Off Topic The Environmental & Pollution Thread

[PompeyLapras]

Apparently, HS2 isn't about reducing journey times but increasing capacity so more of the intercity lines will be shifted to there, allowing more of the existing track capacity to be used for local routes and freight, thereby reducing the amount of lorries on the roads and increasing the frequency and punctuality of local services hopefully leading to more people using the train to travel, in theory.

 

[Beddy]

Apparently, HS2 isn't about reducing journey times but increasing capacity so more of the intercity lines will be shifted to there, allowing more of the existing track capacity to be used for local routes and freight, thereby reducing the amount of lorries on the roads and increasing the frequency and punctuality of local services hopefully leading to more people using the train to travel, in theory.

Hm not sure this will lead to more people using the train to travel mate. Certainly not until they cut the prices anyway for travel!!

 

[Beddy]

Makes perfect sense. So we don't do it!

Course it is ....that is why we we don't do it................

 

[PompeyLapras]

Hm not sure this will lead to more people using the train to travel mate. Certainly not until they cut the prices anyway for travel!!

True, true. Train travel is pretty ridiculous, although in the west Midlands for local journeys it's not too bad . The south does get shafted by train fares though and don't get me started on the intercity fares (although split ticketing is great and I'd advise everyone to use it)

 

[davecg69]

This is a seriously scary read - long, but well worth it.

https://www.rollingstone.com/cultur...lTwfNW3nMEq_J2-ZxfpOjVIcGs_rQkwntzfDqqYc2slyk

 

[StJabbo1]

This is a seriously scary read - long, but well worth it.

https://www.rollingstone.com/cultur...lTwfNW3nMEq_J2-ZxfpOjVIcGs_rQkwntzfDqqYc2slyk

Oh dear so we're ****ed then? Well not really but a good dose of reality especially for those who may give the conspiraloon covidiot antivaxxer crackpots credence.

There's no going back to 'normal' whatever that maybe. We'll be vaccinating and testing for CV and whatever other nasties evolve due to human interference with the balance of the planet.

 

[davecg69]

Oh dear so we're ****ed then? Well not really but a good dose of reality especially for those who may give the conspiraloon covidiot antivaxxer crackpots credence.

There's no going back to 'normal' whatever that maybe. We'll be vaccinating and testing for CV and whatever other nasties evolve due to human interference with the balance of the planet.

Yep - and everyone who says global warming isn’t an issue better get ready ..... I read a very interesting article a few years ago by a well respected virologist which warned of exactly this.

 

[Schrodinger's Cat]

On the subject of transport, I've recently bought a 2nd hand Renault Zoe and got shot of my diesel. Not done many miles yet but its fun to drive and enough range (75 miles on a charge) for my purposes. Paid about 7k plus a few hundred for a home charger.
I've no intention of ever going back to diesel or petrol again, and am looking forward to one day getting my hands on something a bit more sporty.
It was also good to find out that I can get 7 bags of potting compost in the boot without even putting the seats down, so pretty practical if you can live with the limited range.
I can program the charger so that it will prioritise using solar generated electricity to charge the car when available so on sunny days, my motoring will be virtually free if I can leave it plugged in whilst the sun shines.

 

[milton archer]

On the subject of transport, I've recently bought a 2nd hand Renault Zoe and got shot of my diesel. Not done many miles yet but its fun to drive and enough range (75 miles on a charge) for my purposes. Paid about 7k plus a few hundred for a home charger.
I've no intention of ever going back to diesel or petrol again, and am looking forward to one day getting my hands on something a bit more sporty.
It was also good to find out that I can get 7 bags of potting compost in the boot without even putting the seats down, so pretty practical if you can live with the limited range.
I can program the charger so that it will prioritise using solar generated electricity to charge the car when available so on sunny days, my motoring will be virtually free if I can leave it plugged in whilst the sun shines.

Damn.....I was almost persuaded but I always buy my. Abs of potting compost in eights!

 

[davecg69]

Government sneaks through a reduction in the EV grant from £3,000 to £2,500 and reduces the threshold from £50,000 to £35,000. That means the new VW, Skoda, Ford and several other models will now be £3,000 more, thus reducing demand, I imagine. Now, a cynic such as I might start to wonder quite why, when the rest of the world (even the US, though Tesla have most of that market) are moving more to EVs, this little country might go against the trend and could it be that there is more money to be made from oil, HS2 etc and they don’t want to spend on improving the electrical infrastructure, but I’m sure it’s not that ..........

