Bruce IN or OUT?

[Fox Mulder]

Oot

defo needs to go but it wont happen until were in deep **** next season.. until his luck runs out and hes had more of the **** replace other players our performances are irrelevant. he has 31 points we might be ok and he will therefore be staying and rightly so i guess

 

[Somebodys pinched my sombrero]

He’s here. He is who we’ve got. He’s no the best we could hope for but support him while he’s here. ****ing moaning fans we’ve got ffs. Same after every defeat.

 

[Fox Mulder]

He’s here. He is who we’ve got. He’s no the best we could hope for but support him while he’s here. ****ing moaning fans we’ve got ffs. Same after every defeat.

tbf im like that consistently win lose or draw

 

[Roland Deschain]

The critical thing for me about why Bruce should go is how plainly stupid he is. We are trying to play with wing backs AND wingers tracking back, which makes no ****ing sense at all.

Liverpool/Leicester have evolved into a model that uses wing-backs in a back four. It's how Arteta is trying to get Arsenal to play, hence the very attacking fullbacks. This is just the modern way to do it, but wing backs (certainly in Steve's world) are employed in a back 5. Now we take it to another level of stupidity by having wide players AND wing backs. That means we have two players on either side often occupying the same position. As we drop deep, and Almiron/Max are expected to defend, we then end up with a flat back FIVE. No team in Britain plays with a flat back five, except us.

Bringing Lazaro/Rose in does make some sense, when they're ready, fit and good enough. But that should then evolve the formation significantly away from 5-4-1 by instantly bringing the wide players in-field and off the flanks. But that isn't happening. What further complicates matters is Bruce plays Max/Almiron on their weaker foot. So we then end up with both wide players wanting to cut in rather than provide actual crosses, but there's TWO either side anyway which means we're TWO short in the middle. There's no AM or second striker. We either need to go wing backs and keep 3 CB's, or go more full back and play four at the back.

We've got the players. Nobody can tell me we don't. Bruce is absolutely full of it talking about "they play a certain way" - SEVEN of the team yesterday haven't been here long enough, so that doesn't cut it. For me, it seems like he's got no idea what to do and is just a blamer. Very similar to McLaren, who'd always start off saying "I don't want to make excuses, but....".

 

[Warmir Pouchov]

I'd vote out. Not because he is doing a bad job, but just because I'd want more than our current chairman and more than our current manager for our club. Bruce has done a solid job, eerily similar to Mr Benitez. I'd imagine they will probably manage a similar return.

However in an ideal world I'd want to see a Newcastle playing a more modern attacking style, based on high pressing and retaining possession. I'd love a Pochettino type manager. Bruce like Benitez has a set way of garnering the number of points required to survive. Defensive counter attack is an acceptable tactical approach so regardless of the watchability, Benitez and Bruce would be within their rights to suggest they simply get the job done based on the tools they are afforded.

If the question is would you change Bruce if Ashley continues as chairman and there is little change to our transfer policy, I'm not sure there is much point. Although I'm still of the mind that you don't NEED to play defensive counter attack to stay up in the PL. However you would need enough money to have flexibility to change the make up of the squad to change the style of play. I don't see Ashley ever affording that.

 

[Roland Deschain]

I'd vote out. Not because he is doing a bad job, but just because I'd want more than our current chairman and more than our current manager for our club. Bruce has done a solid job, eerily similar to Mr Benitez. I'd imagine they will probably manage a similar return.

However in an ideal world I'd want to see a Newcastle playing a more modern attacking style, based on high pressing and retaining possession. I'd love a Pochettino type manager. Bruce like Benitez has a set way of garnering the number of points required to survive. Defensive counter attack is an acceptable tactical approach so regardless of the watchability, Benitez and Bruce would be within their rights to suggest they simply get the job done based on the tools they are afforded.

If the question is would you change Bruce if Ashley continues as chairman and there is little change to our transfer policy, I'm not sure there is much point. Although I'm still of the mind that you don't NEED to play defensive counter attack to stay up in the PL. However you would need enough money to have flexibility to change the make up of the squad to change the style of play. I don't see Ashley ever affording that.

