Off Topic Coronavirus
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The trial evidence reported here seem to suggest the Moderna vaccine is more effective than the pfizer one
About the same as the human immune system then. That's about the % (90%) of asymptomatic infections of total. So how do you tell who would not have got the disease naturally or if the vaccine worked? You can't
Estimated over 1 billion cases currently, 1 billion.
Study in nature science, data from 10 million cases found no evidence of asymptomatic spread.
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-020-19802-w
WHO also say this. Therefor the claim that the vaccine is 95% effective is not reliable because you can't separate the people who naturally would not be symptomatic.
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Besides, 4 years vaccine development is lightning fast, 4 fkn months.. puhlease
The figures appear to show the Moderna is more effective .
One vaccine recipient became severely ill in the Pfizer study compared with nine in the placebo group (SN: 11/18/20). No one who got the Moderna vaccine became severely ill, while 30 people who got the placebo developed severe disease (SN: 11/30/20).
Even if it doesn't prevent you getting covid, if it prevents you getting a more serious case of covid it would still be a benefit.
It's like the flu vaccine. Flu vaccine is frequently only 50% effective. Sounds pretty bad, only prevents 50% of would be infections... Until you factor in that, yes, you may still get flu, but most likely a heck of a lot less severe if you had the vaccine first.
It's like the flu vaccine. Flu vaccine is frequently only 50% effective. Sounds pretty bad, only prevents 50% of would be infections... Until you factor in that, yes, you may still get flu, but most likely a heck of a lot less severe if you had the vaccine first.
Those figures don't. I would guess that the difference between 1 and 0 severely ill people is statistically insignificant, i.e. that the probability is the same for both. If anything they suggest the Pfizer placebo was more effective than the Moderna one
To give more numbers from the studies quoted, the Pfizer study had 43,000 enrolled and after 7 days recorded 170 cases of Covid19: 162 in the control group and 8 in the vaccine group.
The Moderna study had over 30,000 participants and 196 Covid19 cases, of which 11 were in the vaccine group and 185 in the control group.
Both companies are claiming 94-95% efficacy.
By comparing the vaccine group with the control group? An asymptotic infection is still an infection. How infectious asymptotic spread is is a different matter, but the results of the studies show a significant decrease in the incidence of both general Covid19 and severe illness between the vaccine and control group.
the figures i quoted do appear to show the Moderna was more effective asThose figures don't. I would guess that the difference between 1 and 0 severely ill people is statistically insignificant, i.e. that the probability is the same for both. If anything they suggest the Pfizer placebo was more effective than the Moderna one
To give more numbers from the studies quoted, the Pfizer study had 43,000 enrolled and after 7 days recorded 170 cases of Covid19: 162 in the control group and 8 in the vaccine group.
The Moderna study had over 30,000 participants and 196 Covid19 cases, of which 11 were in the vaccine group and 185 in the control group.
Both companies are claiming 94-95% efficacy.
Moderna 0 serious Placebo 30
Pfizer 1 serious Placebo 9
however i used show deliberately as there was only a very small amount of detail in the report .
On the buying Vaccine/jumping the queue question, looks like someone has already tried and have been lambasted for it.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-55593210
A property investment company has offered GP surgeries £5,000 for unused coronavirus vaccine doses.
The Hacking Trust's medical division approached surgeries in Bristol and Worthing offering to pay the money to charity "or the staff member directly".
Robyn Clark, from the Institute of General Practice Management, said it was "just appalling".
The company, based in London, has apologised, saying its "good intentions" were "misinterpreted".
NHS England said people "will rightly take a dim view of anyone who tries to jump the queue".
"The NHS is free at the point of access for everyone who needs it," said Ms Clark.
"What we felt this company was trying to do was jump the queue."
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-55593210
A property investment company has offered GP surgeries £5,000 for unused coronavirus vaccine doses.
The Hacking Trust's medical division approached surgeries in Bristol and Worthing offering to pay the money to charity "or the staff member directly".
Robyn Clark, from the Institute of General Practice Management, said it was "just appalling".
The company, based in London, has apologised, saying its "good intentions" were "misinterpreted".
NHS England said people "will rightly take a dim view of anyone who tries to jump the queue".
"The NHS is free at the point of access for everyone who needs it," said Ms Clark.
"What we felt this company was trying to do was jump the queue."
- May 22, 2011
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You’re ignoring the fact that those that it can kill are generally those with a weaker immune system so saying human immune system is 90% means nothing.
vaccine isn’t really aimed at people that can fight it off, it’s aimed at those that can’t.
and 4months to 4 years... it’s not that simple. Most of the time you have to prove a vaccine is needed, get approval, get funding, develop a new vaccine, get test subjects....
most of that was already done for covid, so was just the working on vaccine part which was already in progress
Alot of the vaccine work had already been done before Covid19 arrived.
They've been working on Coronavirus vaccines since MERS and SARS which are both Coronaviruses and share alot of similarities to Covid19.
Alot of the base work was there ready, it just needed tailoring to the current form
Coronavirus outbreaks and epidemics/pandemic (minor compared to COVID 19) including SARS and MERS coV are not new. So attempts to make a coronavirus vaccine would have been started many years ago.
There is a lot of misunderstanding about the effectiveness of the vaccine and asymptomatic infections. The full details of the various vaccine studies have not been made public but the authors have stated that the number of vaccinated individuals coming down with an illness was much much less than unvaccinated individuals (0 or 1 v 100+) and no hospital admissions v many in the various study groups. The inference from this is that the vaccine is highly effective in protecting any individual from having very severe disease as well as significantly reducing the incidence of all symptomatic disease. The above doesn’t tell us anything about the degree of protection from INFECTION from the vaccines. To do that the number of infected cases must be worked out and that would have needed participants to undergo regular swab testing to check whether they have been infected. With those, the effectiveness of the vaccines (up to 95% in some cases) can then be determined. such early studies CANNOT determine whether these vaccines can prevent further transmission. But that is not the most important issue because if 95% of vaccinated are protected from infection then these people shouldn’t pose a risk to others whilst they are protected. Even if that period of protection could be months rather than years. The risk of transmission may arise from individuals whose vaccination immunity starts waning and from those 5% whose vaccination didn’t work in the first place.
no the vaccine is for ALL.
Anyone can have an immuno response to the virus. anyone can end up in hospital and at this point in time anyone can have a serious outcome as there is virtually no capacity to get to a hospital.
Anyone can have a lowered immune system at somepoint. I would be very hesitant to use terms like generally and such.
All the vaccine will do is give your B cells the antigen to "remember" and start proliferating and differentiating into plasma cell to pump out antibodies. that destroy the virus.
If you've not got the strong immune response for a different reason the vaccine won't help you.
First one...
https://www.theguardian.com/society...b-policy?utm_source=upday&utm_medium=referral
... covid passport looming!
https://www.theguardian.com/society...b-policy?utm_source=upday&utm_medium=referral
... covid passport looming!
So they should.
Its incredibly selfish thing to do around old folks.
the rule should however also be no vaccine no care home visit at this point as well. Its all about getting this thing suppressed.
IMO the usual will go on hols (the minute boris johnson opened his pig mouth Thomas cook has a rush of bookings) going on hoildays this year will inevitably lead to isses and as per it'll be back to school thats blamed not those all off in airplanes on hols with others form across europe.
- May 22, 2011
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