Off Topic London Calling: Summer Holidays Abroad 2021 in doubt?

[Disco down under]

Unless it supports the government it'll be declared false news or biased media ...

... even Tory MP's comments are dismissed if they point out where mistakes have been made.

People can think what they want, can't they.

These things can never be entirely, inarguably correct.

But they're pretty indicative of the facts.

Pretty sure the Lowry institute lean towards the right in their politics. Not that they will give two ****s about partisan politics across the other side of the world.

 

[The Norton Cat]

People can think what they want, can't they.

These things can never be entirely, inarguably correct.

But they're pretty indicative of the facts.

Pretty sure the Lowry institute lean towards the right in their politics. Not that they will give two shots about partisan politics across the other side of the world.

Some of these studies make very interesting reading. I've read one in the BMJ that quite strongly criticises the scientific advisors and boards such as SAGE. On the other hand, I've also read one by the Reuters Institute/Oxford University that says that the overall response would have been better if media outlets had focused more on the scientific advisors and what they were saying and less on the politicians and their behaviour. I think the reality is that its such a multi-faceted situation that apportioning blame will never be as simple as saying "the government were wrong" or "the scientists were wrong" or even "the public were at fault".

 

[Smug in Boots]

Some of these studies make very interesting reading. I've read one in the BMJ that quite strongly criticises the scientific advisors and boards such as SAGE. On the other hand, I've also read one by the Reuters Institute/Oxford University that says that the overall response would have been better if media outlets had focused more on the scientific advisors and what they were saying and less on the politicians and their behaviour. I think the reality is that its such a multi-faceted situation that apportioning blame will never be as simple as saying "the government were wrong" or "the scientists were wrong" or even "the public were at fault".

I've just read that three times and still have no idea how that could possibly work.

 

[Disco down under]

Some of these studies make very interesting reading. I've read one in the BMJ that quite strongly criticises the scientific advisors and boards such as SAGE. On the other hand, I've also read one by the Reuters Institute/Oxford University that says that the overall response would have been better if media outlets had focused more on the scientific advisors and what they were saying and less on the politicians and their behaviour. I think the reality is that its such a multi-faceted situation that apportioning blame will never be as simple as saying "the government were wrong" or "the scientists were wrong" or even "the public were at fault".

It's all one big situation with a whole lot of moving parts. Its far too simplistic to say a great deal with any kind of certainty. None of us are actually privy to anything that's gone on behind the scenes.

Unfortunately, no one voted the scientists in, and the public don't a really hold institutional power... So guess whose head people are going to want to roll?

Poor BJ had a nightmare of a year with gaffes in front of the media, so he's an especially easy target for criticism. He's got no one but himself to blame for that.

 

[Disco down under]

I've just read that three times and still have no idea how that could possibly work.

We wouldn't have been getting dumb advice from a clown who basically wanted the country to spit in each other's mouths in the early days of the virus.

Better advice, from a more credible source might have meant people took the whole thing more seriously too.

Hard to say.

 

[Smug in Boots]

We wouldn't have been getting dumb advice from a clown who basically wanted the country to spit in each other's mouths in the early days of the virus.

Better advice, from a more credible source might have meant people took the whole thing more seriously too.

Hard to say.

What Nacho is saying is that the BMJ is criticising the scientific advisors, such as Sage, and Oxford University are criticising the media or whatever.

How could the public possibly decide who's right and which media outlets would they trust to report it.

The buck stops with the elected government, end of story.

 

[DH4]

What Nacho is saying is that the BMJ is criticising the scientific advisors, such as Sage, and Oxford University are criticising the media or whatever.

How could the public possibly decide who's right and which media outlets would they trust to report it.

The buck stops with the elected government, end of story.

Advisors advise governments. Governments decide whether or not to take that advice. Governments make the ultimate decision and therefore carry the can if that decision proves to be poor.

 

[Montysoptician]

Advisors advise governments. Governments decide whether or not to take that advice. Governments make the ultimate decision and therefore carry the can if that decision proves to be poor.

I have BBC Parliament on TV when I am working and a couple of mornings a week the Health and Social Care Select Committee investigating the response to Covid-19 is on

The government’s Chief Scientific Advisor, Sir Patrick Vallance was giving evidence last March and his response to every difficult question was, ”I am there to advise, not to make decisions”. It was damage limitation even at that early stage of the investigation.

 

[Smug in Boots]

There were bad mistakes made when no scientific advice was needed.

There were times when the government gave the public the wrong instructions to follow.

Yet now the defence of the government mistakes is to blame the scientists or the public.

 

[Sunderpitt]

As a non scientist.. probably not much common sense either, but as they say what would have been reasonable actions once it was known a virus similar to flu but more deadly was easily transmitted and coming in from China and Italy.

I would venture to suggest the following to do promptly..

Close borders

Instigate a lockdown

Have test, track and trace... then an incentive/penalty if not isolating.

PPE

Work hard on remedies and vaccine.

There not an expert in sight...

