Off Topic Coronavirus

[qprbeth]

Beth, I’m very pleased that we have an evidence based reason to treat patients in severe condition in ICU with steroids......but wouldn’t this treatment be part of the standard of care for someone going through a cytokine storm anyway? It certainly would for severe sepsis/septic shock. Did the Recovery trial test something new/different in terms of timing or dose?

You are right...and there was nothing "special" as far as I know about the regime under the RECOVERY trial. But you know how clinical trials work, compare and contrast strictly under very defined conditions.

But yes, steroids are given for all forms of cytokine storms (sepsis, peritonitis) but there is now a clear rationale for using it....but not for hydroxychloroquine. That arm has now been ceased, as full numbers have been recruited, and without much effect. It is a shame that science disgraced itself by writing and publishing a semifictious account sponsored by Surgisphere Corporation, Chicago previous claiming it didn't work.

There are still 4 arms of the RECOVERY trial on going ...the anti-viral arm, an antiinflammatory monoclonal s and the recovery antiserum arm, that was a late add on

• Lopinavir-Ritonavir antiviral, commonly used to treat HIV
• Low-dose Dexamethasone (a type of steroid, which is used in a range of conditions typically to reduce inflammation)COMPLETED
• Hydroxychloroquine (related to an anti-malarial drug) COMPLETED
• Azithromycin (a commonly used antibiotic)
• Tocilizumab(an anti-inflammatory treatment given by injection) which is humanized monoclonal antibody against the interleukin-6 receptor used in RA
• Recovery antisera

 

[KooPeeArr]

That’s just ****ing embarrassing. But hold on, when we have the world beating app, we will be, um, world beating.

The app is no longer a priority, we won’t have a working version until ‘winter’. Of course, we won’t have it at all, it will be forgotten about. I reckon they worked out that most of us don’t trust the government or its technology and would never download it.

But it is ok, because we can’t compare ourselves to anyone else, because of differences in the way things are counted. Except all cause excess deaths over the five year rolling average of course, that’s a level playing field, doesn’t matter what is on the death certificate, it’s just counting corpses.

Excess deaths over five year average 2020:
UK - 64%
Germany - 4%
Belgium - they’ve had a mare haven’t they, we’ll be better than them - 37%
Sweden - they didn’t even lock down, the twats - 24%

Why aren’t people more angry? Apathy, ignorance, I’m alright Jack selfishness? I haven’t listened to or watched an entire newscast for about a month, it’s too painful to be continually lied to. Turns out the only successful bit of the strategy was to ‘protect the NHS’. Unfortunately this just enabled ****ers behind a lectern to crow that the NHS hadn’t collapsed, there were empty intensive care beds. It probably led to more COVID and ‘all cause’ deaths than a strategy focussed on saving lives would have. We’ll be counting these excess deaths for years, all those who didn’t get their cancer or heart disease diagnosed or treated. Of course this is before the mental illness and poverty driven by the economic collapse is factored in.

Might as well lift all of the formal restrictions now, people who want to socially distance and wash their hands can still do it, the others can rescue the economy by shopping and drinking, which it is now apparent is the bedrock of what this country is really ‘world beating’ at. And if you can join a scrum to get into Primark or Nike, you can ****ing go to work with the same level of distancing and send your kids to school. If there is a second wave it is inevitable that it will be worse here and handled more ineptly than anywhere else, so we might as well just brace ourselves and think of England. Lube up, suckers.

Spot on.

You did miss the part where you can only apparently get coronavirus from someone who knows your name and contact details so there is no need for a ****ing app.

Fear not from being coughed over by strangers in ever more socially enclosed spaces.

This is a ****ing criminal mismanagement of a situation but an A+ propaganda exercise.

 

[qprbeth]

"You did miss the part where you can only apparently get coronavirus from someone who knows your name and contact details so there is no need for a ****ing app."

Never knew that....thank you

 

[KooPeeArr]

"You did miss the part where you can only apparently get coronavirus from someone who knows your name and contact details so there is no need for a ****ing app."

