Off Topic Politics Thread

[Billy Bates]

The issue is that as a country gets richer poverty should reduce. The general trend is currently the opposite and is exacerbated by this govs policies. I’ve personally never known such a problem for the ‘working poor’ in my lifetime. Used to be if you had a job then you weren’t generally ‘poor’, but then we had social housing. I went to school with plenty of kids on school dinners and they may not have eaten really well other times but I never noticed any of them actually being hungry. The pandemic has added pressure on poor families and they need support. No recent gov has been perfect but this one needs us to provide it with something akin to a conscience

Thanks for this response, I enjoyed reading it. I think these things you talk of are interesting, and are wider societal issues, rather than just government initiated.

When we were young, we really didn’t have much money, but we never went without, and in the main due to my parents recognising they couldn’t really afford to feed a family of 4 children, and smoke, drink alcohol and go out much. So they chose to feed us and gave up on pretty much all the other stuff.

I dont believe society nowadays always makes similar sacrifices for children, we are a society that is focused on the here and now, and availability of massive TVs, the best trainers etc. All whilst still not making other lifestyle choices. Now I’m not for 1 minute claiming there aren’t people who cant afford food for the table that dont fall into this category, there absolutely are, and something urgent needs to be done to support them. But there are many others who fall into the cant put food on the table due to other reasons without looking inwardly too.

And by people just blaming the government are overlooking at the reasons that genuine people cant put food on the table, as to fix the issue, one needs to understand the issue first.

 

[Billy Bates]

We have had ten years of crippling ideoligical austerity that has affected greatly the most vunerable in society and it has been a Tory govenment that has driven it.

The poverty gap has widened greatly in this period.

See, I’d have more respect for your post if you removed the work ‘Tory’ - it isn’t relevant, it is just the government, but people put their political prejudices into it which is unnecessary. It is a bit like, for me anyway, when reporters talk about someone, and feel obliged to put in their age, or when someone commits a crime, and the reporter feels obliged to tell the audience they were white, black or purple with green spots, for me it isn’t relevant, and I look at the views as biased from the outset.

 

[shoot_spiderman]

But the two aren’t linked, in that hungry children and money given to companies are not the same conversation. Children shouldn’t go hungry. Ever. Full stop.

And It isn’t just a disgrace that it is happening now, it is a disgrace that it ever happened, a disgrace that the last 50, 40, 30, 20, 10 years of governments, collectively, chose to do **** all about it. But as something is happening now, people choose to cheaply point score against this government, by all accounts the only ones to have started to have addressed the problems, but get **** because the problems still aren’t fixed.

This is the bit that twists my tits, because I believe far more can be achieved collectively, than by simply replacing one **** government with another **** government, which if/when labour or whoever get it, will still be the case.

I do get your point and agree partly but how you going to improve things collectively when any prospective government offering more income equality, proper public funding and equality of opportunity will be defeated at the polls by people being fed propaganda by the billionaire owned media?

I would love that the ordinary people of this country would find some collective spirit and we are in the majority. Hasn’t worked well with the Brexit issue though has it?

 

[Billy Bates]

We should start a civil war Billy

Why?

 

[ChilcoSaint]

But the two aren’t linked, in that hungry children and money given to companies are not the same conversation. Children shouldn’t go hungry. Ever. Full stop.

And It isn’t just a disgrace that it is happening now, it is a disgrace that it ever happened, a disgrace that the last 50, 40, 30, 20, 10 years of governments, collectively, chose to do **** all about it. But as something is happening now, people choose to cheaply point score against this government, by all accounts the only ones to have started to have addressed the problems, but get **** because the problems still aren’t fixed.

This is the bit that twists my tits, because I believe far more can be achieved collectively, than by simply replacing one **** government with another **** government, which if/when labour or whoever get it, will still be the case.

I agree with you that this is a long term issue Billy, but surely you can understand why people are angry now? 322 Tory MP’s voted down a Labour motion to extend free school meals over the Christmas holidays. The need is greater at the moment because so many children’s parents are laid off or furloughed or on reduced hours because of the pandemic. That’s why Marcus Rashford has been campaigning, and that’s why Labour raised the motion which gained cross-party support, apart from those 322 Tory MP’s. Please explain why we shouldn’t be angry with the government for whipping their MP’s to defeat a perfectly reasonable motion.

 

[Billy Bates]

I do get your point and agree partly but how you going to improve things collectively when any prospective government offering more income equality, proper public funding and equality of opportunity will be defeated at the polls by people being fed propaganda by the billionaire owned media?

I would love that the ordinary people of this country would find some collective spirit and we are in the majority. Hasn’t worked well with the Brexit issue though has it?

As i keep saying, this is a societal issue wider than the government - they are just an outlet for me.

People 20 years ago would have said the regimes in totalitarian states across the globe would never be toppled, yet they were, whilst mainly through force and mass death, still achieved through a collective attitude and will.

