Off Topic Coronavirus

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Butthuber said:
Are you realy naive enough to believe every pathologist know how to identify the cause was Sars-CoV-2 ? Only specialised doctors (e.g. Medical examiner) are capable of doing that. The famous Hamburg based Medical examiner Püschel stated: In Hamburg no one has died of corona without previous illness. He had examined over a hundred so-calle Covid-19 deaths and came to the conclusion that all of them were seriously ill before.
Click to expand...
Again in UK you are wrong Butthuber
In UK we use the coroner system, and every coroner has to pass endless tests to become one.
It is true not every SARS victim under goes a post mortem, these are saved for deaths that are not due to an obvious cause.

But if a patient has tested postive (probably multiple times) for SARS2, and the disease follows the predicted course and the patient dies of respiratory or coronary dysfunction that has already been noteed 1000's, no 10000's, s no millions of times before, it is put down as death CoVid19. That is the way it works and it is logical and sensible. Comorbities are also put down on the death certificate too, such as coronary heart disease or diabetes, and lets be honest by the time we get into our 60-70's we all have co-morbidities.

In the UK , the medical examiner system has just been introduced. You will note they are not pathologists they are senior doctors who have a bit of legal knowledge...they look through the patients records and decide what to put on the death certificate (they never see the patient dead or alive).

https://www.england.nhs.uk/establis.../#introduction-to-the-medical-examiner-system

The national medical examiner system
A new medical examiner system is being rolled-out across England and Wales to provide greater scrutiny of deaths.

Introduction to the medical examiner system
The system will also offer a point of contact for bereaved families to raise concerns about the care provided prior to the death of a loved one.

Acute trusts in England and local health boards in Wales have been asked to begin setting up medical examiner offices to initially focus on the certification of all deaths that occur in their own organisation.

The purpose of the medical examiner system is to:

  • provide greater safeguards for the public by ensuring proper scrutiny of all non-coronial deaths
  • ensure the appropriate direction of deaths to the coroner
  • provide a better service for the bereaved and an opportunity for them to raise any concerns to a doctor not involved in the care of the deceased
  • improve the quality of death certification
  • improve the quality of mortality data.

Medical examiners
Medical examiners are senior medical doctors who are contracted for a number of sessions a week to undertake medical examiner duties, outside of their usual clinical duties. They are trained in the legal and clinical elements of death certification processes.

Medical examiner offices at acute trusts in England
Medical examiner offices at acute trusts will be staffed by a team of medical examiners, supported by medical examiner officers.

The role of these offices is to examine deaths to:

  • agree the proposed cause of death and the overall accuracy of the medical certificate cause of death
  • discuss the cause of death with the next of kin/informant and establishing if they have any concerns with care that could have impacted/led to death
  • act as a medical advice resource for the local coroner
  • inform the selection of cases for further review under local mortality arrangements and contributing to other clinical governance procedures.
Initially medical examiner offices are being asked to focus on the certification of deaths that occur within the acute trust where they are based. In time, they will be encouraged to work with local NHS partners and other stakeholders to plan how they can increase the service to cover the certification of all deaths within a specified geographical area. This will expand the service to cover deaths in other NHS and independent settings, as well as deaths in the community.

During the non-statutory phase of implementation we, along with the Department of Health and Social Care, will collectively support acute trusts to manage the financial impact of establishing and running local medical examiner offices.

Coronavirus Act – excess death provisions: information and guidance for medical practitioners
Coronavirus Act – excess death provisions: information and guidance for medical practitioners – The Coronavirus Act of Parliament gained Royal Assent on 25 March 2020, and the commencement order for the clauses relating to death certification and cremation forms was signed on 26 March 2020. Guidance and information on these clauses are set out in this document, along with previous COVID-19 advice issued on 10 March, also included in the document for completeness.

"In Hamburg no one has died of corona without previous illness. He had examined over a hundred so-calle Covid-19 deaths and came to the conclusion that all of them were seriously ill before."

