Off Topic Playing the race card!

[Owld Feller]

When will this end?

I see the lawyer representing the Grenfell survivors is the latest to jump on the bandwagon by playing the race card!

Mr Thomas said there were "parallel themes" between the Grenfell fire, the killing of George Floyd in the US and the "disproportionate" number of coronavirus deaths among people from minority ethnic backgrounds, adding: "Race and state obligation are at the heart of all three cases."

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-53320082

Where will it end?

I fully expect to read about someone wanting Baa baa black sheep deleted from all library books next.

 

[Smug in Boots]

All this does is make it appear that people are wildly exaggerating the situation which destroys their argument.

Ordinary people are living through a crisis, looking forward to years of austerity and worrying about jobs, mortgages etc.

They'll look at idiot aims, like these, and just think 'give it a rest' and look away ...

... as you say, it's becoming laughable now.

 

[----HistoryRepeating----]

There seems to be a new story every day. Bianca Williams & boyf complaining about police brutality. They were so concerned that they decided not to stop but to drive home, then ignore instructions to vacate the car.
I generally follow the police instructions, it seems to not annoy them as much!

 

[SAFCDRUM]

People who have complete sympathy with the 'movement' now have their own worries, jobs, money, health. These accusations give them less credibility IMO.

 

[Smug in Boots]

There seems to be a new story every day. Bianca Williams & boyf complaining about police brutality. They were so concerned that they decided not to stop but to drive home, then ignore instructions to vacate the car.
I generally follow the police instructions, it seems to not annoy them as much!

BLM are asking all people, white or black, to stand up/kneel down and be counted.

If this couple don't take legal action, after their allegations of racially motivated police brutality, why should anyone else bother ...

... their claims were quite specific, there are recordings of the incident and they obviously have the money to take the police to court.

If they don't they're either liars or hypocrites, no way of denying that. If they're lying they should apologise to the police, if they're hypocrites they should apologise to black people.

If they're truthful and take legal action, good luck to them ... I've no great love of the police.

 

[Evil Jimmy Krankie]

Looks like The Met have backed down, apologised and ordered a review into the use of handcuffs.

 

[Smug in Boots]

Looks like The Met have backed down, apologised and ordered a review into the use of handcuffs.

I've read the report and honestly don't understand how they've 'backed down' or ordered a review.
(Asking someone to review something isn't the same as ordering a review.)

They've said they were sorry for any distress caused which isn't apologising for pulling them up.

The police were doing their job, not on the prowl for black people to attack. They were doing exactly what I'd expect from them.

https://amp.theguardian.com/uk-news...ogise-for-handcuffing-athlete-bianca-williams

"Dick told the committee that black people were not just disproportionately affected by stop and search powers but were more likely to be victims and perpetrators of violent crime in London.

She said 72% of homicide victims under 25 were black, and that black people were four times more likely to be a victim of homicide and eight times more likely to be a perpetrator."

 

[Saf]

I've read the report and honestly don't understand how they've 'backed down' or ordered a review.
(Asking someone to review something isn't the same as ordering a review.)

They've said they were sorry for any distress caused which isn't apologising for pulling them up.

The police were doing their job, not on the prowl for black people to attack. They were doing exactly what I'd expect from them.

https://amp.theguardian.com/uk-news...ogise-for-handcuffing-athlete-bianca-williams

"Dick told the committee that black people were not just disproportionately affected by stop and search powers but were more likely to be victims and perpetrators of violent crime in London.

She said 72% of homicide victims under 25 were black, and that black people were four times more likely to be a victim of homicide and eight times more likely to be a perpetrator."

This is why we need to have an honest grown up debate about what’s happening in London. You can look at every statistic for gun crime, knife crime, muggings etc and the statistics do show that the majority of these crimes are committed disproportionately by black people. That’s a fact and therefore, in my opinion, justifies the MET stopping and searching more black people. If these crimes were committed by a male wearing a grey jumper then males wearing grey jumpers would be disproportionately stopped more than people wearing other colours of jumpers. As you would expect.

As always you should look to the root cause of why there’s so much crime committed disproportionately by black people and it will probably lead back to poverty and lack of opportunities. That would be a genuine issue that could be tackled, but for the time being, while black folk lead the league tables they’re going to be targeted a little more.

That’s life.

 

[Evil Jimmy Krankie]

I've read the report and honestly don't understand how they've 'backed down' or ordered a review.
(Asking someone to review something isn't the same as ordering a review.)

They've said they were sorry for any distress caused which isn't apologising for pulling them up.

