Lol he missed the point on so many things....
I know, but that’s what we are up against.
Off Topic Politics Thread
- Thread starter ChilcoSaint
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I know, but that’s what we are up against.
My old Government and Politics teacher at Itchen College used to say that the art of politics is the ability to compromise.
I’m a Socialist and a Trade Unionist, but I recognise that the middle ground is where elections are won and lost. And England (as opposed to Scotland and Wales) is quite a “small c” conservative country in many ways.
Seems to me that, these days, it’s all about how to get into a position of power, make as much as you can for yourself and your mates and then work on how to get re-elected by sweet talking the right media and getting them on your side ......
Not happy Dave, I just don't believe that a centrist Labour party will ever deliver the kind of social change I yearn for. I know I'm not realistic, and I agree with Archers that politics is about compromise...which is why I'm an idealist not a politician.
I do believe though that although JC was pretty far left, he wouldn't have been the one solely making decisions and the more extreme of his ideas would have been mitigated by other members of a Corbyn cabinet.
I have so much respect for his principals, his idealism and his desire for social and economic fairness and will be a long time mourning the missed chance to reshape and rebalance the country more in favour of people like me and you.
I'll probably get over my distrust and distaste for an acceptable version of Labour, but they will never be socialist enough for me.
I'll do what I can to oust the gangsters in charge at the moment, but I have a feeling that the idea that socialism is dangerous will linger on and that we will just end up with a succession of Tory governments with an occasional moderate labour one every now and again.
I'm a firm believer that it was worth gambling that socialism could deliver, however that risk is too much for most people and that's why we are where we are.
I had no quarrel with the Corbyn manifesto. The trouble is the electorate did, and that was very predictable. Knock Blair as much as you like. I will always remember the early hours of May 2 1997 when a Tory worker tried to take a swing at me. The reason - we had just overturned a Tory majority of 5000 and made it a Labour one of 10000+.
There is no point being politically pure and getting thumped for your pains. Personally I hope Corbyn is kept out. It's nothing personal against him, just tha for every vote we lose from disgruntled left wingers we will win two back from the other end. Oh and one last thing, Corbyn enabled Brexit with his stupid seven out of ten comment about the EU.
There is no point being politically pure and getting thumped for your pains. Personally I hope Corbyn is kept out. It's nothing personal against him, just tha for every vote we lose from disgruntled left wingers we will win two back from the other end. Oh and one last thing, Corbyn enabled Brexit with his stupid seven out of ten comment about the EU.
My US colleagues we saying to me (whilst I take the piss out of President Chump), that Brexit will be amazing. I said why? I used one example close to my heart of wine. I said to them with no deal there is duty etc. Ah, but now you are not in the EU you can make a deal with Italy for your Italian wine, and maybe a better one with France for the French wine without Germany interfering. They didn't understand that we need to make a deal with the EU and we cannot make a deal with individual countries.
"Oh that's not going to work then"
"Exactly"
I know exactly how you feel SC, but Starmer really isn’t as bad as Blair. The most important thing, though, is that Starmer isn’t Johnson, or any kind of Tory, or Tory-lite like Blair was. Social Democracy is a long way from socialism, I agree, but it’s a damn sight better than the far-right neoliberal Toryism we suffer under now, which in my view is worse than Thatcherism was.
The other consideration is Brexit. Like yourself, I was a huge fan of Jeremy Corbyn but I’m afraid he left me feeling utterly betrayed over his lack of opposition to Brexit. Starmer, on the other hand, made no secret of what he thought of the whole shambolic nonsense. True, he currently accepts that Brexit has happened, but you can bet your life that if the catastrophe of No Deal actually happens, Starmer will become the focus of the “Told You So” movement, which will eventually become the Rejoin movement, and Labour will, hopefully, be resurgent.
I suppose, what it comes down to, as Dave says above, is what would you rather have, a glass of weak beer, or a glass of sulphuric acid? Much more of Johnson & co. will literally destroy this country, and I would so much rather have even a lukewarm semi-socialist Labour Party in power than the Tory scumbags.
I agree, the Corbyn manifesto was the thing that split the labour vote, and I'm aware that my political ideals don't work in this globalist society where right wing media was allowed to ride roughshod over truth without any backlash. I'm also anti zionist which doesn't go down well anywhere so I guess I'm just going to be one of those permanently disenfranchised voters who will probably never find a party that suits my mindset.
I was willing to give Blair a chance - I voted for the Labour Party in 97 (Well, in every election since the 80s when I was allowed to vote) but I didn't feel they were the party that would do what I felt we needed. I was asked to leave my university Labour club in 1996 because of my "extreme" left wing views and I don't consider myself extreme at all. I still voted for Blairs lot though because I felt then that there was still a chance that some of my socialist dreams might still happen. I don't see that happening with Keir in charge, and it makes me sad.