That is certainly true of many people (but as said before, very very few peopls get into middle age and beyond without comorbidities), but not all....and many of the patients with comorbidities were not seriously ill...ill...had to take care of themselves yes...very ill NO
 
qprbeth said:
Again in UK you are wrong Butthuber
In UK we use the coroner system, and every coroner has to pass endless tests to become one.
It is true not every SARS victim under goes a post mortem, these are saved for deaths that are not due to an obvious cause.

But if a patient has tested postive (probably multiple times) for SARS2, and the disease follows the predicted course and the patient dies of respiratory or coronary dysfunction that has already been noteed 1000's, no 10000's, s no millions of times before, it is put down as death CoVid19. That is the way it works and it is logical and sensible. Comorbities are also put down on the death certificate too, such as coronary heart disease or diabetes, and lets be honest by the time we get into our 60-70's we all have co-morbidities.

In the UK , the medical examiner system has just been introduced. You will note they are not pathologists they are senior doctors who have a bit of legal knowledge...they look through the patients records and decide what to put on the death certificate (they never see the patient dead or alive).

https://www.england.nhs.uk/establis.../#introduction-to-the-medical-examiner-system

The national medical examiner system
A new medical examiner system is being rolled-out across England and Wales to provide greater scrutiny of deaths.

Introduction to the medical examiner system
The system will also offer a point of contact for bereaved families to raise concerns about the care provided prior to the death of a loved one.

Acute trusts in England and local health boards in Wales have been asked to begin setting up medical examiner offices to initially focus on the certification of all deaths that occur in their own organisation.

The purpose of the medical examiner system is to:

  • provide greater safeguards for the public by ensuring proper scrutiny of all non-coronial deaths
  • ensure the appropriate direction of deaths to the coroner
  • provide a better service for the bereaved and an opportunity for them to raise any concerns to a doctor not involved in the care of the deceased
  • improve the quality of death certification
  • improve the quality of mortality data.

Medical examiners
Medical examiners are senior medical doctors who are contracted for a number of sessions a week to undertake medical examiner duties, outside of their usual clinical duties. They are trained in the legal and clinical elements of death certification processes.

Medical examiner offices at acute trusts in England
Medical examiner offices at acute trusts will be staffed by a team of medical examiners, supported by medical examiner officers.

The role of these offices is to examine deaths to:

  • agree the proposed cause of death and the overall accuracy of the medical certificate cause of death
  • discuss the cause of death with the next of kin/informant and establishing if they have any concerns with care that could have impacted/led to death
  • act as a medical advice resource for the local coroner
  • inform the selection of cases for further review under local mortality arrangements and contributing to other clinical governance procedures.
Initially medical examiner offices are being asked to focus on the certification of deaths that occur within the acute trust where they are based. In time, they will be encouraged to work with local NHS partners and other stakeholders to plan how they can increase the service to cover the certification of all deaths within a specified geographical area. This will expand the service to cover deaths in other NHS and independent settings, as well as deaths in the community.

During the non-statutory phase of implementation we, along with the Department of Health and Social Care, will collectively support acute trusts to manage the financial impact of establishing and running local medical examiner offices.

Coronavirus Act – excess death provisions: information and guidance for medical practitioners
Coronavirus Act – excess death provisions: information and guidance for medical practitioners – The Coronavirus Act of Parliament gained Royal Assent on 25 March 2020, and the commencement order for the clauses relating to death certification and cremation forms was signed on 26 March 2020. Guidance and information on these clauses are set out in this document, along with previous COVID-19 advice issued on 10 March, also included in the document for completeness.

"In Hamburg no one has died of corona without previous illness. He had examined over a hundred so-calle Covid-19 deaths and came to the conclusion that all of them were seriously ill before."