Pouchy, we don't even counter-attack. We always have two players wide, defending, which leaves us so short in the central attacking positions it's impossible to counter at all. 9 at the back isn't even a tactic. Any club can stick 9 players in defence and block most teams out.

We looked far better further up the pitch attacking Arsenal, but again had Joelinton as a focal point and nobody near him, centrally. Longstaff and Bentaleb hang far too far back, often in nothing positions - too far back to produce a killer pass, too far forward to defend effectively. You need a player who can sit, read the play and clean up. We have one - Hayden - except in true Brucie fashion, he's never in his best position. He's now a ****ing RWB, it would seem. If Hayden sat more, you could allow the midfield and even Schar more freedom, let the players drift across the back to fill gaps and allow the wing backs to move up, without having NO players centrally to benefit. It's one thing that Joelinton wasn't even in the box for Max's attack, but what's worse is there was not one player even close to that attacking phase. Not one.

It's just not much to say - right, we're going to keep wing backs, but remove wingers and play another midfielder - Hayden - to allow Longstaff to get forward, plus Almiron/Maximin as a front two, to stop long balls bombing up there. Just anything that's different. Joelinton's a passenger, so it's just 9 at the back with the occasional break if Almiron/Max can dribble past 5 players. The first half, there were phases of play, retained possession. Again the struggle was nothing in the middle, which is why Joelinton is an unmitigated disaster, but if there's no changes what's likely to happen? Rinse and repeat.

 

[Welshie]

Pouchy, we don't even counter-attack. We always have two players wide, defending, which leaves us so short in the central attacking positions it's impossible to counter at all. 9 at the back isn't even a tactic. Any club can stick 9 players in defence and block most teams out.

We looked far better further up the pitch attacking Arsenal, but again had Joelinton as a focal point and nobody near him, centrally. Longstaff and Bentaleb hang far too far back, often in nothing positions - too far back to produce a killer pass, too far forward to defend effectively. You need a player who can sit, read the play and clean up. We have one - Hayden - except in true Brucie fashion, he's never in his best position. He's now a ****ing RWB, it would seem. If Hayden sat more, you could allow the midfield and even Schar more freedom, let the players drift across the back to fill gaps and allow the wing backs to move up, without having NO players centrally to benefit. It's one thing that Joelinton wasn't even in the box for Max's attack, but what's worse is there was not one player even close to that attacking phase. Not one.

It's just not much to say - right, we're going to keep wing backs, but remove wingers and play another midfielder - Hayden - to allow Longstaff to get forward, plus Almiron/Maximin as a front two, to stop long balls bombing up there. Just anything that's different. Joelinton's a passenger, so it's just 9 at the back with the occasional break if Almiron/Max can dribble past 5 players. The first half, there were phases of play, retained possession. Again the struggle was nothing in the middle, which is why Joelinton is an unmitigated disaster, but if there's no changes what's likely to happen? Rinse and repeat.

Without a single bit of input from the current manager Newcastle over the past 3 seasons have been on a near striker purge.

We have sold strikers with little thought, signed poor replacements, loaned in players about as good as we sold with little chance of signing them.
Then whining pissants claim the current manager is a useless twat because we don't scurry around the edge of the opposition box smashing balls off target all game.

How can Bruce play an attacking style with no striker? With two wasteful wingers, with a midfield with only one consistent goal scorer in Jonjo. What did Bruce receive from the previous management? Goalscoring defenders. How do we score goals? Goalscoring defenders.

Your mystical formation porns and shifting a few players around like it's football manager will accomplish so little it's actually hysterical. We defend and we score from set pieces, it's all we can do. We need end of season to solve these problems.

I'd honestly say these protracted rants and raves after a defeat to Arsenal with the squad we have are a little embarrassing mate. You're expecting something that we can't provide. We tried open play in the 45 mins, we scuffed every chance. The mystical ASM tripped over a ball, Almiron wasn't even playing it seemed, Joelinton missed a sitter. They're not good enough.

Giving the 3 players who simply aren't good enough more responsibility is a waste of time.

And Hayden has played in that role most of this season, he has been a holding midfielder. He's not good enough, we sold Merino under the previous manager for no reason, at all. Hayden is not good enough as a CDM.

