of a god or gods.
You can be an atheist and believe that dragons created the world from their arse, as long as you don't think that those dragons were gods.

Why can't you understand this?
Click to expand...

ok and i will ignore the rest of your argument and focus on the highlighted bit

athiesm does have theories, even by your admission. AND by your admission they are not reliable

ps this isnt about what is athiesm? its ......**** it reread the OP
 
thefanwithnoname said:
so you made an implication/assumption? you go on about science allows questioning, so can i not simply ask out of curiosity?
Click to expand...

You've totally lost track of your own point, here.
I never claimed that you couldn't ask the question.

thefanwithnoname said:
am asking you, not various people and i just wanted to be clear
Click to expand...

And I've already answered.
I don't speak for all atheists, though.

thefanwithnoname said:
no but if you could provide evidence of something originating from nothing that would be game over i think
of course if everything needs a source, then that source is its creator. no?
Click to expand...

Demonstrate that everything needs a source.

This is just another 'everything is created, therefore everything needs a creator, er... except God!' argument.

thefanwithnoname said:
the question was where in the quran does it mention that, i have given reference and provided a translation. of course you can prove it is wrong
Click to expand...

Are you talking about these two quotes?

(Quran 65.12) Allah is the one who created seven heavens and from Earth like them (of corresponding type); [Allah’s] command descends among them (heavens and earths) so that you may know that Allah is capable of anything and that Allah knows everything.

(Quran 42.29) And from His signs He created the heavens and the Earth; and the land animals that He scattered in BOTH of them (heavens and Earth); And He is capable of gathering them (in one place) if He wishes.

Neither of them mention anything like what you've claimed.
 
thefanwithnoname said:
athiesm does have theories, even by your admission. AND by your admission they are not reliable
Click to expand...

No.
Atheism is the rejection of theistic claims.
That's it.

A Buddhist atheist may have entirely different views on the origins of the universe to a Pagan one, for example.

Why is this so hard for you to accept?
 
PleaseNotPoll said:
You've totally lost track of your own point, here.
I never claimed that you couldn't ask the question.



And I've already answered.
I don't speak for all atheists, though.



Demonstrate that everything needs a source.

This is just another 'everything is created, therefore everything needs a creator, er... except God!' argument.



Are you talking about these two quotes?

(Quran 65.12) Allah is the one who created seven heavens and from Earth like them (of corresponding type); [Allah’s] command descends among them (heavens and earths) so that you may know that Allah is capable of anything and that Allah knows everything.

(Quran 42.29) And from His signs He created the heavens and the Earth; and the land animals that He scattered in BOTH of them (heavens and Earth); And He is capable of gathering them (in one place) if He wishes.

Neither of them mention anything like what you've claimed.
Click to expand...

well I cant think of/dont know of anything that doesnt have a source
and as gfar as i am aware/know everything has a creator, unless you can show me something

Those two quotes were given and subsequently explained (tafsir if you will) you are welcome to check back

again I will refer you to the OP, with a change to 'creation' , any theories
 
If heaven is full of sandal wearing smelly bearded bare arse left hand wiping anti semites............ You can keep it
 
thefanwithnoname said:
well I cant think of/dont know of anything that doesnt have a source
and as gfar as i am aware/know everything has a creator, unless you can show me something
Click to expand...

How about matter and energy?
In your belief, how about god?

thefanwithnoname said:
Those two quotes were given and subsequently explained (tafsir if you will) you are welcome to check back
Click to expand...

You explained them without references.
The quotes didn't appear to contain the information that you suggested that they did and you made unsupported claims about them afterwards.

thefanwithnoname said:
again I will refer you to the OP, with a change to 'creation' , any theories
Click to expand...

I reject the question.
The idea that there is a start to the universe(s?) is unproven.

Others have offered various theories.
This proves you're wrong about atheism, for a start.
 
PleaseNotPoll said:
No.
Atheism is the rejection of theistic claims.
That's it.

A Buddhist atheist may have entirely different views on the origins of the universe to a Pagan one, for example.

Why is this so hard for you to accept?
Click to expand...

Its not hard

For me a buddhist is not athiest in the true sense, buddha was athiest. modern day buddhists not so i think

True athiesm is not imo a rejection of theism, that to me is anti god. True athiesm doesnt concern itself with theism at all

but, and this is the question in the OP, atheists do concern themselves with how it all started. This is NOT a relgious or theist question
The answers can be theist, but no way is the question related to religion.

The theories put forward, are ludicrous
 
PleaseNotPoll said:
How about matter and energy?
In your belief, how about god?

In my belief, based on the knowledge that everything has a source, matter and energy must have a source. Not only that but the universe (planets sun stars etc etc) must have developed from a source.
What you call that source is not important initially.

You explained them without references.
The quotes didn't appear to contain the information that you suggested that they did and you made unsupported claims about them afterwards.

I actually did go into it after, They are passages from the quran and I broke it down


I reject the question.
The idea that there is a start to the universe(s?) is unproven.

so how do you think it all started?

Others have offered various theories.
This proves you're wrong about atheism, for a start.
Click to expand...

no from what i have sen its all been deflection
 
thefanwithnoname said:
Its not hard

For me a buddhist is not athiest in the true sense, buddha was athiest. modern day buddhists not so i think

True athiesm is not imo a rejection of theism, that to me is anti god. True athiesm doesnt concern itself with theism at all
Click to expand...

You're redefining atheism to suit some bizarre end.
You don't get to chose who's an atheist.
Sorry.
If someone doesn't believe in a god or gods, then by definition they are an atheist.

thefanwithnoname said:
atheists do concern themselves with how it all started. This is NOT a relgious or theist question
The answers can be theist, but no way is the question related to religion.

The theories put forward, are ludicrous
Click to expand...

Totally irrelevant.
The theories could all be completely untrue and it wouldn't give any weight at all to yours.
 
<laugh>"For me a buddhist is not athiest in the true sense, buddha was athiest. modern day buddhists not so i think"
 
thefanwithnoname said:
In my belief, based on the knowledge that everything has a source, matter and energy must have a source. Not only that but the universe (planets sun stars etc etc) must have developed from a source.
What you call that source is not important initially.
Click to expand...

So in your belief, god must have a source then.
What's the source of god?

thefanwithnoname said:
I actually did go into it after, They are passages from the quran and I broke it down
Click to expand...

You explained your own interpretation of it.
You didn't show any form of outside backing for that interpretation and it's clearly not self-evident.

thefanwithnoname said:
so how do you think it all started?
Click to expand...

As I've already stated, I don't know that there was a start.

thefanwithnoname said:
no from what i have sen its all been deflection
Click to expand...

So nobody has offered any theories on here about the start of the universe?
That's clearly untrue.
 
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