Off Topic The Politics Thread

[Staines R's]

Oh ok, I get your point. I am not involved at all with any of the groups of who you described, more things like anti weapons trade, equality groups, a few high jinks, more likely a sit in, maybe minor disruption, never violent and never confrontation, like I've said we actively seek intelligence to avoid any sort of violent confrontation

Ah ok, I’ll be honest Wills, and I promise I’m not trying to start a row with you, but I have never heard of your type being a target for right wing thugs......Venue and private security...absolutely...but a target for the right wing fash ?? Really ?

 

[ELLERS]

like I've said we actively seek intelligence to avoid any sort of violent confrontation

So why take 'protection'?

 

[Willhoops]

You mentioned Antifa Wills.....I came back at your point with a point of my own (which you yourself clarified for me)

I can’t clarify, agree or disagree with your last paragraph ‘cos I don’t quite get what your saying.
Are you supporting the actions and deeds done under the umbrella of ‘Antifa’ ?

What I'm saying is that just because a few dickheads say they are Antifa or anti fascist they are not representative of the majority who consider themselves Antifa or anti fascist.

What I was rather clumsily saying is that if you are saying these people represent people who identify themselves as anti fascist, you'd then have to associate the actions of certain 'patriot groups' and what they do, with anyone who considers themselves patriotic. Are we calling for people on here who consider themselves patriotic to condemn every time a racist attack happens by someone who claims to be a patriot, suggesting that all patriot groups are violent racists?

 

[Sooperhoop]

Interesting to note that now the spotlight has been shone on the BLM movement they have suddenly had a swift change of agenda, like any of these groups scratch the surface and you find the usual motives are not far away...

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[Willhoops]

Ah ok, I’ll be honest Wills, and I promise I’m not trying to start a row with you, but I have never heard of your type being a target for right wing thugs......Venue and private security...absolutely...but a target for the right wing fash ?? Really ?

Well it's more groups looking for fights than anything, in a similar way that people would attach themselves to football clubs and their firms. I'm not suggesting it happens all the time but it does happen, I've been at a couple where there has been a bit of a stand off, I have also been made aware of the results of other attacks.

 

[Staines R's]

What I'm saying is that just because a few dickheads say they are Antifa or anti fascist they are not representative of the majority who consider themselves Antifa or anti fascist.

What I was rather clumsily saying is that if you are saying these people represent people who identify themselves as anti fascist, you'd then have to associate the actions of certain 'patriot groups' and what they do, with anyone who considers themselves patriotic. Are we calling for people on here who consider themselves patriotic to condemn every time a racist attack happens by someone who claims to be a patriot, suggesting that all patriot groups are violent racists?

Fair point Wills......

 

[Staines R's]

Well it's more groups looking for fights than anything, in a similar way that people would attach themselves to football clubs and their firms. I'm not suggesting it happens all the time but it does happen, I've been at a couple where there has been a bit of a stand off, I have also been made aware of the results of other attacks.

Very strange mate, I know people involved on both sides and I’ve never heard of it.....more militant protests absolutely, and in the past the ‘right’ were attacking more diverse targets....but I’d been led to believe that sort of stuff has stopped for a good while now.....When was the last time you or your group were attacked ? I’ll look it up

 

[Willhoops]

So why take 'protection'?

Are you seriously trying to take the piss?

You say you go to these marches peacefully (and it seems you belong to groups) so why would you need to protect yourself? Just curious?
It Seems a bit strange to carry obviously some sort of protection to a march, doesn't it? I have been to many away games where there has been trouble but normally it's the ones looking for it that find it? I have never taken something for protection. I have been on a huge number of protests all pretty much peaceful, in recent years protests have become targets from elements of society, we do all we can to be vigilant both beforehand and during protests so we can avoid these groups. Other than stopping protesting, which isn't something we should have to do, there is no way to totally avoid these ****s. So if you had a group telling you that they are going to beat you and then rape your mrs, if you had seen the results of other incidents where they had attacked kids, women, victimised groups who had no desire to engage with them you wouldn't want to protect yourself? Really? I'm calling bullshit on that.

I'd say I've answered that quite clearly, you are clearly on the wind up or looking for an angle to push an agenda.

 

[ELLERS]

Interesting to note that now the spotlight has been shone on the BLM movement they have suddenly had a swift change of agenda, like any of these groups scratch the surface and you find the usual motives are not far away...