 

[Roland Deschain]

Without a single bit of input from the current manager Newcastle over the past 3 seasons have been on a near striker purge.

We have sold strikers with little thought, signed poor replacements, loaned in players about as good as we sold with little chance of signing them.
Then whining pissants claim the current manager is a useless twat because we don't scurry around the edge of the opposition box smashing balls off target all game.

How can Bruce play an attacking style with no striker? With two wasteful wingers, with a midfield with only one consistent goal scorer in Jonjo. What did Bruce receive from the previous management? Goalscoring defenders. How do we score goals? Goalscoring defenders.

Your mystical formation porns and shifting a few players around like it's football manager will accomplish so little it's actually hysterical. We defend and we score from set pieces, it's all we can do. We need end of season to solve these problems.

I'd honestly say these protracted rants and raves after a defeat to Arsenal with the squad we have are a little embarrassing mate. You're expecting something that we can't provide. We tried open play in the 45 mins, we scuffed every chance. The mystical ASM tripped over a ball, Almiron wasn't even playing it seemed, Joelinton missed a sitter. They're not good enough.

Giving the 3 players who simply aren't good enough more responsibility is a waste of time.

And Hayden has played in that role most of this season, he has been a holding midfielder. He's not good enough, we sold Merino under the previous manager for no reason, at all. Hayden is not good enough as a CDM.

Ah, silly me. You're right, let's just wait it out. I'm sure we'll sort everything THIS Summer.

 

[Magnet]

Without a single bit of input from the current manager Newcastle over the past 3 seasons have been on a near striker purge.

We have sold strikers with little thought, signed poor replacements, loaned in players about as good as we sold with little chance of signing them.
Then whining pissants claim the current manager is a useless twat because we don't scurry around the edge of the opposition box smashing balls off target all game.

How can Bruce play an attacking style with no striker? With two wasteful wingers, with a midfield with only one consistent goal scorer in Jonjo. What did Bruce receive from the previous management? Goalscoring defenders. How do we score goals? Goalscoring defenders.

Your mystical formation porns and shifting a few players around like it's football manager will accomplish so little it's actually hysterical. We defend and we score from set pieces, it's all we can do. We need end of season to solve these problems.

I'd honestly say these protracted rants and raves after a defeat to Arsenal with the squad we have are a little embarrassing mate. You're expecting something that we can't provide. We tried open play in the 45 mins, we scuffed every chance. The mystical ASM tripped over a ball, Almiron wasn't even playing it seemed, Joelinton missed a sitter. They're not good enough.

Giving the 3 players who simply aren't good enough more responsibility is a waste of time.

And Hayden has played in that role most of this season, he has been a holding midfielder. He's not good enough, we sold Merino under the previous manager for no reason, at all. Hayden is not good enough as a CDM.

Bruce has had 2 windows to address the striker position.

Merino was sold because he wanted to go and had a clause in his contract which enabled him to go.

Don’t get me wrong I’m not blaming Bruce for the mess of a Club we are. Only one man to blame and that’s Ashley.

 

[Welshie]

Ah, silly me. You're right, let's just wait it out. I'm sure we'll sort everything THIS Summer.

Lol what else do we do in football?

You're simply suggesting that we play a style of football that we do not have the players for. Once again, how can playing poor players in very key roles improve us?

Hayden being the most important role in our midfield, allowing CBs to push up field? That is a disaster, we will lose like this against Brighton if we played like that. What next?

People suggest playing Joe on the right like he did in Bundesliga. Beyond the difference of tactics between leagues, were the Bundesliga play a high line and wingers and strikers often burst through clean on goal - and in the prem MOST teams have consistently 6 or more back and waiting to defend. He's also just not good enough.

We can sit here and admonish the manager. But reality is he isn't to blame for the recruitment issues, the squad he inherited was very poor and he uses what resources he has. We should be thankful we aren't bottom of the league.

 

[Welshie]

Bruce has had 2 windows to address the striker position.

Merino was sold because he wanted to go and had a clause in his contract which enabled him to go.

Don’t get me wrong I’m not blaming Bruce for the mess of a Club we are. Only one man to blame and that’s Ashley.

That's were you're wrong. Those rights have been taken away from the manager, he has no say.