Never knew that....thank you

I assume it's The Science.

 

[sb_73]

I assume it's The Science.

Well that’s it. All along I’ve forgotten to capitalise The Science, thus ****ing everything up for everyone.

My bad, soz.

Apps back! But not until autumn (I love the way we do things by season rather than specific date nowadays, it’s beautifully medieval, as the country will soon be also). Scrapped the current one to go with the Apple/Google more secure/private model, though it won’t actually be used for track and trace (presumably because the app free version of that is already world beating), just for recording symptoms and asking for a test. Which you can already do by calling 111, your GP or via the non government affiliated COVID-19 app that over 3 million of us are already using.

If I didn’t treasure what remains of my brain so much I’d be smashing my head against the stone turrets of Warwick Castle, in preparation for our return to the dark ages.

FFS.

 

[Star of David Bardsley]

But hold on, when we have the world beating app, we will be, um, world beating.

The app is no longer a priority, we won’t have a working version until ‘winter’. Of course, we won’t have it at all, it will be forgotten about.

But it is ok, because we can’t compare ourselves to anyone else, because of differences in the way things are counted. Except all cause excess deaths over the five year rolling average of course, that’s a level playing field, doesn’t matter what is on the death certificate.

Excess deaths over five year average 2020:
UK - 64%
Germany - 4%
Belgium - they’ve had a mare haven’t they, we’ll be better than them - 37%
Sweden - they didn’t even lock down, the twats - 24%

Why aren’t people more angry? Apathy, ignorance, I’m alright Jack selfishness? I haven’t listened to or watched an entire newscast for about a month, it’s too painful to be continually lied to.

Might as well lift all of the formal restrictions now, people who want to socially distance and wash their hands can still do it, the others can rescue the economy by shopping and drinking, which it is now apparent is the bedrock of what this country is really ‘world beating’ at. And if you can join a scrum to get into Primark or Nike, you can ****ing go to work with the same level of distancing.

I have to say I’ve lost interest and my views on this government would be considered radical given I think the lot of them should be publicly flogged and hanged for this. Maybe that’s the point- just long it out until all the incompetence, corruption and death can be buried under a mountain of Brexit.

 

[KooPeeArr]

Well that’s it. All along I’ve forgotten to capitalise The Science, thus ****ing everything up for everyone.

My bad, soz.

You've just given me an idea for the next slogan.

UPPER CASE, lower cases, save lives.

I can imagine the advert - "By UPPER CASE, we mean staying alert which means staying at home unless you have a necessity to shop at Primark (but spend lots please)."

 

[sb_73]

I have to say I’ve lost interest and my views on this government would be considered radical given I think the lot of them should be publicly flogged and hanged for this. Maybe that’s the point- just long it out until all the incompetence, corruption and death can be buried under a mountain of Brexit.

There will be a reckoning. Even if it’s just me wielding a pointed stick down the Conservative Association.

I’d been seeing it the other way round - the consequences of the now inevitable no deal Brexit will be buried under the COVID 19 economic collapse, to the delight of those who profit from both. Vermin.

 

[pompeymeowth]

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Fratton faithful behind him.

 

[pompeymeowth]

There will be a reckoning. Even if it’s just me wielding a pointed stick down the Conservative Association.

I’d been seeing it the other way round - the consequences of the now inevitable no deal Brexit will be buried under the COVID 19 economic collapse, to the delight of those who profit from both. Vermin.

Rees-Mogg?

 

[kiwiqpr]

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[sb_73]

Anybody tried accessing any non COVID, non blue light health care recently? It’s a ****ing nightmare, round my way anyway.

Had it confirmed from a GP (not one of my friendly neighbours, our actual GP) that the NHS is definitively not open for business. And in her words, it’s a disgrace. Only option to get a quick x-ray for a sprained (probably, slim chance of a small break hence X-ray) (wife) on the NHS round here is to wait until July and travel 20 miles rather than 2, because the local hospital is ‘closed’ and they have broken the machine anyway. Or to go to A&E, for something that the GP has already referred, which is mysteriously still open. All to do with our local hospital being designated a COVID centre, which means it is essentially empty now, with waiting lists building.

