Match Day Thread Tottenham Hotspur v Fulham

[Dier Hard]

I would undermine your comment by pointing out that yes Dier has improved under Jose but so Has Toby who has been excellent in many of our recent games Aurier has also improved considerably. On top of that our defence has been much better organised and all players have increased their defensive awareness, Kane has made a few penalty box clearances as well. I don't buy into our defence being as poor as some describe, far from it, they just have too much to do. No defence will withstand without some problems for the best part of 80 minutes of a 90 minute game or even 60 or 70 minutes which is why I would like to see us using our considerable attacking skills much more than we are.
Joes is successful because he is very strong minded but sometimes you have to doubt yourself a little to move into somewhere new.

I agree with you that Aurier has improved considerably though he does always have a brainfart in his locker which always leaves me worried when he plays, though unfortunately Doherty has been even worse when he's played so right now you wouldn't drop Aurier.

The CBs though, I just don't feel safe with any of the three senior ones at the moment. I feel between them, they lack concentration and real defensive steel. For me, if we compare any combination of the three to that of the prime Jan and Toby partnership under Poch, or the King and Woodgate one under Harry (which we only got for one whole season due to injuries ) the gap in quality is huuuuge. Now for what it's worth I don't expect our CB partnerships to always be as good as the other two but the quality we have now is just too poor for me.

Another way I'd judge if the quality is good enough is would any of our three CBs start for any of our current top four/ top six rivals at the moment?

None would get in at City or Pool, don't think they'd get in at Utd, wouldn't get in at Leicester nor Everton either in my opinion. If we add Chelsea or Arsenal to the mix as they're usual top six teams, we'd probably get one or two in at Arsenal alongside Gabriel. Chelsea's CBs are probably on a par I'd say, can make a case for both sets of CBs.

If we could ideally bring in our own "van Dijk" like Pool did, that may work wonders and improve whoever plays alongside them tenfold (Toby's arrival really pushed Jan on to another level I felt) but as of right now, I don't hold any faith in Dier/ Toby/ Sanchez.

 

[PowerSpurs]

You do realise Power you have just dropped your popularity rating a lot more than 52% by admitting to having been a trader. You could improve you social standing by becoming an estate agent or a bailiff.

I've never actually traded... I am a risk manager. Trading is rather misunderstood but it should be taxed a lot more than it is.

 

[PowerSpurs]

Agreed, CK and I would make a good managerial team.

Though I think you’d find there aren’t many here who’d willingly keep if given the choice to replace:

Dier, Sanchez. Aurier, Rose, Winks, Lamela and Lucas.

Doherty, Sissoko, Bergwijn, Hart, Vinicius, Gazzaniga and Alderweireld could also be improved upon and I think you've called for Lo Celso and Dele to be sold too.
I could easily name 16 players who cost more than £500m in total who would be no better starting with about five each of the Chelsea and Arsenal squads.

 

[PowerSpurs]

Doherty, Sissoko, Bergwijn, Hart, Vinicius, Gazzaniga and Alderweireld could also be improved upon and I think you've called for Lo Celso and Dele to be sold too.
I could easily name 16 players who cost more than £500m in total who would be no better starting with about five each of the Chelsea and Arsenal squads.

That would actually leave us with a starting XI of
Lloris
Tanganga, Rodon, Davies, Reguilon
Hojbjerg, White
Bale, Ndombele, Son
Kane

Which isn't too bad at all.

 

[Dier Hard]

Doherty, Sissoko, Bergwijn, Hart, Vinicius, Gazzaniga and Alderweireld could also be improved upon and I think you've called for Lo Celso and Dele to be sold too.
I could easily name 16 players who cost more than £500m in total who would be no better starting with about five each of the Chelsea and Arsenal squads.

You could also name 16 players who cost less than £500m who would be better.

It's pretty easy to look at player values/ costs and then pick out the flops and/ or successes.

