Number one; that's what I'm talking about.

[Masanari]

Interesting article on James Allen about quotes Mark Webber has made.

There are some interesting comments in it which are worth highlighting; first Webber says quite candidly that last season, where he lost the title at the final round, was his last chance to be world champion, a rare admission for an active racing driver, especially one who is sitting in the fastest car on the grid. He goes on to explain that a team has to line up behind one of its drivers fairly early on in a season and accepts that Red Bull needed to back Sebastian Vettel this year. Although he says he will perform better next year, the implication is that he expects more of the same in 2012, with Vettel having the edge.

To win the championship you need 100% from the team. I think it’s difficult for the team to give 100% to both drivers as we are both demanding. Looking at the start we actually got (in 2011), it’s clear where the support needs to go and I respect that in some way. The team has given me a great opportunity to do well. I ask for a reliable and strong car every weekend and I will give my best. The team knows I always give my best

This is pretty much an admission that Sebastian Vettel is the number one driver at Red Bull and Webber is just there now to back him up and score good points for the constructors championship.

With Vettel being numero uno at Red Bull and Fernando Alonso being the driving force at Ferrari, do Jenson Button and Lewis Hamilton have a chance at winning the WDC with them being equal at Mclaren?

Button seems to think they are hindered.

The best way for a team to win the World Championship would be probably be to have a No 1 driver and a No 2 driver who is happy to be a No 2. We do not have this at McLaren.

 

[Big Ern]

I think it obviously make sit harder if you have your team mate allowed to hinder your progress through the field, Button isn't the only driver at McLaren being hindered by their equal status. Unless you have by far the fastest car, like Prost and Senna did, then you can. I also think RBR give both drivers an equal chance, th team orders given at silverstone would be given by pretty much any team running 2 & 3 at the end of a GP. People tend pounce on any tit bit as proof, without looking at it objectively, or with an eye to the history surrounding it.

 

[cosicave]

I'm surprised that Webber's comments have come as a surprise!
Surely everyone knows the score at Red Bull?

As for Button: of course he is right. This is even more reason to admire and applaud McLaren's mentality in my view. When a team has a clear pecking order - as exists at Ferrari and Red Bull (in spite of the crap we hear from little Jack Horner) - it is far easier to maximise team points.

It takes a lot of courage for any team to say, "You are clear to race and may the best man win!" This is a very laudable ideal to uphold because it is the very essence of sport. Well done McLaren and well done to the McLaren drivers for both having the courage to fight it out. No other top team allows this. Even Mercedes have tried (albeit in a smallish way and with less success) to accommodate Schumacher over Rosberg in many subtle ways.

 

[SgtBhaji]

I'm surprised that Webber's comments have come as a surprise!

No kidding.

 

[RoadRunner]

Thank you very ****ing much Red Bullshit Racing. You have turned someone who doesn't deserve to be a No.2 driver, someone who should have won the championship at least once in his career, into someone who says this. All because you're a bunch of lying bastards. Nice work on losing the support of an entire continent

 

[chrispa76]

Thank you very ****ing much Red Bullshit Racing. You have turned someone who doesn't deserve to be a No.2 driver, someone who should have won the championship at least once in his career, into someone who says this. All because you're a bunch of lying bastards. Nice work on losing the support of an entire continent

They lost my support last season for treating their drivers unequally. This is why he has been under performing this season, because being a clear number two driver in the team. It has made him uncomfortable. It is a shame, he is a very fast driver and a great character and I always cheered for him.

 

[tomcat606]

Thank you very ****ing much Red Bullshit Racing. You have turned someone who doesn't deserve to be a No.2 driver, someone who should have won the championship at least once in his career, into someone who says this. All because you're a bunch of lying bastards. Nice work on losing the support of an entire continent

Its not Red Bulls fault that Webber messed up 2010. His big mistakes in Valencia and South Korea are all alone his fault. He (and you) should say "Thank you Red Bull for letting me drive such a good car!" instead of bitching.

 

[BrightLampShade]

I thinks its ok to have a number 1 driver, just a bit underhand if you try to pretend otherwise.

 

[chrispa76]

Its not Red Bulls fault that Webber messed up 2010. His big mistakes in Valencia and South Korea are all alone his fault. He (and you) should say "Thank you Red Bull for letting me drive such a good car!" instead of bitching.

So based on those two accidents he deserves to be number two? What about turkey and spa where Vettel caused a crash? And what about the wing incident last year where Webber had to give his wing to Vettel after Vettel had destroyed his? They already had their mind made up prior last year that Vettel were to be their number one. I am not against having a number one and a number two driver, if one of them have a considerable lead over the other and it is mathematically almost impossible for the other one to catch up. Like this year with Ferrari, of course Massa have to help Alonso, but next year they should in my opinion start as equals again. I'm sure they wont, just saying I think it is the most fair way (unless Massa has agreed upon it during contract negotiations).