It’s funny your comment about the ordinary people of this country, as that in context is down to the individual, and how one perceives ordinary. Is it someone’s age, political beliefs, background, salary, where their home is based? If I look back 30 years ago - we were fairly poor, etc and I would have probably been classed as one of the ordinaries. Forward 30 years, and would I be called something far different as my financial situation vastly changed - yet I am still pretty much the same as I was 30 years ago - very childish

 

[Saints_Alive]

See, I’d have more respect for your post if you removed the work ‘Tory’ - it isn’t relevant, it is just the government, but people put their political prejudices into it which is unnecessary. It is a bit like, for me anyway, when reporters talk about someone, and feel obliged to put in their age, or when someone commits a crime, and the reporter feels obliged to tell the audience they were white, black or purple with green spots, for me it isn’t relevant, and I look at the views as biased from the outset.

Isn't relevant?, the other parties all opposed the unnecessarily severe austerity policies that have caused so much hardship. The usage of food banks and amount of homelessness has risen sharply as well as child poverty who else do you think is responsible other than the Conservative govenment that has been in power for the last decade?

 

[thereisonlyoneno7]

I agree with Chilcs - it is about the here and now. If the roles were reversed and a Labour govt were in and rejected the call, we's all be up in arms about it and blaming them. I would anyway.

 

[Billy Bates]

I agree with you that this is a long term issue Billy, but surely you can understand why people are angry now? 322 Tory MP’s voted down a Labour motion to extend free school meals over the Christmas holidays. The need is greater at the moment because so many children’s parents are laid off or furloughed or on reduced hours because of the pandemic. That’s why Marcus Rashford has been campaigning, and that’s why Labour raised the motion which gained cross-party support, apart from those 322 Tory MP’s. Please explain why we shouldn’t be angry with the government for whipping their MP’s to defeat a perfectly reasonable motion.

Chilcs - in total agreement with you around people being angry. But why have Labour only tabled this now, after Rashford did something? Now it could be out of their hearts, or as a means to score against the competition - now i get that, they are in a competitive landscape, and i would rather action taken.

So people can be angry with this government, I’m simply making the point that Labour, nor any other Government have ever done something about this issue, and it took someone, not a politician to affect change. So why cant everyone be angry with Labour also for not doing this instead of Rashford in the first place? Our for never doing it before.

My other point on this is that the Government did do something about this for the Summer holidays, which was fantastic. So why not garner, collectively, the benefits that had and praise a government who has acted, so they recognise this can make them popular, to affect further change?

 

[fatletiss]

Why?

I wasn’t being serious. Just trying to have a little light moment suggesting we could pull the people together (following your collectively remark) and stop the party sided stuff...

it didn’t work.

 

[Billy Bates]

Isn't relevant?, the other parties all opposed the unnecessarally severe austerity policies that have caused so much hardship. The usage of food banks and amount of homelessness has risen sharply as well as child poverty who else do you think is responsible other than the Conservative govenment that has been in power for the last decade?

No, it isn’t relevant to mention Tories, or Labour - for me anyway. They are the Government. People only label things when it suits them.

Has one of you ever commented that the Conservative Government were the first to fund kids meals over the summer? Didn’t think so And that is my point.

Like I’ve said sooooo many times before, i dont support the tories or labour, my views are therefore not really swayed by any sense of loyalty to one part over another. So many peoples are though...

 

[Billy Bates]

I wasn’t being serious. Just trying to have a little light moment suggesting we could pull the people together (following your collectively remark) and stop the party sided stuff...

it didn’t work.

Ah, soz - I didn’t know if it was a historical reference, and as many people seem to think on here - I am a bit thick

Thanks fo lightening the mood - well worth it.

Anyhow in an attempt to diffuse the situation - I do declare I am ready for my morning ****.

 

[shoot_spiderman]

Thanks for this response, I enjoyed reading it. I think these things you talk of are interesting, and are wider societal issues, rather than just government initiated.

When we were young, we really didn’t have much money, but we never went without, and in the main due to my parents recognising they couldn’t really afford to feed a family of 4 children, and smoke, drink alcohol and go out much. So they chose to feed us and gave up on pretty much all the other stuff.

I dont believe society nowadays always makes similar sacrifices for children, we are a society that is focused on the here and now, and availability of massive TVs, the best trainers etc. All whilst still not making other lifestyle choices. Now I’m not for 1 minute claiming there aren’t people who cant afford food for the table that dont fall into this category, there absolutely are, and something urgent needs to be done to support them. But there are many others who fall into the cant put food on the table due to other reasons without looking inwardly too.

And by people just blaming the government are overlooking at the reasons that genuine people cant put food on the table, as to fix the issue, one needs to understand the issue first.

Indeed. It’s complicated

But poor people haven’t ‘got selfish’ in a vacuum, they reflect us all. We’ve all been convinced we need more stuff, why should they be any different. The issue is the never-ending cycle of consumerism. And people say Socialism doesn’t work!