That is certainly true of many people (but as said before, very very few peopls get into middle age and beyond without comorbidities), but not all....and many of the patients with comorbidities were not seriously ill...ill...had to take care of themselves yes...very ill NO
Click to expand...
Good informative post Beth - I am, however, deeply offended <laugh> This is pure agism - I am over 60 and have no co-morbidities !
 
qprbeth said:
Again in UK you are wrong Butthuber
In UK we use the coroner system, and every coroner has to pass endless tests to become one.
It is true not every SARS victim under goes a post mortem, these are saved for deaths that are not due to an obvious cause.

But if a patient has tested postive (probably multiple times) for SARS2, and the disease follows the predicted course and the patient dies of respiratory or coronary dysfunction that has already been noteed 1000's, no 10000's, s no millions of times before, it is put down as death CoVid19. That is the way it works and it is logical and sensible. Comorbities are also put down on the death certificate too, such as coronary heart disease or diabetes, and lets be honest by the time we get into our 60-70's we all have co-morbidities.

In the UK , the medical examiner system has just been introduced. You will note they are not pathologists they are senior doctors who have a bit of legal knowledge...they look through the patients records and decide what to put on the death certificate (they never see the patient dead or alive).

https://www.england.nhs.uk/establis.../#introduction-to-the-medical-examiner-system

The national medical examiner system
A new medical examiner system is being rolled-out across England and Wales to provide greater scrutiny of deaths.

Introduction to the medical examiner system
The system will also offer a point of contact for bereaved families to raise concerns about the care provided prior to the death of a loved one.

Acute trusts in England and local health boards in Wales have been asked to begin setting up medical examiner offices to initially focus on the certification of all deaths that occur in their own organisation.

The purpose of the medical examiner system is to:

  • provide greater safeguards for the public by ensuring proper scrutiny of all non-coronial deaths
  • ensure the appropriate direction of deaths to the coroner
  • provide a better service for the bereaved and an opportunity for them to raise any concerns to a doctor not involved in the care of the deceased
  • improve the quality of death certification
  • improve the quality of mortality data.

Medical examiners
Medical examiners are senior medical doctors who are contracted for a number of sessions a week to undertake medical examiner duties, outside of their usual clinical duties. They are trained in the legal and clinical elements of death certification processes.

Medical examiner offices at acute trusts in England
Medical examiner offices at acute trusts will be staffed by a team of medical examiners, supported by medical examiner officers.

The role of these offices is to examine deaths to:

  • agree the proposed cause of death and the overall accuracy of the medical certificate cause of death
  • discuss the cause of death with the next of kin/informant and establishing if they have any concerns with care that could have impacted/led to death
  • act as a medical advice resource for the local coroner
  • inform the selection of cases for further review under local mortality arrangements and contributing to other clinical governance procedures.
Initially medical examiner offices are being asked to focus on the certification of deaths that occur within the acute trust where they are based. In time, they will be encouraged to work with local NHS partners and other stakeholders to plan how they can increase the service to cover the certification of all deaths within a specified geographical area. This will expand the service to cover deaths in other NHS and independent settings, as well as deaths in the community.

During the non-statutory phase of implementation we, along with the Department of Health and Social Care, will collectively support acute trusts to manage the financial impact of establishing and running local medical examiner offices.

Coronavirus Act – excess death provisions: information and guidance for medical practitioners
Coronavirus Act – excess death provisions: information and guidance for medical practitioners – The Coronavirus Act of Parliament gained Royal Assent on 25 March 2020, and the commencement order for the clauses relating to death certification and cremation forms was signed on 26 March 2020. Guidance and information on these clauses are set out in this document, along with previous COVID-19 advice issued on 10 March, also included in the document for completeness.

"In Hamburg no one has died of corona without previous illness. He had examined over a hundred so-calle Covid-19 deaths and came to the conclusion that all of them were seriously ill before."

That is certainly true of many people (but as said before, very very few peopls get into middle age and beyond without comorbidities), but not all....and many of the patients with comorbidities were not seriously ill...ill...had to take care of themselves yes...very ill NO
Click to expand...

