Match Day Thread Vs Everton (A)

[InBiscanWeTrust]

Well, here's the thing. Believe this story if you want or not, but here goes. I work with a train driver from Harrogate who, apart from being an amateur, qualified ref himself, is good friends with Coote. I had a good chat with him yesterday and the one Yorkshireman I know who supports Everton.

Firstly, it's a myth that he's a Uniturd fan. Secondly, although this guy himself says there's absolutely no question at all that Pickford SHOULD have been dismissed, the ****-up was as much down to Oliver as Coote. Why? Well Oliver is held in that much esteem that even his colleagues are reluctant to second-guess him on incidents that they believe he clearly saw. Bizarrely, even though it's one of the main things VAR was introduced for, not many junior refs are comfortable even asking Oliver to review an incident.

So the PGMOL spent days flip-flopping over their story for one main reason - they're loathe to actually admit that their golden boy saw that incident and didn't see it as serious foul play. So they've thrown Coote under the bus, but my workmate, while sneering at his friend's spinelessness, blames Oliver 95% . As he says, no referee, even at his level, needed VAR to tell them that was a sending-off if they had a good sight of it.

Can only take your word for it but whether it’s true or not, we’ve said all along and even before var came in, that referees know each other and how many of them will want to look to overrule their colleagues and say, yeah you ****ed that up, best go change it. They’re going to stick up for each other in any situation where there is even a tiny bit of doubt.

doesnt surprise me that a junior member would feel less comfortable in questioning an older more experienced collleague.

I watch air crash investigation, and the amount of times you see the reasons why and it’s the captain has made a decision that’s wrong but the more junior pilot next to him doesn’t want to question it

 

[Zanjinho]

Can only take your word for it but whether it’s true or not, we’ve said all along and even before var came in, that referees know each other and how many of them will want to look to overrule their colleagues and say, yeah you ****ed that up, best go change it. They’re going to stick up for each other in any situation where there is even a tiny bit of doubt.

doesnt surprise me that a junior member would feel less comfortable in questioning an older more experienced collleague.

I watch air crash investigation, and the amount of times you see the reasons why and it’s the captain has made a decision that’s wrong but the more junior pilot next to him doesn’t want to question it

So what's the answer? Separate pitch and VAR officials? VAR staff only ever work on VAR and don't mix with pitch officials.

Whatever the solution, it's about time official (pitch or VAR) were made to explain their decision or, a better option imo, get microphones so we can hear them live.

 

[Solid Air]

So what's the answer? Separate pitch and VAR officials? VAR staff only ever work on VAR and don't mix with pitch officials.

Whatever the solution, it's about time official (pitch or VAR) were made to explain their decision or, a better option imo, get microphones so we can hear them live.

if you mike up the refs one problem is you would technically have to send off half the players on the pitch for foul & abusive language .

 

[Zanjinho]

if you mike up the refs one problem is you would technically have to send off half the players on the pitch for foul & abusive language .

Part of the original reason I wanted microphones was to stop the abuse players aim at the ref. They'd soon stop if (a) everyone can hear them and (b) they start missing games as a result.

Look at rugby and the respect the officials get there. Footballers act like kids!

 

[Solid Air]

Part of the original reason I wanted microphones was to stop the abuse players aim at the ref. They'd soon stop if (a) everyone can hear them and (b) they start missing games as a result.

Look at rugby and the respect the officials get there. Footballers act like kids!

Rugby is starting to have similar if much less frequent problems - oh and their Covid bubbles are ****e

 

[Zanjinho]

Rugby is starting to have similar if much less frequent problems - oh and their Covid bubbles are ****e

Worked for a long time, any problems showing now just need clamping down on.

 

[Tobes]

So what's the answer? Separate pitch and VAR officials? VAR staff only ever work on VAR and don't mix with pitch officials.

Whatever the solution, it's about time official (pitch or VAR) were made to explain their decision or, a better option imo, get microphones so we can hear them live.

Simple imo. VAR only gets involved if the error is clear and obvious and the micro managing of decisions is removed, plus referees are reminded that their egos are irrelevant to the entire game & that they need to truly accept both the need for VAR & that it’s not a personal reflection on them, it’s merely ensuring that clear and obvious **** ups are eradicated from the game and therefore don’t impact on results.

Riley needs to go, as his leadership and obvious dislike of the entire premise is not what the game needs.

 

[Zanjinho]

Simple imo. VAR only gets involved if the error is clear and obvious and the micro managing of decisions is removed, plus referees are reminded that their egos are irrelevant to the entire game & that they need to truly accept both the need for VAR & that it’s not a personal reflection on them, it’s merely ensuring that clear and obvious **** ups are eradicated from the game and therefore don’t impact on results.

Riley needs to go, as his leadership and obvious dislike of the entire premise is not what the game needs.

Easier said than done, people naturally look out for each other if there is a mutual benefit.

Better to remove the "risk" if possible

 

[RogerisontheHunt]

Easier said than done, people naturally look out for each other if there is a mutual benefit.