The police were doing their job, not on the prowl for black people to attack. They were doing exactly what I'd expect from them.

https://amp.theguardian.com/uk-news...ogise-for-handcuffing-athlete-bianca-williams

"Dick told the committee that black people were not just disproportionately affected by stop and search powers but were more likely to be victims and perpetrators of violent crime in London.

She said 72% of homicide victims under 25 were black, and that black people were four times more likely to be a victim of homicide and eight times more likely to be a perpetrator."

Ok, it was me being lazy and reading the BBC headline and not actually reading the report. That said, as a serving police officer, it is demoralising to see things like this where senior officers routinely apologise for their rank and file doing their job properly.
In this instance there was no need to apologise. Two investigations showed that the officers had done nothing wrong. Why was there any need to say sorry at all? Especially for the so called distress caused. What about the distress to the officers who were the subject of the complaint? In the current climate I can guarantee that they would have been worried about their job going down the toilet. I can tell you from personal experience that being complained about as a cop is no nice thing. Even when you’ve done nothing wrong you know that there will be someone willing to throw you under the bus.
I don’t know if the regulations have changed since 2007 but if the complaint made was not considered serious it was dealt with by way of ‘informal resolution.’ What that meant was that someone complained about you. You were hauled into the Inspectors office, told about the complaint then signed the informal resolution. There was absolutely no right of reply. Where’s the fairness in that? For someone who prides themselves on their honesty and integrity it kind of sticks in the throat that the complainant could say what they wanted but you couldn’t.

 

[Smug in Boots]

This is why we need to have an honest grown up debate about what’s happening in London. You can look at every statistic for gun crime, knife crime, muggings etc and the statistics do show that the majority of these crimes are committed disproportionately by black people. That’s a fact and therefore, in my opinion, justifies the MET stopping and searching more black people. If these crimes were committed by a male wearing a grey jumper then males wearing grey jumpers would be disproportionately stopped more than people wearing other colours of jumpers. As you would expect.

As always you should look to the root cause of why there’s so much crime committed disproportionately by black people and it will probably lead back to poverty and lack of opportunities. That would be a genuine issue that could be tackled, but for the time being, while black folk lead the league tables they’re going to be targeted a little more.

That’s life.

"As always you should look to the root cause of why there’s so much crime committed disproportionately by black people and it will probably lead back to poverty and lack of opportunities."

I'm sure that's true mate. People without money are more likely to commit low level crime.

But if people want frank open discussions there has to be harsh honest questions on all sides.

You have to ask why there seems to be a culture, among black men, to get women pregnant and leave them to bring children up alone. No idea of stats but I think it's more than twice that of white families. In the USA it's more like 3 times which is disgraceful.

Black music has a worrying tendency to deride women, white music tends to praise women. Black music often references conflict, gangs and 'respect'. But it's not respect for society, its an aggressive attitude. Videos, that accompany black music, often feature outrageous displays of wealth that many black kids know they'll never have.

This is all demoralising imo and leads to poverty, aggression and the reason black kids join gangs, disrespect society and perpetuate the problem.

Yes, let's have open honest discussions but they have to start with black people being able to accept their own responsibility ...

... it's not enough to blame everything on white prejudice.

 

[Smug in Boots]

Ok, it was me being lazy and reading the BBC headline and not actually reading the report. That said, as a serving police officer, it is demoralising to see things like this where senior officers routinely apologise for their rank and file doing their job properly.
In this instance there was no need to apologise. Two investigations showed that the officers had done nothing wrong. Why was there any need to say sorry at all? Especially for the so called distress caused. What about the distress to the officers who were the subject of the complaint? In the current climate I can guarantee that they would have been worried about their job going down the toilet. I can tell you from personal experience that being complained about as a cop is no nice thing. Even when you’ve done nothing wrong you know that there will be someone willing to throw you under the bus.
I don’t know if the regulations have changed since 2007 but if the complaint made was not considered serious it was dealt with by way of ‘informal resolution.’ What that meant was that someone complained about you. You were hauled into the Inspectors office, told about the complaint then signed the informal resolution. There was absolutely no right of reply. Where’s the fairness in that? For someone who prides themselves on their honesty and integrity it kind of sticks in the throat that the complainant could say what they wanted but you couldn’t.

Cheers mate, good reply.

I agree that this is poor for the 'bobby on the beat' who'll now be slightly compromised.

However if this couple 'back down' and accept a half arsed 'apology' they're guilty of the same crime white people are being accused of ...

... namely, failing to stand up to racism.

They've claimed this was a brutal racially motivated attack on them ...