 

[humanbeingincroydon]

The thing is, the starting xi would be immeasurably improved with just two changes

1.) A RB we can trust. Aurier simply cannot be trusted, as evidenced by us playing Sissoko as a RW against Fulham in the hope that offers some protection to our right flank, as well as numerous games in the last three months where we regularly see one or even two players drift out to our right flank to try and cover the gap where in the past at most we had either Aaron Lennon or Erik Lamela covering the space if Kyle Walker was getting forward because we could rely on Walker (apart from him staying once some Middle Eastern oil money was waved in his direction) to make up for his errors with his pace, while Aurier doesn't make up for his errors he merely makes another one by fouling somebody.

2.) A reliable CM who can defend. This is what both exacerbates the issue with Aurier while also making our transition from defence to attack easy for opponents to predict. As things stand Sissoko is a fixture in our team as he's the CM we have who is best suited to babysitting Aurier, as he has the pace and physicality to close down the gap left behind him, which has the knock-on effect of sometimes leaving our other CM exposed, most obviously when Winks starts but seeing how knackered Hojbjerg has looked in recent games it's starting to affect him. However, the biggest issue is for the transition from defence to attack, as our CBs out balls are Hojbjerg or their respective FB, meaning that Sissoko is sitting in midfield not receiving passes - or to put it another way, our midfield is easier to press as opponents know they don't have to press Sissoko as he won't be receiving the ball. And yet even if the ball does get moved up the pitch to him, while he can drive through opposition lines he can't pass so while Ndombele can drive 30+ yards up the pitch and play a defence-splitting pass, while Hojbjerg can lay it off to someone to do damage in much the same way Dembele could, Sissoko can't do either so any quick break stutters. The thing is there's two solutions to this issue: either we sign a DM who can form a mid block with Hojbjerg to relieve the pressure on our back line and allow us to control games from midfield like we could do when Dembele had Sandro or Wanyama next to him, or we sign a more effective box-to-box midfielder and use Hojbjerg in more of a Scott Parker role as somebody who can break up play yet also move the ball quickly

These two signings would (in theory...) have the following much-needed advantages
- Enable us to control games in midfield
- Enable us to move the ball a lot quicker
- Remove the bullseye that is our RB
- Add some much-needed press resistance to our midfield

And just in case The Pathetic is thinking of nicking this, no, do not suggest your usual combination of players from G Fuel Vienna and midtable Ligue 1 sides, we don't need a player who can fix these issues sometime in the 2022-3 season...

 

[Dier Hard]

The thing is, the starting xi would be immeasurably improved with just two changes

1.) A RB we can trust. Aurier simply cannot be trusted, as evidenced by us playing Sissoko as a RW against Fulham in the hope that offers some protection to our right flank, as well as numerous games in the last three months where we regularly see one or even two players drift out to our right flank to try and cover the gap where in the past at most we had either Aaron Lennon or Erik Lamela covering the space if Kyle Walker was getting forward because we could rely on Walker (apart from him staying once some Middle Eastern oil money was waved in his direction) to make up for his errors with his pace, while Aurier doesn't make up for his errors he merely makes another one by fouling somebody.

2.) A reliable CM who can defend. This is what both exacerbates the issue with Aurier while also making our transition from defence to attack easy for opponents to predict. As things stand Sissoko is a fixture in our team as he's the CM we have who is best suited to babysitting Aurier, as he has the pace and physicality to close down the gap left behind him, which has the knock-on effect of sometimes leaving our other CM exposed, most obviously when Winks starts but seeing how knackered Hojbjerg has looked in recent games it's starting to affect him. However, the biggest issue is for the transition from defence to attack, as our CBs out balls are Hojbjerg or their respective FB, meaning that Sissoko is sitting in midfield not receiving passes - or to put it another way, our midfield is easier to press as opponents know they don't have to press Sissoko as he won't be receiving the ball. And yet even if the ball does get moved up the pitch to him, while he can drive through opposition lines he can't pass so while Ndombele can drive 30+ yards up the pitch and play a defence-splitting pass, while Hojbjerg can lay it off to someone to do damage in much the same way Dembele could, Sissoko can't do either so any quick break stutters. The thing is there's two solutions to this issue: either we sign a DM who can form a mid block with Hojbjerg to relieve the pressure on our back line and allow us to control games from midfield like we could do when Dembele had Sandro or Wanyama next to him, or we sign a more effective box-to-box midfielder and use Hojbjerg in more of a Scott Parker role as somebody who can break up play yet also move the ball quickly