There is another NHS related thing that I am quietly furious about, but not COVID related, so I’ll quietly simmer on that.

 

[bobmid]

Anybody tried accessing any non COVID, non blue light health care recently? It’s a ****ing nightmare, round my way anyway.

Had it confirmed from a GP (not one of my friendly neighbours, our actual GP) that the NHS is definitively not open for business. And in her words, it’s a disgrace. Only option to get a quick x-ray for a sprained (probably, slim chance of a small break hence X-ray) (wife) on the NHS round here is to wait until July and travel 20 miles rather than 2, because the local hospital is ‘closed’ and they have broken the machine anyway. Or to go to A&E, for something that the GP has already referred, which is mysteriously still open. All to do with our local hospital being designated a COVID centre, which means it is essentially empty now, with waiting lists building.

There is another NHS related thing that I am quietly furious about, but not COVID related, so I’ll quietly simmer on that.

Yep, my son injured his foot last friday. Looks like 2 broken toes and maybe the metatarsal. Went to local A&E. Not allowed in but a note on the door said ring this number. We rang and were told to wait outside and someone would ring us back. 55 minutes later somebody rang ( a nurse I think) and asked my wife to diagnose his injury and to go home! No xray, not even allowed in the hospital nevermind seeing someone! ****ing shambles really

 

[sb_73]

Yep, my son injured his foot last friday. Looks like 2 broken toes and maybe the metatarsal. Went to local A&E. Not allowed in but a note on the door said ring this number. We rang and were told to wait outside and someone would ring us back. 55 minutes later somebody rang ( a nurse I think) and asked my wife to diagnose his injury and to go home! No xray, not even allowed in the hospital nevermind seeing someone! ****ing shambles really

A reluctant like. Your lad sounds like he is is worse nick than my wife, who I’m pretty sure has a bad sprain. This is a ****ing farce. Did have a chat with my GP neighbour, who said on one hand he’s not seeing lots of the time wasters he used to, but is equally convinced that lots of serious illnesses are being missed. Also there is huge variation between practices - he uses video for consultations whenever the patient has the tech, our practice (we can’t go to his practice or our other GP neighbour’s practice because we drink with them, it wouldn’t seem right) forces you to fill in a form online (great for the aged) and run the gauntlet of trial by receptionist before the off chance of a telephone chat with a GP (who to be fair was at least honest).

can’t your GP refer the lad for an X-ray?

 

[KooPeeArr]

Anybody tried accessing any non COVID, non blue light health care recently? It’s a ****ing nightmare, round my way anyway.

Had it confirmed from a GP (not one of my friendly neighbours, our actual GP) that the NHS is definitively not open for business. And in her words, it’s a disgrace. Only option to get a quick x-ray for a sprained (probably, slim chance of a small break hence X-ray) (wife) on the NHS round here is to wait until July and travel 20 miles rather than 2, because the local hospital is ‘closed’ and they have broken the machine anyway. Or to go to A&E, for something that the GP has already referred, which is mysteriously still open. All to do with our local hospital being designated a COVID centre, which means it is essentially empty now, with waiting lists building.

There is another NHS related thing that I am quietly furious about, but not COVID related, so I’ll quietly simmer on that.

My wife's had an asthma review over the phone which was mostly ineffective (but that's no real issue because her asthma is fairly mild).

She is still waiting for a referral date to the ENT for the lump in her nose which is now a few months old, we're struggling to get through to speak to a GP about HRT (perimenopause may be responsible for the ectopic heartbeats and tightness in chest and throat that have been ongoing for a year) and can't get confirmation on what happens with the thyroid review.

Her GP is apparently really busy but they have a very effective stone wall approach to keeping people from getting help.

My GP, which is sadly a bit further away, is wonderful but I've only had 2 appointments, a turning 40 health check and an initial health check in 18 years.