Simple imo. VAR only gets involved if the error is clear and obvious and the micro managing of decisions is removed, plus referees are reminded that their egos are irrelevant to the entire game & that they need to truly accept both the need for VAR & that it’s not a personal reflection on them, it’s merely ensuring that clear and obvious **** ups are eradicated from the game and therefore don’t impact on results.

Riley needs to go, as his leadership and obvious dislike of the entire premise is not what the game needs.

Foreign Refs?? (including the VAR teams)

Want impartiality, probably the closest you'll get. Not sure why a Man U fan was doing the Eve/Liver game VAR

 

[Tobes]

Easier said than done, people naturally look out for each other if there is a mutual benefit.

Better to remove the "risk" if possible

It’s the man at the top who creates the culture within an organisation and Riley is both a **** and a dinosaur.

Change him for a bloke who removes the idea that making a wrong call that’s set right by VAR is somehow a failure - as it isn’t, they’re humans and they only get one look at it - and you could change the whole way referees see the tool they’ve been given.

The first thing that needs to go is the offside lines. Make it purely a naked eye call and treat it merely as a ‘clear and obvious’ issue, as opposed to a finite ‘matter of fact’ as it’s become, which offside never has been, as its impossible for a lino to see let alone call, the millimetre decisions that VAR gives. But this would need global agreement in fairness.

All a fan ever wanted to see was the removal of the blatant wrong offside calls, where the player is half a yard plus the wrong side, where the lino has made an obvious error.

 

[Solid Air]

Worked for a long time, any problems showing now just need clamping down on.

moment they went pro it started .

 

[Solid Air]

It’s the man at the top who creates the culture within an organisation and Riley is both a **** and a dinosaur.

Change him for a bloke who removes the idea that making a wrong call that’s set right by VAR is somehow a failure - as it isn’t, they’re humans and they only get one look at it - and you could change the whole way referees see the tool they’ve been given.

The first thing that needs to go is the offside lines. Make it purely a naked eye call and treat it merely as a ‘clear and obvious’ issue, as opposed to a finite ‘matter of fact’ as it’s become, which offside never has been, as its impossible for a lino to see let alone call, the millimetre decisions that VAR gives. But this would need global agreement in fairness.

All a fan ever wanted to see was the removal of the blatant wrong offside calls, where the player is half a yard plus the wrong side, where the lino has made an obvious error.

my take on this is similar to cricket so the linesman gives a "soft" signal ,after the event , and only if that is clearly wrong does VAR change it .

 

[Tobes]

my take on this is similar to cricket so the linesman gives a "soft" signal ,after the event , and only if that is clearly wrong does VAR change it .

VAR can look at every one for me, but they only interfere either way if the decision is obviously wrong. If they can’t decide either way by using the naked eye on a couple of views, then they don’t get involved.

 

[Mr Beej]

moment they went pro it started .

Players or referees? Respect in rugby towards officials is still light years ahead.

 

[Solid Air]

Players or referees? Respect in rugby towards officials is still light years ahead.

players
yes it is ahead but has declined oh and that is without mentioning bloodgate and the fairly obvious doping problem .

 

[Solid Air]

VAR can look at every one for me, but they only interfere either way if the decision is obviously wrong. If they can’t decide either way by using the naked eye on a couple of views, then they don’t get involved.

Think we agree just wording it different .
Play carries on and when it stops linesman gives decision VAR checks and overturns only if clear error .

 

[Zanjinho]

The first thing that needs to go is the offside lines. Make it purely a naked eye call and treat it merely as a ‘clear and obvious’ issue, as opposed to a finite ‘matter of fact’ as it’s become, which offside never has been, as its impossible for a lino to see let alone call, the millimetre decisions that VAR gives. But this would need global agreement in fairness.

I'd research the idea of using technology. Offside line based on players feet position, **** the rest of the body. Put chips in their boots. Only question then is figuring out the moment the ball is passed or where the ball is (is the player behind the ball).

 

[Tobes]

Think we agree just wording it different .
Play carries on and when it stops linesman gives decision VAR checks and overturns only if clear error .

I agree with the lino not flagging until the move is done though, as we were on the wrong end of one of those at Leicester last season, lino flags, play carries on and they score, the offside was as tight as a nuns but given as on by VAR, but the players are always going to notice the flag and even if it only costs a spilt second that can be enough at the top level.

 

[Solid Air]

I'd research the idea of using technology. Offside line based on players feet position, **** the rest of the body. Put chips in their boots. Only question then is figuring out the moment the ball is passed or where the ball is (is the player behind the ball).

oh ffs i pointed out when VAR came in the only way to be accurate(ish) involved body suits with sensors plus the ball also to have sensors .


Didn't expect anyone to take it seriously

 

[Tobes]

I'd research the idea of using technology. Offside line based on players feet position, **** the rest of the body. Put chips in their boots. Only question then is figuring out the moment the ball is passed or where the ball is (is the player behind the ball).

I doubt the tech could figure that one tbh, but also if a player is leaning way forwards and he ends up scoring with his head, he could be half a yard plus offside and his feet on.