These two signings would (in theory...) have the following much-needed advantages
- Enable us to control games in midfield
- Enable us to move the ball a lot quicker
- Remove the bullseye that is our RB
- Add some much-needed press resistance to our midfield

And just in case The Pathetic is thinking of nicking this, no, do not suggest your usual combination of players from G Fuel Vienna and midtable Ligue 1 sides, we don't need a player who can fix these issues sometime in the 2022-3 season...

I think a commanding CB is just as important.

Someone who can come in and marshal our back line and be that dominant figure, as well as help nurture the likes of Rodon, Tanganga and co.

Basically we need our very own equivalent to a van Dijk signing. Toby actually done that when he first joined because he came in and massively raised the game of not only Jan but the whole back line. We need that fresh impact at the back again. Sanchez is never kicking onto the player we want him to be, Toby's past it and Dier switches between good and calamity.

 

[PowerSpurs]

You could also name 16 players who cost less than £500m who would be better.

It's pretty easy to look at player values/ costs and then pick out the flops and/ or successes.

Yes, but moving players out is useless unless there is a resonable chance of improving them. I suspect the player we most agreed was rubbish before this season was Aurier but Doherty, who Wolves fans thought was great, doesn't look better at all. Selling about six players for £100m and signing two worth £80m each would give a real chance of improving us. I, like, @humanbeingincroydon, would want a right back and a midfield controller. Whoever the current equivalents of Lahm and Kante are.

 

[Dier Hard]

Yes, but moving players out is useless unless there is a resonable chance of improving them. I suspect the player we most agreed was rubbish before this season was Aurier but Doherty, who Wolves fans thought was great, doesn't look better at all. Selling about six players for £100m and signing two worth £80m each would give a real chance of improving us. I, like, @humanbeingincroydon, would want a right back and a midfield controller. Whoever the current equivalents of Lahm and Kante are.

That's the risk of the transfer market. You need to take those risks of trying to improve otherwise you'll forever stay where you are or even regress. It's why we got incredibly stale under Pochettino and are still paying the price for it now.

Doherty's signing has proven to be poor, though it has raised the level of Aurier even if Aurier himself still isn't good enough for a club with our aspirations, which is why I think we'll revisit the position in the summer.

Hojbjerg and Reguilon on the other hand have proven to be upgrades in their respective positions. We need to keep trying to get more signings like them and hope that we keep our best players, therefore that in theory gives us the best chance of pushing up the league and challenging for multiple honours.

 

[PowerSpurs]

That's the risk of the transfer market. You need to take those risks of trying to improve otherwise you'll forever stay where you are or even regress. It's why we got incredibly stale under Pochettino and are still paying the price for it now.

Doherty's signing has proven to be poor, though it has raised the level of Aurier even if Aurier himself still isn't good enough for a club with our aspirations, which is why I think we'll revisit the position in the summer.

Hojbjerg and Reguilon on the other hand have proven to be upgrades in their respective positions. We need to keep trying to get more signings like them and hope that we keep our best players, therefore that in theory gives us the best chance of pushing up the league and challenging for multiple honours.

I still don't get Hojbjerg.....we've definitely got fewer points with him than when Sissoko and Winks played at the end of last season.

And I think the continual playing in the transfer market makes managers lazy. When I first started watching Spurs we used to sign between 0 and 2 players each season but we spent big. Squads back then were only 16 or 17 but that translates to 0-3 players now. I'd much rather we signed 2 top players than 6 average ones.

 

[PleaseNotPoll]

Whoever the current equivalents of Lahm and Kante are.

Kante's still playing. Not that I'd turn him down, of course, but I think that Hojbjerg does that role for us.
We need a Modric, Carrick, Dembele or the like, in my opinion. All very different players, but playing more creative roles from deeper in the midfield.
A backup or competition for Hojbjerg would be great, but Skipp should be able to be that next season, so it's a tricky thing to approach.