... so stand up, be counted and do something.

 

[Dancingstripes]

"As always you should look to the root cause of why there’s so much crime committed disproportionately by black people and it will probably lead back to poverty and lack of opportunities."

I'm sure that's true mate. People without money are more likely to commit low level crime.

But if people want frank open discussions there has to be harsh honest questions on all sides.

You have to ask why there seems to be a culture, among black men, to get women pregnant and leave them to bring children up alone. No idea of stats but I think it's more than twice that of white families. In the USA it's more like 3 times which is disgraceful.

Black music has a worrying tendency to deride women, white music tends to praise women. Black music often references conflict, gangs and 'respect'. But it's not respect for society, its an aggressive attitude. Videos, that accompany black music, often feature outrageous displays of wealth that many black kids know they'll never have.

This is all demoralising imo and leads to poverty, aggression and the reason black kids join gangs, disrespect society and perpetuate the problem.

Yes, let's have open honest discussions but they have to start with black people being able to accept their own responsibility ...

... it's not enough to blame everything on white prejudice.

If somebody like Anthony Joshua came out publicly and asked the black community to look within themselves, to see what they could fix themselves, that's the moment I would start to listen to them.

All the time they carry on totally blaming the white population and constantly playing the victims, I will have no sympathy for whatever situation they are painting.

I'm all for equality, but to achieve that everybody has to work together and pull in the right direction.

I'm afraid this BLM movement is only pulling us apart.

 

[Smug in Boots]

If somebody like Anthony Joshua came out publicly and asked the black community to look within themselves, to see what they could fix themselves, that's the moment I would start to listen to them.

All the time they carry on totally blaming the white population and constantly playing the victims, I will have no sympathy for whatever situation they are painting.

I'm all for equality, but to achieve that everybody has to work together and pull in the right direction.

I'm afraid this BLM movement is only pulling us apart.

Not one black person, including him, will remind black lads that it's not nice to keep stabbing each other to death, on public streets, in broad daylight.

Why?

 

[marcusblackcat]

There seems to be a new story every day. Bianca Williams & boyf complaining about police brutality. They were so concerned that they decided not to stop but to drive home, then ignore instructions to vacate the car.
I generally follow the police instructions, it seems to not annoy them as much!

I saw that yesterday!! If the police put their lights on, it's to pull you over. They have every right to do so and are allowed to do spot checks on tyres and things I believe. If you don't stop and don't follow police instruction, what do you expect? Using the "You targetted me because I'm black" card is irrelevant. They often pull over my mate who's 22 and drives an Evo X. He is targetted because he's a young lad in a fast car. He whinges about it but not to this extent and he's probably been pulled over more than 10 times in 6 months since getting the car!

 

[Montysoptician]

I’m confused, in March/April 2019 at a meeting in London, community leaders asked police to increase Stop and Search in their area and to target young black people to prevent them killing each other, yet Stop and Search is seen as Institutional Racism.

I am confused, because having never been conscious of a person’s colour/race/creed/religion and have lived by the adage of treating people how I would expect to be treated, I am now told I should see someone’s colour, because to not see it is denying a heritage and history that must be retained, but statues depicting that heritage and history are targeted and destroyed.

I am confused, because during 32 years of public service, I have had numerous official instructions of how to address BAME people, Black, Brown, Coloured, Mixed Race, Afro-Caribbean, Asian etc. The daftest one was the issuing of an order to change all paperwork that included the term Ethnic Minority to read Minority Ethnic. I am confused because my initial training in 1982 warned against pigeon holing and that people must be treated as individuals.

I am confused, the apology issued by Cressida Dick to Bianca Williams undermines the ability of her officers to carry out their duties effectively and allows them to be conditioned into 'turning a blind eye' to certain aspects of their job, remember the Asian grooming gangs whose ethnicity made authorities wary of expeditiously investigating their horrendous crimes against vulnerable young people. Do we never learn from our mistakes?

I am confused? To bloody right I am

 

[cumbrianmackem]

As a retired police officer (over 25 years now) it saddens me to see the response from the Met Chief Miss Dick.
this is not how to back up the lads at the sharp end but it is the way to ingratiate yourself as a quasi politician which is what the role as head of the Met Police has become
she has never lead from the front as the shooting on the underground showed us years ago but even that didn't stop her reaching the top of the greasy promotion pole.
from what I've seen in the camera Williams held in front of her showed to me if they had stopped and got out of the car when asked to do so this wouldn't even be a story but they themselves have turned this into a black v white issue.
We had bosses who backed us up in our day but if you overstepped the mark they fell on you like a ton of coal which was quite right, now all I see is senior officers covering their arses from all angles.
Cressida Dick is aptly named, I find her totally out of her depth.