Hello Beth,

we can continue playing ping pong here since I could easily throw informations totally opposite to yours against yours - noone would want to follow that in detail (waiste of time).

Neither you nor the hornet seem to be impressed about the lies how numbers were pushed, the CDC dramatically reduced it´s death toll, nor the fact that the Economy is being destroyed. You are living in a world of your own and that´s fine with me - you are not my target group.

The destruction of the Economy will lead to a huge death toll in the UK, EU-Europe and the US - the main target of this fabricated p(l)andamic. Most of the readers and sceptics will find out in autumn - guaranteed.
 
Butthuber said:
Hello Beth,

we can continue playing ping pong here since I could easily throw informations totally opposite to yours against yours - noone would want to follow that in detail (waiste of time).

Neither you nor the hornet seem to be impressed about the lies how numbers were pushed, the CDC dramatically reduced it´s death toll, nor the fact that the Economy is being destroyed. You are living in a world of your own and that´s fine with me - you are not my target group.

The destruction of the Economy will lead to a huge death toll in the UK, EU-Europe and the US - the main target of this fabricated p(l)andamic. Most of the readers and sceptics will find out in autumn - guaranteed.
Click to expand...
I will put a tenner on it they dont
 
@bobmid

I did not mean to be arrogant here and all I am trying to say is that the Economies are bleeding dry on purpose.There are mighty people that are capable of doing this and that is what we are experiencing here. If anyone believes or fears the virus I do respect that but I can guarantee you that this is only part of the game (fearmongering) and at least nobody in a healthy condition has to fear the Sars-CoV-2 virus. My mother is 80 years old and she feared that we could not see each other but she never ever feared that virus a single moment.
 
Butthuber said:
Hello Beth,

we can continue playing ping pong here since I could easily throw informations totally opposite to yours against yours - noone would want to follow that in detail (waiste of time).

Neither you nor the hornet seem to be impressed about the lies how numbers were pushed, the CDC dramatically reduced it´s death toll, nor the fact that the Economy is being destroyed. You are living in a world of your own and that´s fine with me - you are not my target group.

The destruction of the Economy will lead to a huge death toll in the UK, EU-Europe and the US - the main target of this fabricated p(l)andamic. Most of the readers and sceptics will find out in autumn - guaranteed.
Click to expand...
HI Butthuber
I have never ever denied the economy is being ruined...I am saying it is a natural response to the pandemic, it is not a deliberate plan by Bill Gates, David Icke or even Cologne Hornet.
The pandemic is real. The effect it has on people , society and governments is real.
There is no conspiracy...this is real life...being lived out in the raw.
Stop deluding yourself there is any control here, there is none.

The sooner you take your life into your hands Butthuber and stop thinking you are being controlled by above, then the safer and happier you will be
 
qprbeth said:
HI Butthuber
I have never ever denied the economy is being ruined...I am saying it is a natural response to the pandemic, it is not a deliberate plan by Bill Gates, David Icke or even Cologne Hornet.
The pandemic is real. The effect it has on people , society and governments is real.
There is no conspiracy...this is real life...being lived out in the raw.
Stop deluding yourself there is any control here, there is none.

The sooner you take your life into your hands Butthuber and stop thinking you are being controlled by above, then the safer and happier you will be
Click to expand...

Hello Beth,

during 2007/2008 Subprime crisis I found out how the world is being run - totally opposite to my prior believes. I am a successful Entrepreneur who changed his live and views. Unfortunately you do not have any idea how this world is being run, how powerful people are trasitioning this world into a communist world which needs the destruction of the Economy first and of course needs strong believers of a non-existend pandemic.

You seem to be a nice person but unfortunately not willing to accept that we have been misled by politians (muppets). You will soon find out that more an more countries will be like Australia et al. The changes we will experience within the next 12 months will be drastically and the awakening of the many sheeples in 2021 will be too late unfortunately.