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It's probably just a few who infiltrate these peaceful groups?

 

[ELLERS]

Are you seriously trying to take the piss?

You say you go to these marches peacefully (and it seems you belong to groups) so why would you need to protect yourself? Just curious?
It Seems a bit strange to carry obviously some sort of protection to a march, doesn't it? I have been to many away games where there has been trouble but normally it's the ones looking for it that find it? I have never taken something for protection. I have been on a huge number of protests all pretty much peaceful, in recent years protests have become targets from elements of society, we do all we can to be vigilant both beforehand and during protests so we can avoid these groups. Other than stopping protesting, which isn't something we should have to do, there is no way to totally avoid these ****s. So if you had a group telling you that they are going to beat you and then rape your mrs, if you had seen the results of other incidents where they had attacked kids, women, victimised groups who had no desire to engage with them you wouldn't want to protect yourself? Really? I'm calling bullshit on that.

I'd say I've answered that quite clearly, you are clearly on the wind up or looking for an angle to push an agenda.

mmm I agree I saw a load knock a policewoman off a horse. I also saw 3 men hitting a policewoman from behind. Such real brave peaceful protesters... still it's probably the rotten apples that infiltrate these groups? Maybe the 'risk assessments' need reviewing?

 

[Willhoops]

Very strange mate, I know people involved on both sides and I’ve never heard of it.....more militant protests absolutely, and in the past the ‘right’ were attacking more diverse targets....but I’d been led to believe that sort of stuff has stopped for a good while now.....When was the last time you or your group were attacked ? I’ll look it up

I'd agree that it does happen and is not exclusive to those from the right wing that's for sure. I have never personally been in a confrontation that has resulted in police action. A few years back we had a few guys attacked in London on an anti weapons trade protest. Think it would be September 15

 

[Willhoops]

mmm I agree I saw a load knock a policewoman off a horse. I also saw 3 men hitting a policewoman from behind. Such real brave peaceful protesters... still it's probably the rotten apples that infiltrate these groups? Maybe the 'risk assessments' need reviewing?

You are ****ing impossible I can answer something absolutely reasonably and you twist, misrepresent and ignore anything that doesn't fit your agenda.

Right one last try. The majority of protesters were peaceful, who said they were anything to do with groups?

The risk assessments were done on protests and marches I've attended and groups I have been involved with, I was not involved in this one, nor the groups I refer to. Why do you have to try and make it all so very personal?

Do you consider yourself a patriot?

 

[Staines R's]

I'd agree that it does happen and is not exclusive to those from the right wing that's for sure. I have never personally been in a confrontation that has resulted in police action. A few years back we had a few guys attacked in London on an anti weapons trade protest. Think it would be September 15

What year ? And where abouts in London ?
Genuinely interested as I thought all that had died out

 

[Willhoops]

What year ? And where abouts in London ?
Genuinely interested as I thought all that had died out

2015 it was close to the docklands, if it was reported much, I don't know, it was just a few lads who got a kicking. I think what you are describing has become less and less I don't involve myself with the more extreme groups so couldn't comment with any knowledge.

 

[ELLERS]

I'm all these risk assessments. Maybe they should do some at HQ so we can get a few fans back for the games.

 

[Willhoops]

I'm all these risk assessments. Maybe they should do some at HQ so we can get a few fans back for the games.

Do you consider yourself a patriot?

 

[ELLERS]

Do you consider yourself a patriot?

I will do a risk assessment and get back to you.

 

[Staines R's]

Do you consider yourself a patriot?

Have you read a book called ‘The Progressive Patriot’ by Billy Bragg ??
Worth a read Wills.

 

[Willhoops]

I will do a risk assessment and get back to you.

As long as you answer the question, you know the question, do you consider yourself a patriot, we all you know you won't as then I could ask you to explain the violent actions carried out by those who consider themselves patriots, and ask you to condemn each and everyone of them. You know in the exact same way in which you have to me.

Actually don't bother, you've shown what you are like

Shame you were doing ok, reasonable to discuss things with, but these last couple of days you've reverted back. It's pretty clear to anyone who reads this

 

[Willhoops]

Have you read a book called ‘The Progressive Patriot’ by Billy Bragg ??
Worth a read Wills.

I'll have to look it up, do like Billy Bragg. I think you know I wasn't trying to have a go at patriotism, just do an Ellers to Ellers but he slipped away from that like an... oh well you know what I mean