I think our squad balance sucks and we need to get rid of a number of players and sort out our homegrown quota.
Selling Gazzaniga, switching Hart to third choice and bringing in a homegrown backup keeper shouldn't be immensely difficult.
It gets a lot more complicated after that and would depend on who we can bring in, for me.

We need to do some savvy business with regards to future planning and squad management.
Looking at Championship players with 18 months left on their contracts like Todd Cantwell and Lewis Cook might be an idea.
Reintegrating Sessegnon needs to be something we heavily consider, too. Davies may have to move on or become a centre-back.

 

[humanbeingincroydon]

I think a commanding CB is just as important.

Someone who can come in and marshal our back line and be that dominant figure, as well as help nurture the likes of Rodon, Tanganga and co.

Basically we need our very own equivalent to a van Dijk signing. Toby actually done that when he first joined because he came in and massively raised the game of not only Jan but the whole back line. We need that fresh impact at the back again. Sanchez is never kicking onto the player we want him to be, Toby's past it and Dier switches between good and calamity.

Honestly, it depends on what our system needs

For example, if we're going to continue with a RB in the free role, we need a CB with that extra half yard of pace to cover the gaps - especially if we move our back line further up the pitch. Now the thing is we already have two options for this: Sanchez and Tanganga, both of whom have the pace to perform in this role. However, here's the issue: Sanchez has a mistake in him, which can be hidden in a team playing on the front foot but not in one looking to play on the counter, while Tanganga is a raw talent so shouldn't be dropped into this role immediately - although he does need more minutes this season, and if we can't offer those we should get on the blower to someone like Norwich and see if they want to give him regular minutes

If we look outside, that's where things get either interesting or infuriating: the obvious name to mention for a pacey CB is Upemecano, especially with his contract ticking down...but the odds of that happening are practically nil given the teams circling at this point, with Bayern throwing their hat into the ring. Or there's Kim Min-jae emoticon-0168-drink) who is surprisingly quick for somebody who appears to have escaped from Shadow of the Colossus, or there's Samuel Umtiti who surely has to accept Barca have forgotten who he is...although the bills they pay their medical team probably mean he simply doesn't have the pace he did 3-4 seasons ago

In terms of a commanding CB, while Dier certainly needs an upgrade (certainly more than Toby, and arguably on a similar level as Sanchez) there's various options, for example Milan Skriniar emoticon-0168-drink) or Nikola Milenkovic emoticon-0168-drink), and it has to be said Milenkovic is possible in this window given Fiorentina are ****e this season and Milenkovic has a.) Eighteen months left on his contract and, b.) Stated he wants out, and it has to be said that while Milenkovic doesn't get the headlines in the way that a Koulibaly does, he's assured in the tackle, good in the air and has a very big physical presence, which is basically what Dier should but simply hasn't been this season

 

[Dier Hard]

I still don't get Hojbjerg.....we've definitely got fewer points with him than when Sissoko and Winks played at the end of last season.

And I think the continual playing in the transfer market makes managers lazy. When I first started watching Spurs we used to sign between 0 and 2 players each season but we spent big. Squads back then were only 16 or 17 but that translates to 0-3 players now. I'd much rather we signed 2 top players than 6 average ones.

Hojbjerg is league's above Winks and Sissoko, he'll be up there as one of the signings of the season. Ironically I wasn't even keen on signing him but he's proven me massively wrong. I dread to think where we'd be without him this season.

Football's changed a lot from then though. Transfers are a necessity for teams to improve. It's very rare to see a team genuinely coached with minimal additions to go on and achieve success. I do actually agree that trying to get 2 top players per season is the way to go but because we signed no one for 18 months back in 2018 we're playing catch up. We also essentially signed 2 top players last season when considering the money we spent and neither have truly proven their worth. Same applies so far to getting Bale back, there's various factors for him of course but sometimes the best/ biggest signings - especially with this football club - are the one's people have little expectations for or know little about.