Half way mark through this season Vettel had a massive lead already and I think he should have the number one driver position for the rest of the year. But I felt it started much early last year and it is since then on that Webber had started to under perform.

 

[Masanari]

The things that really annoyed me about Red Bull is them pretending that Vettel and Webber are equals, I can't stand Horner and his smug media whoring BS. Also last year when Webber was easily ahead of Vettel in the championship and it looked like a fight between him and Alonso for the title Red Bull refused to back Webber pretending that they would never back a driver and both would be treated equaly while endagering the title to Alonso; while this year they backed Vettel after just a few races. I am sure that last year if Vettel was in Webber's position then Red Bull would of backed him.

 

[Big Ern]

Waht really annoys me most about these articles is everyone brings up 'wing-gate' as proof of favouritism, hence my 'no one bothers looking at the history'. Fact is both wings got damaged, they managed to fix Webbers, but because Webber didn't really care for it and Sebastian thought it was the bees knees they decided to put the repaired one, which had been Webbers onto Vettels, giving Webber the perfect opportunity to do what he does best, moan. Webber didn't want the wing for himself, he wanted it simply because he didn't want Seb to have it, a childish "they're my toys" mentality, working against his team, again. Nothing to do with favouritism, they did what they thought was best for the team by putting equipment onto the car driver who benefitted from it.
It's this incident that finally put me off Webber completely, and I totally agreed with Sebs post race 'he's a man with 2 faces' comment. But it did what it was supposed to do, it got into Vettels head, Vettel was pretty poor for a while, then karma came a-knocking and it all back-fired.

And Chrispa, how havn't they backed him? he still has the fastest car, it's not Redbulls fault Webber can't start a race properly. only in silverstone, where they were running 2 and 3 with a couple of laps to go with nothing to gain and 33 points to lose did RB give a 'hold station' order, (which was ignored, surprise surprise).

 

[chrispa76]

@Miggins
By all the interviews I have watched Horner, Vettel and Webber given, it is hard for me to interpret it in another way than that Vettel is the favored driver and has been so since the beginning. I could be wrong, and they might actually support both drivers equally, but that is my interpretation.

Where did Webber say he didn't want the new wing? I must totally have missed that. If that is the case then I will withdraw my statement that Webber was unjustly treated, but please point me to where I can see for myself what you are saying about it.

And yes indeed he still have the fastest car, but it is a lot of very small subtle things that I keep seeing and hearing which makes me believe Webber is not on equal terms with Vettel within the team. Every time I hear Horner speak about the race, it is the way he describe it all and how he defend/support them both individually. It is as he is happier when Vettel is winning than when Webber is. I could very well be wrong, and I hope I am.

Nothing against Vettel, he is a great driver. The reason why I cheer more for Webber is because I like his personality better and he was already one of my favorite drivers when Vettel joined the sport.

 

[tomcat606]

@Miggins
Where did Webber say he didn't want the new wing? I must totally have missed that. If that is the case then I will withdraw my statement that Webber was unjustly treated, but please point me to where I can see for myself what you are saying about it.

-----
An unnamed ‘senior engineer’ has prolonged Red Bull’s Silverstone front wing saga. The team official said he was “very surprised” when Mark Webber made a commotion about teammate Sebastian Vettel receiving his new-specification front wing prior to qualifying for the recent British grand prix.

“Throughout the period when he used the new wing, he complained that it did not work any better than the old one,” the engineer is quoted by Finland’s Turun Sanomat.

“Mark simply did not get a good feeling with it, but when there was only one left, Mark absolutely wanted to have it.

“He did not care about it at all when we still had two new wings,” the engineer added.

On the other hand, German Vettel “immediately” liked the new wing when he ran it in practice, said the engineer.

“We believe that the team management’s decision was well-reasoned and logical,” he added.

Additionally, it is reported that Webber’s RB6 chassis is actually slightly lighter than Vettel’s, with the team working to equalise the Australian’s naturally taller and heavier body.
-----

Source: http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/unnamed-engineer-surprised-by-webber-s-outbursts

 

[Delete Me]

So what? Is this whole story about that seb can win the world title with equal status, but Lewis can't since Jenson is treated equally.

And that Webber can't take team orders but Seb can when the team asks for it?

Yeah! Team orders are used when it's needed, but it seems Webber thinks he doesn't have to follow them and kick up a fuss, so he deserves to be treated unequally to Seb.