Probably well off topic but felt like a moan after my missus tried to speak to someone today and got told to try again Tuesday (which will probably be another instruction to try again another day).

 

[sb_73]

My wife's had an asthma review over the phone which was mostly ineffective (but that's no real issue because her asthma is fairly mild).

She is still waiting for a referral date to the ENT for the lump in her nose which is now a few months old, we're struggling to get through to speak to a GP about HRT (perimenopause may be responsible for the ectopic heartbeats and tightness in chest and throat that have been ongoing for a year) and can't get confirmation on what happens with the thyroid review.

Her GP is apparently really busy but they have a very effective stone wall approach to keeping people from getting help.

My GP, which is sadly a bit further away, is wonderful but I've only had 2 appointments, a turning 40 health check and an initial health check in 18 years.

Probably well off topic but felt like a moan after my missus tried to speak to someone today and got told to try again Tuesday (which will probably be another instruction to try again another day).

No, it’s on topic, this is a virus (non) management side effect. I am sure that virtual consultations can work, but not if the health care professional hasn’t been properly trained to do them, which of course very few have.

 

[bobmid]

A reluctant like. Your lad sounds like he is is worse nick than my wife, who I’m pretty sure has a bad sprain. This is a ****ing farce. Did have a chat with my GP neighbour, who said on one hand he’s not seeing lots of the time wasters he used to, but is equally convinced that lots of serious illnesses are being missed. Also there is huge variation between practices - he uses video for consultations whenever the patient has the tech, our practice (we can’t go to his practice or our other GP neighbour’s practice because we drink with them, it wouldn’t seem right) forces you to fill in a form online (great for the aged) and run the gauntlet of trial by receptionist before the off chance of a telephone chat with a GP (who to be fair was at least honest).

can’t your GP refer the lad for an X-ray?

She rand the gp on tuesday this week as hes in a bit of pain. I know they dont do anything for broken toes but we are worried that it may be his metatarsal aswell. The advice was to circle the bruise with a felt tip and see if it gets worse over a few days!

 

[KooPeeArr]

She rand the gp on tuesday this week as hes in a bit of pain. I know they dont do anything for broken toes but we are worried that it may be his metatarsal aswell. The advice was to circle the bruise with a felt tip and see if it gets worse over a few days!

That's shocking. If it is broken (hopefully not) I hope it's all in place.

What would they do next - advise wrapping it in elastic bands and covering it in post it notes?

He just needs an xray FFS.

 

[bobmid]

That's shocking. If it is broken (hopefully not) I hope it's all in place.

What would they do next - advise wrapping it in elastic bands and covering it in post it notes?

He just needs an xray FFS.

Tell me about it.

 

[Staines R's]

You are right...and there was nothing "special" as far as I know about the regime under the RECOVERY trial. But you know how clinical trials work, compare and contrast strictly under very defined conditions.

But yes, steroids are given for all forms of cytokine storms (sepsis, peritonitis) but there is now a clear rationale for using it....but not for hydroxychloroquine. That arm has now been ceased, as full numbers have been recruited, and without much effect. It is a shame that science disgraced itself by writing and publishing a semifictious account sponsored by Surgisphere Corporation, Chicago previous claiming it didn't work.

There are still 4 arms of the RECOVERY trial on going ...the anti-viral arm, an antiinflammatory monoclonal s and the recovery antiserum arm, that was a late add on

• Lopinavir-Ritonavir antiviral, commonly used to treat HIV
• Low-dose Dexamethasone (a type of steroid, which is used in a range of conditions typically to reduce inflammation)COMPLETED
• Hydroxychloroquine (related to an anti-malarial drug) COMPLETED
• Azithromycin (a commonly used antibiotic)
• Tocilizumab(an anti-inflammatory treatment given by injection) which is humanized monoclonal antibody against the interleukin-6 receptor used in RA
• Recovery antisera

We give Dexamethasone as routine to children with severe croup......amazing how it works so quickly and efficiently.