 

[SaintStu]

I agree the government has made a bit of a counter-initiative move - but there are lots of arguments given that car manufacturers are keeping EV prices artificially high, and you can see that by how many bring out cars around but just under the 50k mark. I saw a youtube video only yesterday where essentially the same car in India (a Dacia/Renault) was 10k cheaper in India then in the EU. Battery advancements are such that they are close to point where it is cheaper to produce an EV than an ICE equivalent, but again the EV is higher, yes to cover R&D but also that they can continue to sell their ICE models.
Completion from manufacturers in China will soon force prices down.
Buy now get the bigger grant, or wait a bit for cheaper and hopefully better cars.

 

[StJabbo1]

I agree the government has made a bit of a counter-initiative move - but there are lots of arguments given that car manufacturers are keeping EV prices artificially high, and you can see that by how many bring out cars around but just under the 50k mark. I saw a youtube video only yesterday where essentially the same car in India (a Dacia/Renault) was 10k cheaper in India then in the EU. Battery advancements are such that they are close to point where it is cheaper to produce an EV than an ICE equivalent, but again the EV is higher, yes to cover R&D but also that they can continue to sell their ICE models.
Completion from manufacturers in China will soon force prices down.
Buy now get the bigger grant, or wait a bit for cheaper and hopefully better cars.

It's an evolving technology deciding when to make the leap depends on the situation and needs for the individual and families. We're still on peddle power over here in the Netherland but the EB market is big just not needed for us at the moment.

 

[SaintStu]

Off course don't buy a car, any car if you have a greener alternative or have good life in your existing car and it fits with your current life choices - As 2030 approaches the incentives may become sticks rather than carrots though.

 

[San Tejón]

I will start by saying that I am absolutely clueless about electric cars, so be gentle with me if this comes across as daft.
Does the government actually have a proper plan for all cars becoming electric?
If electric cars are forced onto the population, who will be financially responsible for the installation of safe charging points at home, installed at a standard fair price?
And what steps would be taken for people who don’t have off road parking?
Are there plans for the government to install road side chargers in heavily populated areas with on road parking only, or will these people have to go to charging points (ie a garage) which will probably cost more than if they could charge the car at home?
Would roadside chargers, in heavily populated areas, cost more than if you could plug into your own domestic supply, making it more expensive?
Can we trust the idiots in our society not to interfere with roadside chargers or unplug cars that are charging?

It seems to me that anyone with off-road parking will be fine, but those without might end up paying a premium.

 

[Big Ern]

Did you know that making 1x100kw battery for an EV costs 20 tonnes of CO2, and rising with every new mine? to equate that to fuel for a car, roughly 60-80,000miles+

 

[davecg69]

Did you know that making 1x100kw battery for an EV costs 20 tonnes of CO2, and rising with every new mine? to equate that to fuel for a car, roughly 60-80,000miles+

Trying to find that info, Ern, but I’m still looking. Yes, I agree that, currently, there’s an issue, but, if a proper government plan was in place (and Badger makes excellent points about charging points, etc) it could work. However, as, at the moment, the majority of our electricity comes from non-renewables (even after coal is phased out, the government wants to replace with nuclear or fracked oil/gas), there is an issue. I found this quote from the Union of concerned scientists “Manufacturing a mid-sized EV with an 84-mile range results in about 15 percent more emissions than manufacturing an equivalent gasoline vehicle. For larger, longer-range EVs that travel more than 250 miles per charge, the manufacturing emissions can be as much as 68 percent higher.”
However, as battery technology improves and, if (big “if” I reckon) a proper plan of infrastructure was put into place, EVs could work and pollution/CO2 reduced ....... however, I think I’ll be long gone by that time.
I have an EV charge point attached to my garage and, in the summer, 100% of my power for it comes from my solar panels, so I’d like to think that I’m pretty “green” IF I go for an EV, but I’m still unconvinced ......