 

[Makemstine Roger]

yet this is what happens in lockdown situations, people who spout on about lockdowns fail to realise that, yet again time to stop this incessant bickering about what should have happened, and get behind the government, who had the foresight to become Europe's leader in the disease control with vaccines, could have should have voices were quite at the start and only started spouting after hindsight.

THIS IS WHAT LOCKDOWS PRODUCE IF YOU ARE TOO STRICT

You must log in or register to see media

 

[Smug in Boots]

yet this is what happens in lockdown situations, people who spout on about lockdowns fail to realise that, yet again time to stop this incessant bickering about what should have happened, and get behind the government, who had the foresight to become Europe's leader in the disease control with vaccines, could have should have voices were quite at the start and only started spouting after hindsight.

THIS IS WHAT LOCKDOWS PRODUCE IF YOU ARE TOO STRICT

You must log in or register to see media

So, stop bickering, you want everyone to agree with you ...

... not everyone does.

 

[rooch 3]

yet this is what happens in lockdown situations, people who spout on about lockdowns fail to realise that, yet again time to stop this incessant bickering about what should have happened, and get behind the government, who had the foresight to become Europe's leader in the disease control with vaccines, could have should have voices were quite at the start and only started spouting after hindsight.

THIS IS WHAT LOCKDOWS PRODUCE IF YOU ARE TOO STRICT

You must log in or register to see media

You are wasting your breath mate left wing loonies have took over this thread by the way that riot was BJs fault

 

[Makemstine Roger]

So, stop bickering, you want everyone to agree with you ...

... not everyone does.

finally you agree you are bickering well that's a turn up, but not everyone tries to fan the flames

 

[Smug in Boots]

finally you agree you are bickering well that's a turn up, but not everyone tries to fan the flames

You're the one who's bickering.

You keep wanting everyone to agree with you otherwise you're claiming people are trying to 'turn the board against the government'.

Why are you so convinced the board is 'for the government', some people obviously aren't, for good reason, and are entitled to their opinions.

I'm not 'fanning the flames' Roger, I'm simply chatting on a chat forum ...

... you want me to do what you're telling me to do.

I won't so get used to it.

 

[Makemstine Roger]

ok to me you do what you want,
I put forward a reason to get behind the government, regarding vaccinations, since i put up those reason I've seen no disagreements'
then lockdowns, I showed what's happening all over Northern Europe no more discussions on that, unless you deny its happening
All i see is you wanting to attack this government at every turn. So do you think its un British to praise the government for the good success they have achieved, Because its better than EU has, the EU as a body have outright lied about ordering vaccines and are still bickering about who will pay. Even if the Eu start vaccinations tomorrow, which they can't as they are 6mnth away due to not even accepting the drugs are safe, they will not be able to clear all the people until 2024, or do you deny that. Bulgaria will take up to 2040 to vaccinate all, do you expect the people to stay in lockdown until then, the policy's you want implementing will cause countries to go bankrupt, Just servicing your own political prejudice's doesn't address the situation, The time has come when all divides must put away there animosity and come together
but if you cant see that or don't want it to happen that's your choice, Remember the faster the country inoculates all British citizen the quicker we as a nation will leap forward ahead of all other countries, and you can get back to see your family also which is what I'm praying for at the moment

 

[Smug in Boots]

ok to me you do what you want,
I put forward a reason to get behind the government, regarding vaccinations, since i put up those reason I've seen no disagreements'
then lockdowns, I showed what's happening all over Northern Europe no more discussions on that, unless you deny its happening
All i see is you wanting to attack this government at every turn. So do you think its un British to praise the government for the good success they have achieved, Because its better than EU has, the EU as a body have outright lied about ordering vaccines and are still bickering about who will pay. Even if the Eu start vaccinations tomorrow, which they can't as they are 6mnth away due to not even accepting the drugs are safe, they will not be able to clear all the people until 2024, or do you deny that. Bulgaria will take up to 2040 to vaccinate all, do you expect the people to stay in lockdown until then, the policy's you want implementing will cause countries to go bankrupt, Just servicing your own political prejudice's doesn't address the situation, The time has come when all divides must put away there animosity and come together
but if you cant see that or don't want it to happen that's your choice, Remember the faster the country inoculates all British citizen the quicker we as a nation will leap forward ahead of all other countries, and you can get back to see your family also which is what I'm praying for at the moment

"Just servicing your own political prejudice's doesn't address the situation."

You see, this is why I can't take you seriously.

I've said clearly, quite a few times now, that I don't have a political prejudice.

 

[Gordon Armstrong]

Yet you've consistently made it clear that you have

Sorry, Smug, but that's the way that it seems

 

[rooch 3]

Yet you've consistently made it clear that you have

Sorry, Smug, but that's the way that it seems

Another one wasting his breath.

 

[Smug in Boots]

Yet you've consistently made it clear that you have

Sorry, Smug, but that's the way that it seems

That's because you have a weird crush on Boris and take any criticism as proof that I'm a loony left Corbynite trying to bring down the government.

The truth is that I want whichever government is in power to be doing a good job.

Excuse me but I don't think that one of the worst death tolls in Europe to be a good job.

Tell me, what do you believe is the worst thing your hero Boris has done?