You're right though Farked, there is no point setting yourself up as a purist in politics because it'll just be pain and failure but I can't help myself.
You're right of course Chilco, but I've never been sensible. I do try though, and I vote pretty pragmatically because luke warm is better than none.
Thanks for the honesty SC. And I do understand exactly how you feel. I will be quite honest, although I voted Labour in 2019 I wasn't easy with it and, had I felt that Corbyn would get a majority I might well have voted LD. Brexit really was the overriding issue with me and while Pfeffel supported the project as a path to power I knew that had that path been Remain the charlatan would have chosen that one instead. Corbyn has been a Leaver all his life, he's a Tony Benn fellow traveller on Europe and it's about to become the biggest disaster of our lives. Another forum I am on the Leavers don't even bother to argue. The last one I saw said it would be a bit rough fir ten years!
I believe Jeremy is a decent bloke and I’m sure he’s a very good, caring MP. It’s just that he was a very easy target for the media and that made him virtually unelectable. It’s a shame that he wouldn’t (or couldn’t) come out against Brexit. We now need someone who can get this country to kick out the bastards who are in power. There’s virtually no Labour support where I am, so I went LD to try and get rid of the Tory incumbent. I’m hoping that come the next election, Labour will withdraw and LD can withdraw in a seat where Labour can possibly win if they only have the Tories to fight!
Sadly Dave that isn't going to happen. Both parties are too macho to contemplate it. We've seen this for decades.
Prue Leith's horrible offspring is our local MP, and I seriously believe I'd have to take my rifle out for a walk and take out several 000s until I got the numbers down enough for any other party to stand a chance of winning the seat.
The truth is that politics in this country is broken. Really broken. I feel exactly the same as SC, and anything other than a real socialist government is just another version of what has gone before. I also agree that the current government, and you really have to stretch a point in calling them that, are an absolute nightmare and they have to be binned off somehow. Starmer doesn't do anything to encourage me to give Labour my vote at all. I don't care that he is well versed in legal matters or that he can out-flank the idiot at PM's question time. I think the way Jeremy Corbyn has been treated is disgraceful and Starmer should have not gone down that path. Instead of uniting Labour it is likely to create further division and acrimony, and no one needed that.
My take on it is that we will all live to regret the result of the last general election, not just for years to come, but for decades. The pain this country is going to go through is going to hit those who can least afford to take it, and just being clever at the despatch box is not enough. In fact it doesn't really mean anything to the average person in the street. Just look at what Johnson is able to get away with. He doesn't give a ****, and a lot of people still think he is doing the best he can under the circumstances. The truth is there will only be real change when society is so damaged and middle England is really hurting that there is serious social unrest. This country is fast becoming a mirror of what is happening in America, and where that will end up is anyone's guess.
The only suggestion I can make as a reasonably sane person is that I might just know the answer .....
My take on it is that we will all live to regret the result of the last general election, not just for years to come, but for decades. The pain this country is going to go through is going to hit those who can least afford to take it, and just being clever at the despatch box is not enough. In fact it doesn't really mean anything to the average person in the street. Just look at what Johnson is able to get away with. He doesn't give a ****, and a lot of people still think he is doing the best he can under the circumstances. The truth is there will only be real change when society is so damaged and middle England is really hurting that there is serious social unrest. This country is fast becoming a mirror of what is happening in America, and where that will end up is anyone's guess.
The only suggestion I can make as a reasonably sane person is that I might just know the answer .....
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You just got me whistling this now
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How you feeling BTW Kaito?
Cheers No.7. To be honest I feel like ****. The aches and pains have more or less gone but my lung capacity is way down, and the doc reckons it's reduced by about 40%, which is kind of scary. The good news is that I'm still alive and kicking, and I was thrilled to see Gollum and his side-kick get chucked out of Downing Street. I would have laughed my arse off if I had the energy but I opened a new bottle of Bombo Caramel Spiced Rum and had a few stiff drinks. 40% proof Rum to compensate for the missing 40% of air I try to breathe. It works for me.
Good discussion from a range of positions from centre to left
Politics is the art of the possible
A long journey is made up of a lot of small steps. If voting Labour for you is too small a step then just think that at least it is a small step in the right direction and if there’s another one after that and another ... who knows where it will take you
Politics is the art of the possible
A long journey is made up of a lot of small steps. If voting Labour for you is too small a step then just think that at least it is a small step in the right direction and if there’s another one after that and another ... who knows where it will take you
Is this a mock up, or has the Mail really printed this?
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