 

[Big Ern]

Trying to find that info, Ern, but I’m still looking. Yes, I agree that, currently, there’s an issue, but, if a proper government plan was in place (and Badger makes excellent points about charging points, etc) it could work. However, as, at the moment, the majority of our electricity comes from non-renewables (even after coal is phased out, the government wants to replace with nuclear or fracked oil/gas), there is an issue. I found this quote from the Union of concerned scientists “Manufacturing a mid-sized EV with an 84-mile range results in about 15 percent more emissions than manufacturing an equivalent gasoline vehicle. For larger, longer-range EVs that travel more than 250 miles per charge, the manufacturing emissions can be as much as 68 percent higher.”
However, as battery technology improves and, if (big “if” I reckon) a proper plan of infrastructure was put into place, EVs could work and pollution/CO2 reduced ....... however, I think I’ll be long gone by that time.
I have an EV charge point attached to my garage and, in the summer, 100% of my power for it comes from my solar panels, so I’d like to think that I’m pretty “green” IF I go for an EV, but I’m still unconvinced ......

My personal opinion is hydrogen, problem with that is storage, you'd get Hollywood car explosions. Another possible solution is post combustion treatment of petrol and diesel. The inescapable fact is that whatever solution we come up with, it's going to have a fairly big downside.

 

[SaintStu]

I will start by saying that I am absolutely clueless about electric cars, so be gentle with me if this comes across as daft.
Does the government actually have a proper plan for all cars becoming electric?
If electric cars are forced onto the population, who will be financially responsible for the installation of safe charging points at home, installed at a standard fair price?
And what steps would be taken for people who don’t have off road parking?
Are there plans for the government to install road side chargers in heavily populated areas with on road parking only, or will these people have to go to charging points (ie a garage) which will probably cost more than if they could charge the car at home?
Would roadside chargers, in heavily populated areas, cost more than if you could plug into your own domestic supply, making it more expensive?
Can we trust the idiots in our society not to interfere with roadside chargers or unplug cars that are charging?

It seems to me that anyone with off-road parking will be fine, but those without might end up paying a premium.

I don't think you will be forced to stop using petrol, but as less and less people use it the cost will go up plus the government is more than likely increase tax on fuel. Plus it is also likely road-tax will increase for all private vehicles. So it will get expensive to stay with petrol.
I think there are incentives currently on discounts on installing home charging stations, some by the power companies and some car manufacturers.
Households without off street parking will have difficulties. There is some discussion of using street lamps as charging points but I think that is unlikely.

Hydrogen will not take over I don't think - maybe for planes. The big car makers have already invested so much into batteries and charging stations I don't think they will do Hydrogen as well.

 

[davecg69]

I don't think you will be forced to stop using petrol, but as less and less people use it the cost will go up plus the government is more than likely increase tax on fuel. Plus it is also likely road-tax will increase for all private vehicles. So it will get expensive to stay with petrol.
I think there are incentives currently on discounts on installing home charging stations, some by the power companies and some car manufacturers.
Households without off street parking will have difficulties. There is some discussion of using street lamps as charging points but I think that is unlikely.

Hydrogen will not take over I don't think - maybe for planes. The big car makers have already invested so much into batteries and charging stations I don't think they will do Hydrogen as well.

Good call, Stu - yeah, I think hydrogen is an issue, as storing is a massive headache, plus I read that you can only fill up quite a small number of vehicles before the system has to pause due to the extreme cold. I used to think hydrogen was the way, but the more I read about massive advances in battery technology, the more I think it’ll have to be electric (perhaps with the advent of self-driving cars we won’t need to have our “own” car, we’ll be able to car-share basically .....). I’m just torn as to whether to change from my current car to get an EV or to wait a year or so ...... I’m leaning towards waiting a little longer, as, even though the MG EVs are very cheap (compared to other EVs), I think we’ll see prices tumbling in a couple of years ...... but I’d like to think that I’m trying to do something for my granddaughter’s future .......

 

[Big Ern]

Good call, Stu - yeah, I think hydrogen is an issue, as storing is a massive headache, plus I read that you can only fill up quite a small number of vehicles before the system has to pause due to the extreme cold. I used to think hydrogen was the way, but the more I read about massive advances in battery technology, the more I think it’ll have to be electric (perhaps with the advent of self-driving cars we won’t need to have our “own” car, we’ll be able to car-share basically .....). I’m just torn as to whether to change from my current car to get an EV or to wait a year or so ...... I’m leaning towards waiting a little longer, as, even though the MG EVs are very cheap (compared to other EVs), I think we’ll see prices tumbling in a couple of years ...... but I’d like to think that I’m trying to do something for my granddaughter’s future ......

Have a read of this.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/danrun...booms-lithium-is-running-out/?sh=4bfcc64f1a44