Rgds
 
Butthuber said:
Hello Beth,

during 2007/2008 Subprime crisis I found out how the world is being run - totally opposite to my prior believes. I am a successful Entrepreneur who changed his live and views. Unfortunately you do not have any idea how this world is being run, how powerful people are trasitioning this world into a communist world which needs the destruction of the Economy first and of course needs strong believers of a non-existend pandemic.

You seem to be a nice person but unfortunately not willing to accept that we have been misled by politians (muppets). You will soon find out that more an more countries will be like Australia et al. The changes we will experience within the next 12 months will be drastically and the awakening of the many sheeples in 2021 will be too late unfortunately.

Rgds
Click to expand...
What can we do ?
 
Butthuber said:
Hello Beth,

during 2007/2008 Subprime crisis I found out how the world is being run - totally opposite to my prior believes. I am a successful Entrepreneur who changed his live and views. Unfortunately you do not have any idea how this world is being run, how powerful people are trasitioning this world into a communist world which needs the destruction of the Economy first and of course needs strong believers of a non-existend pandemic.

You seem to be a nice person but unfortunately not willing to accept that we have been misled by politians (muppets). You will soon find out that more an more countries will be like Australia et al. The changes we will experience within the next 12 months will be drastically and the awakening of the many sheeples in 2021 will be too late unfortunately.

Rgds
Click to expand...
Why should the powerfull elite which you say is behind this have any interest in creating a Communist World run by the workers ? Please explain how you form this connection.
 
qprbeth said:
HI Butthuber
I have never ever denied the economy is being ruined...I am saying it is a natural response to the pandemic, it is not a deliberate plan by Bill Gates, David Icke or even Cologne Hornet.
The pandemic is real. The effect it has on people , society and governments is real.
There is no conspiracy...this is real life...being lived out in the raw.
Stop deluding yourself there is any control here, there is none.

The sooner you take your life into your hands Butthuber and stop thinking you are being controlled by above, then the safer and happier you will be
Click to expand...
What plan by Colognehornet Beth <laugh> I have no plan and just want this over as quickly as possible. Like yourself I believe it to be a natural response to an unusual crisis - where governments were initially groping in the dark. Social distancing of some sort or other has always been a tried and trusted way of coping with epidemics, together with restrictions of movement, although some of the measures used have been shooting in the dark.
 
bobmid said:
What can we do ?
Click to expand...

Get yourself prepared about the following:

- do not accept any vaccination related to Sars-Cov-2 (Covid-19)
- digital currency will replace cash, look for other assets
- take care of your money on your bank account. Your are lendig the money to the bank it is not yours anymore.
- have some food and beverages at home (4 weeks should be ok)

Most important is getting prepared, informing your family about the very, very hard times to come and sticking togehter.

Believe me, you better get yourself prepared somehow and do accept that things will change dramatically very soon. I am NOT a conspiracy theorist at all - my only intention is to warn you about the changes !
 
Butthuber said:
Get yourself prepared about the following:

- do not accept any vaccination related to Sars-Cov-2 (Covid-19)
- digital currency will replace cash, look for other assets
- take care of your money on your bank account. Your are lendig the money to the bank it is not yours anymore.
- have some food and beverages at home (4 weeks should be ok)

Most important is getting prepared, informing your family about the very, very hard times to come and sticking togehter.

Believe me, you better get yourself prepared somehow and do accept that things will change dramatically very soon. I am NOT a conspiracy theorist at all - my only intention is to warn you about the changes !
Click to expand...
Of course you're a conspiracy theorist - you believe that there was a conspiracy to create the Covid 19 crisis, which in turn leads to a takeover by a mysterious unnamed elite, which finally turns into Communism ! This conspiracy also involves the active cooperation of Bill Gates, George Soros and Greta Thunberg, together with all the World's health authorities and governments. This sounds to me very much a conspiracy theory. So my conclusion would be if it talks like a duck, walks like one, then it probably is one <doh>
 
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