 

[marcusblackcat]

I’m confused, in March/April 2019 at a meeting in London, community leaders asked police to increase Stop and Search in their area and to target young black people to prevent them killing each other, yet Stop and Search is seen as Institutional Racism.

I am confused, because having never been conscious of a person’s colour/race/creed/religion and have lived by the adage of treating people how I would expect to be treated, I am now told I should see someone’s colour, because to not see it is denying a heritage and history that must be retained, but statues depicting that heritage and history are targeted and destroyed.

I am confused, because during 32 years of public service, I have had numerous official instructions of how to address BAME people, Black, Brown, Coloured, Mixed Race, Afro-Caribbean, Asian etc. The daftest one was the issuing of an order to change all paperwork that included the term Ethnic Minority to read Minority Ethnic. I am confused because my initial training in 1982 warned against pigeon holing and that people must be treated as individuals.

I am confused, the apology issued by Cressida Dick to Bianca Williams undermines the ability of her officers to carry out their duties effectively and allows them to be conditioned into 'turning a blind eye' to certain aspects of their job, remember the Asian grooming gangs whose ethnicity made authorities wary of expeditiously investigating their horrendous crimes against vulnerable young people. Do we never learn from our mistakes?

I am confused? To bloody right I am

Well said mate. I was always told that people are people. The colour of their skin doesn't matter and, if you thought it did, it makes you racist. Now it makes me racist to not think like that? [HASHTAG]#confused[/HASHTAG]

What are the odds of any black person being pulled over from now on, sticking their video on the phone and using the line "you only pulled me over because I am black" and then releasing it so the media can have their frenzy!

 

[Saf]

"As always you should look to the root cause of why there’s so much crime committed disproportionately by black people and it will probably lead back to poverty and lack of opportunities."

I'm sure that's true mate. People without money are more likely to commit low level crime.

But if people want frank open discussions there has to be harsh honest questions on all sides.

You have to ask why there seems to be a culture, among black men, to get women pregnant and leave them to bring children up alone. No idea of stats but I think it's more than twice that of white families. In the USA it's more like 3 times which is disgraceful.

Black music has a worrying tendency to deride women, white music tends to praise women. Black music often references conflict, gangs and 'respect'. But it's not respect for society, its an aggressive attitude. Videos, that accompany black music, often feature outrageous displays of wealth that many black kids know they'll never have.

This is all demoralising imo and leads to poverty, aggression and the reason black kids join gangs, disrespect society and perpetuate the problem.

Yes, let's have open honest discussions but they have to start with black people being able to accept their own responsibility ...

... it's not enough to blame everything on white prejudice.

I agree with that.

There’s a tendency from BLM to look the other way when there’s black racists mouthing off but apparent white racists from 300 years ago are being targeted and their statues being pulled down then you have to question why. The UK population wants equality and will support any movement in that direction. BLM want white people persecuted and special privileges for black people. They aren’t including Asians, what about the Asians? The Asian guys on this forum certainly don’t support the BLM movement.

It was bad when Anthony Joshua promoted only shopping in businesses owned by black people, it was unforgivable when he sent this text. ‘Superior race’. Anybody who thinks their race is superior to every other race is literally by definition, a racist. No outcry and until BLM call out all forms of racism then they shouldn’t be surprised at the lack of support that they have.

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[Essayyeffcee]

I've always been on the nature "take as you find" if you act like a total pratt, I'll treat you like one regardless of creed, colour or gender. A year ago at work, I mailed a manager of colour after he changed his work details for the umpteenth time for no apparent reason other than he changed his mind and told him that if he does it again, hell have to raise a whole new work detail. My managers knew what he was like - totally useless but bent over backwards to let him get his own way time after time (mainly for a quiet life) but since I told him no, he mailed my managers complaining of me "bullying" him. When I saw this mail, I then decided to make a formal complaint about it and lo and behold, when he was questioned about it, he accused me of racism! This quite rightly went down like a lead balloon and he was asked to provide evidence of mails I had sent showing this - funnily enough when the managers saw them, they couldn't find any form of racism whatsoever and he was forced to apologise. Now what I've asked myself since then, if the person who accuses racism a racist or the person who is being accused?

 

[Smug in Boots]

I think this couple may be guilty of judging the actions of these policemen by their colour ....

... I'm sure black policemen have done similar things in their jobs.

Pulling up people in cars, asking what they're up to and reacting is why they're there.