No wonder Dr Marko hates his guts, Mark is full of **** and likes to stir it when he can, he plays mind games. What can you expect having a manager like Flavio pulling the strings. And they say Alonso was bad in 2007? Webber was like that last season, but of course I will be classified as a hater with no facts of foul play.

Seb dominance over eh Mark? Eggs on your face you little bitch...

 

[Masanari]

So what? Is this whole story about that seb can win the world title with equal status, but Lewis can't since Jenson is treated equally.

And that Webber can't take team orders but Seb can when the team asks for it?

Yeah! Team orders are used when it's needed, but it seems Webber thinks he doesn't have to follow them and kick up a fuss, so he deserves to be treated unequally to Seb.

No wonder Dr Marko hates his guts, Mark is full of **** and likes to stir it when he can, he plays mind games. What can you expect having a manager like Flavio pulling the strings. And they say Alonso was bad in 2007? Webber was like that last season, but of course I will be classified as a hater with no facts of foul play.

Seb dominance over eh Mark? Eggs on your face you little bitch...

Why don't you actually read the article instead of blindly just having a go at Webber.


EDIT: Also am I the only one who is totally ignorent of where all this Webber hate has come from? He has always seemed to me one of the most straight forward and likeable drivers on the grid. But hay, I did not think Turkey 2010 was his fault at all, so what do I know?

 

[chrispa76]

@tomcat606
Thanks.

Though I don't really know what to make of that article. It is a newspaper reporting that an unnamed senior engineer claims that Webber didn't like the new wing. It could very well be true but why on earth would mark react like that then? I have hard to believe he would say what he said about it when it happened. And if he DID make it all up, then why on earth do Red Bull re-sign him? No team would want a driver who badmouth them on false grounds as there are plenty more talented drivers to chose from that would gladly take his place without the slightest hesitation.

I'm not disputing or claiming anything, just puzzled.

Seb dominance over eh Mark? Eggs on your face you little bitch...

Need to get laid much? Why all the anger and hate?

Webber was like that last season, but of course I will be classified as a hater with no facts of foul play.

It is pretty difficult to classify you differently because of the language you use. Maybe not generally a hater, but it is a pretty hateful post imho.

 

[RoadRunner]

EDIT: Also am I the only one who is totally ignorent of where all this Webber hate has come from?

Nah, you're not the only one. I've always been fairly confused by it.

 

[SgtBhaji]

So what? Is this whole story about that seb can win the world title with equal status, but Lewis can't since Jenson is treated equally.

And that Webber can't take team orders but Seb can when the team asks for it?

Yeah! Team orders are used when it's needed, but it seems Webber thinks he doesn't have to follow them and kick up a fuss, so he deserves to be treated unequally to Seb.

No wonder Dr Marko hates his guts, Mark is full of **** and likes to stir it when he can, he plays mind games. What can you expect having a manager like Flavio pulling the strings. And they say Alonso was bad in 2007? Webber was like that last season, but of course I will be classified as a hater with no facts of foul play.

Seb dominance over eh Mark? Eggs on your face you little bitch...

Blimey... Get this man something to calm his nerves.

 

[chrispa76]

EDIT: Also am I the only one who is totally ignorent of where all this Webber hate has come from? He has always seemed to me one of the most straight forward and likeable drivers on the grid. But hay, I did not think Turkey 2010 was his fault at all, so what do I know?

Same here, I don't get it at all.

And who said it was Webbers fault in Turkey? I thought it was very clear that Vettel turned into Webber before he was past :/

 

[Delete Me]

Mark plays the mind games, he plays the nice guy bollox you all think he is, but he's always had it out for Seb since 2010, every time Seb did well Mark would be ready to try and steal his thunder.

Turkey 2010 isn't the issue, the whole personality he gave out that the media didn't bother to report about is the problem. Having the finger pointed at Seb as the problem for being the number 2 is why Seb fans dislike Mark because 9/10 it's always Mark making the claims that he isn't getting 100% support.

I have read your post Mifune, and it still flows with more ****e coming out of James and Mark, (mostly JA post) trying to make it out that 2010 was the only time he was given equal status, anything to stir the pot and smear Vettel any chance he gets. This fake front he puts up that Murray walker spouts out "he's a great chap" absolute bollox! As I said in the past, I would rather have Lewis in that other Red Bull since Lewis is at least honest and up front. Mark always has an agenda with every interview involving his lack of form and his rumored number 2 status to Seb, somehow he will make it all Vettel's fault and the team doesn't care about him, (insert tears here).


I never trust the likes of Mark, they are a fake front to get the media on their side when **** hits the fan.