I think giving him 5 mins against Shrewsbury didn't do us any favours. It's good that he's ambitious but may be we should loan him out?
Transfer Rumours January 2021 Transfer Rumours
- Thread starter ChilcoSaint
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I'd loan him but not to weaker team. Groningen would struggle against most premier league academy teams imo. Bouncing around league 1 and championship made the likes of schneiderlin and Lallana, I'd do that.
He should be grounded for a week. No pocket money. No Xbox. And he still needs to phone grandma and thank her for the Christmas card.
We're seeing more of this with youth team players in recent years, and I honestly find it a bit difficult to be that critical. It's easy to say "you should want to stay and fight for your place", but...should they? I mean, selfishly that's what works best *for us*, but if you're a well-regarded young player with less than 18 months on your contract who hasn't managed to break through, and you're getting interest from clubs with a good reputation of developing and playing youngsters, that's probably the place where you want to be. Better that than the Jack Cork scenario where you spend years shuffling from loan to loan.
Oh I absolutely agree. Young players in the U.K. have shown that they have the ability to play in Germany, France etc. and be successful. The alternative is they can stay here, waste their prime reputation building years playing the last 5 minutes of games against Swindon Town in a Frankenstein team, then bugger off to the championship or lower at 22. There’s not a contest there. We’ve seen journalists for years ask why young U.K.-based players don’t go abroad. Now they are and clubs will increasingly find them hard to hold onto. In AJ’s case, even if Rom and Diallo were both out, would he get a call? I doubt it. I reckon we’d sooner see Armstrong or Stephens turn out at CM.
The pressure level in the Premier League has made it extremely difficult to give players those opportunities and the culture of no patience with them means if they don’t come in as a Bale/Rooney-esque prodigy then they get dismantled by the press and the fans. We’ve seen it to an extent with some of our own players. Christ, there was someone on here the other day saying that the academy is bunk because Enzo Robise didn’t make it with us. It’s madness. Covid hasn’t helped either as lots of age group football has been restricted moreso than first teams.
The difficult thing is what to do? Folks aren’t going to become more patient and accepting of mistakes, the pressure on managers isn’t going to get better. Honestly the only obvious answer to me is B teams in the Football League but that’s a horrific prospect for many other reasons. I guess that you could rule on the number of home grown players in match day squads but I don’t see that happening as the TV and PL do better with more global stars in the games. It’s not to their benefit to see strong youth development.
Not trying to be political here, but won’t Brexit severely hamper the plans of any young player wanting to go and play in Germany, France, Italy or Spain? Just asking as it seems that way to me. The extra paperwork etc may well put many off ......
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Pork?
Good grief ..... serve me right for not proofreading it before posting ...... bloody autocorrect
of course, young players going to Germany, particularly, are going to have to get used to the pork dishes there (I’m particularly fond of a good pork bratwurst ..... and no dirty comments please .....
) thanks for the update, Richie. Have corrected it!
In short, not really. Another benefit to Brexit is in football we’ve handed Continental clubs an advantage over transfers they want to make.
EU clubs are going to make the effort for the right player and the work permit rules in that direction are lighter than they are for moving from EU to U.K. We didn’t want imported labour, so we’ve shown them! It’s not likely to affect players moving abroad much, if at all and it’s not as if they’re the ones doing the paperwork! Applying for a permit is easy if you have a reputable employer to sponsor you and your labour is of special value to them.
A perfect recent case is the lad from Reading who is going to Bayern for free in the summer. He’s a second tier player with no senior caps at a **** team with no big fees or contracts involved. They wanted him and they’ve got him.
Thanks. Just wondered and, yes, I know if a team really wants someone they’ll find a way but was thinking about a young player wanting more experience and if a, say, German club as interested, then they had the opportunity to get a, say, French, player, wouldn’t they be likely to go for him. Very hypothetical, but an interesting thought. Hope it doesn’t cause an issue as I’m all in favour of youngsters getting as much experience as they can!
Again, I’m not 100% on the rules in that direction, but from what we can see at the moment there’s not enough of an obstacle to act as a deterrent to EU clubs recruiting from the U.K. (even young, inexperienced players).
In the scenario you mentioned, they’d take the best value for money. I don’t think their permit rules are restrictive enough to make a difference in that equation. If Omar Richards had a German passport and was playing in the German second tier, there’s no way on Earth he’d get a permit here unless he was moving for giant, cartoon-style sacks of money with “Swag” printed on the side (even then, he wouldn’t get it at first request and could well be refused). For him to move to Germany, they just need to get a lawyer to fill out some forms and pay a small fee. It’s not even close.
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I dont understand why he thinks he can just waltz into the first team? Knuckle down mate, work hard, your chance will come
He’s not demanding to play in the first team here. He and his agent know that won’t happen, like I said above: too much competition and the stakes are too high to bring him into heavy rotation. He’s asking to move because he will be able to play first team football faster at Groningen.
That's the point, though. He wants to go to a place where he will play. "Knuckle down and wait for your chance in a couple years" is also pretty reductive when Groningen can sign him on a Bosman in less than a year.
He joined Saints Academy from Switzerland because we offer a pathway to the first team. That pathway hasn't been there, so he's looking elsewhere for that opportunity. And as an in-demand talent with a contract that doesn't have much time left on it, he has the necessary leverage to force the issue.
He joined Saints Academy from Switzerland because we offer a pathway to the first team. That pathway hasn't been there, so he's looking elsewhere for that opportunity. And as an in-demand talent with a contract that doesn't have much time left on it, he has the necessary leverage to force the issue.
Yeah don’t blame him at all, wants to play more so why not move somewhere where he will. He’ll then (hopefully for him anyway) improve to a point where a team from a top league signs him to be heavily involved in the first team
Also might be a factor that we spent a huge amount (for us anyway) on a player who plays his position and is only 2 years older, gave Romeu a new deal and have club captain JWP there as well.
He is already 19 isn't he? If he is any good he should be playing 1st team football by now - the better youngsters in Europe are playing 1st team football by 19. So either he over rates himself or we are making a mistake. Only time will tell on that one.
As an aside, we also use our subs for less time than just about anyone in the league. Average time on the pitch in sub appearances for players who have appeared off the bench more than once:
Tella - 31' (longer as he came on twice owing to injuries)
Redmond - 23'
Djenepo - 13'
Long - 11'
Lulu - 9'
Valery - 5.5'
Diallo - 2.5' (he has six sub appearances...the second-longest was 4 minutes)
I wonder if that plays a role: the kids are getting on the bench pretty often, but Ralph generally rolls with the starters until close to the 70th minute, barring injury, and doesn't burn the second until the 80th (and sometimes doesn't use the third until close to stoppage time). So if you can't push for a starting position, there isn't really much of a chance to show what you're made of...it's hard to parlay those three-minute appearances into a real claim to start.
Tella - 31' (longer as he came on twice owing to injuries)
Redmond - 23'
Djenepo - 13'
Long - 11'
Lulu - 9'
Valery - 5.5'
Diallo - 2.5' (he has six sub appearances...the second-longest was 4 minutes)
I wonder if that plays a role: the kids are getting on the bench pretty often, but Ralph generally rolls with the starters until close to the 70th minute, barring injury, and doesn't burn the second until the 80th (and sometimes doesn't use the third until close to stoppage time). So if you can't push for a starting position, there isn't really much of a chance to show what you're made of...it's hard to parlay those three-minute appearances into a real claim to start.
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He needs the puncheon treatment. Hartlepool is lovely this time of year...