Also poverty isn’t just financial, we’ve now got increased poverty of aspiration and reduced social mobility

 

[Saints_Alive]

No, it isn’t relevant to mention Tories, or Labour - for me anyway. They are the Government. People only label things when it suits them.

Has one of you ever commented that the Conservative Government were the first to fund kids meals over the summer? Didn’t think so And that is my point.

Like I’ve said sooooo many times before, i dont support the tories or labour, my views are therefore not really swayed by any sense of loyalty to one part over another. So many peoples are though...

You have to hold governments to account as they are the ones that make the policies that affect all of our lives. If the Conservatives start to pursue socially cohesive policies for the benefit of the many in society rather than their benefactor's narrow interests then I would have no need to criticize them. I hold left of centre views so naturally I will be more in tune with Liberal and Labour policies but I will call them out if I think they screw up.

 

[Billy Bates]

You have to hold governments to account as they are the ones that make the policies that affect all of our lives. If the Conservatives start to pursue socially cohesive policies for the benefit of the many in society rather than their benefactor's narrow interests then I would have no need to criticize them. I hold left of centre views so naturally I will be more in tune with Liberal and Labour policies but I will call them out if I think they screw up.

which you just demonstrated in this post SA! You talk about holding governments to account, yet still overlook credit for them at leas taking action. To me, i just dont get it!

 

[Saints_Alive]

which you just demonstrated in this post SA! You talk about holding governments to account, yet still overlook credit for them at leas taking action. To me, i just dont get it!

I said at the time that I was happy with the furlough scheme and there have been other Tory policies I have thought were good but generally I am not in tune with them.

 

[ChilcoSaint]

No, it isn’t relevant to mention Tories, or Labour - for me anyway. They are the Government. People only label things when it suits them.

Has one of you ever commented that the Conservative Government were the first to fund kids meals over the summer? Didn’t think so And that is my point.

Like I’ve said sooooo many times before, i dont support the tories or labour, my views are therefore not really swayed by any sense of loyalty to one part over another. So many peoples are though...

The Government eventually responded to a massive campaign by Marcus Rashford, supported by Labour, to extend free school meals for children over the summer holidays. The government didn’t do it spontaneously. As others have rightly said above, child poverty is increasing exponentially at the moment because of the pandemic, but from a baseline made much higher by the austerity policies of the last 10 years. The last Labour government lifted 600,000 children out of poverty, since 2010 that figure has gone in the opposite direction. Depending on which study you read, there are between 400,000 and a million more children living in poverty now than in 2010.

That is why people are angry. That is why they blame the Tories, and rightly so.

 

[Saints_Alive]

The Government eventually responded to a massive campaign by Marcus Rashford, supported by Labour, to extend free school meals for children over the summer holidays. The government didn’t do it spontaneously. As others have rightly said above, child poverty is increasing exponentially at the moment because of the pandemic, but from a baseline made much higher by the austerity policies of the last 10 years. The last Labour government lifted 600,000 children out of poverty, since 2010 that figure has gone in the opposite direction. Depending on which study you read, there are between 400,000 and a million more children living in poverty now than in 2010.

That is why people are angry. That is why they blame the Tories, and rightly so.

Yes, you've said it all there Chilcs.

 

[Billy Bates]

The Government eventually responded to a massive campaign by Marcus Rashford, supported by Labour, to extend free school meals for children over the summer holidays. The government didn’t do it spontaneously. As others have rightly said above, child poverty is increasing exponentially at the moment because of the pandemic, but from a baseline made much higher by the austerity policies of the last 10 years. The last Labour government lifted 600,000 children out of poverty, since 2010 that figure has gone in the opposite direction. Depending on which study you read, there are between 400,000 and a million more children living in poverty now than in 2010.

That is why people are angry. That is why they blame the Tories, and rightly so.

So, why Labour not doing anything about this when they were in power - or were kids not quite so hungry back then?

Look Chilcs, I’m not saying people cant get angry, that is up to them, i just dont see the balance, and you see things the way that suits you best, which is also fine.

 

[StJabbo1]

But the two aren’t linked, in that hungry children and money given to companies are not the same conversation. Children shouldn’t go hungry. Ever. Full stop.

And It isn’t just a disgrace that it is happening now, it is a disgrace that it ever happened, a disgrace that the last 50, 40, 30, 20, 10 years of governments, collectively, chose to do **** all about it. But as something is happening now, people choose to cheaply point score against this government, by all accounts the only ones to have started to have addressed the problems, but get **** because the problems still aren’t fixed.

This is the bit that twists my tits, because I believe far more can be achieved collectively, than by simply replacing one **** government with another **** government, which if/when labour or whoever get it, will still be the case.

Of course they are linked. Funds wasted in awarding contracts without due process or spaffed up the brexit wall EG Grayling's ferry fiasco could/should have gone to those who's need is exacerbated by CV-19.

We're told the UK economy is the 6th/7th strongest yet no money is available to feed the kids it's a disgrace These aren't cheap points, those that are least able are paying the cost of this inept government and it's predecessors austerity program.