 

[Warmir Pouchov]

Pouchy, we don't even counter-attack. We always have two players wide, defending, which leaves us so short in the central attacking positions it's impossible to counter at all. 9 at the back isn't even a tactic. Any club can stick 9 players in defence and block most teams out.

We looked far better further up the pitch attacking Arsenal, but again had Joelinton as a focal point and nobody near him, centrally. Longstaff and Bentaleb hang far too far back, often in nothing positions - too far back to produce a killer pass, too far forward to defend effectively. You need a player who can sit, read the play and clean up. We have one - Hayden - except in true Brucie fashion, he's never in his best position. He's now a ****ing RWB, it would seem. If Hayden sat more, you could allow the midfield and even Schar more freedom, let the players drift across the back to fill gaps and allow the wing backs to move up, without having NO players centrally to benefit. It's one thing that Joelinton wasn't even in the box for Max's attack, but what's worse is there was not one player even close to that attacking phase. Not one.

It's just not much to say - right, we're going to keep wing backs, but remove wingers and play another midfielder - Hayden - to allow Longstaff to get forward, plus Almiron/Maximin as a front two, to stop long balls bombing up there. Just anything that's different. Joelinton's a passenger, so it's just 9 at the back with the occasional break if Almiron/Max can dribble past 5 players. The first half, there were phases of play, retained possession. Again the struggle was nothing in the middle, which is why Joelinton is an unmitigated disaster, but if there's no changes what's likely to happen? Rinse and repeat.

I think that is doing Bruce down a bit to be honest saying all we are doing is 9 at the back. When Rafa played this way, it was great tactics. When Bruce does it, they're just getting thrown on the pitch? Nah its horseshit for me personally. We play counter attack, I can't see how this season can be described. I think you're being overly negative. I fully understand it, this club tends to do that to most fans since this regime came in.

We played very well first half yesterday. That was partly down to Arsenal not flexing their muscles, but also improvements from Newcastle. Tactically there was a real effort to get us in possession further up the pitch. Rose and Lazaro were a massive part of that because they have mobility, but also both had a brain. Sadly both were blowing out their arse by half time which will happen when you haven't been playing regardless of the break.

I don't think putting Hayden into the midfield will make any difference. I fully understand why he has had to go into right back while Manquillo is unfit. Yedlin is a liability and not good enough. Bruce doesn't seem to fancy him at all and I can see why. I'd play Hayden right wing back before him. Simply put though, Hayden isn't good enough with the ball. Your ball winner needs to be able to play. Clearly Bruce sees Bentaleb growing into that role. Personally I don't see enough aggression in his play to make it viable. He is yet another like Longstaff, Shelvey, who will sit happily, pirouette , look for a worldie pass but never actually get the required pressure on the ball.

Despite the result yesterday, I thought there was a lot of good to take from the game. And plenty of learning. Many of the problems we have tactically are personnel problems and legacy of the style of play of the previous manager. That takes time and money to change. Time is a rare commodity in PL football, and money is something Ashley has but Newcastle don't.

 

[Welshie]

I think that is doing Bruce down a bit to be honest saying all we are doing is 9 at the back. When Rafa played this way, it was great tactics. When Bruce does it, they're just getting thrown on the pitch? Nah its horseshit for me personally. We play counter attack, I can't see how this season can be described. I think you're being overly negative. I fully understand it, this club tends to do that to most fans since this regime came in.

We played very well first half yesterday. That was partly down to Arsenal not flexing their muscles, but also improvements from Newcastle. Tactically there was a real effort to get us in possession further up the pitch. Rose and Lazaro were a massive part of that because they have mobility, but also both had a brain. Sadly both were blowing out their arse by half time which will happen when you haven't been playing regardless of the break.

I don't think putting Hayden into the midfield will make any difference. I fully understand why he has had to go into right back while Manquillo is unfit. Yedlin is a liability and not good enough. Bruce doesn't seem to fancy him at all and I can see why. I'd play Hayden right wing back before him. Simply put though, Hayden isn't good enough with the ball. Your ball winner needs to be able to play. Clearly Bruce sees Bentaleb growing into that role. Personally I don't see enough aggression in his play to make it viable. He is yet another like Longstaff, Shelvey, who will sit happily, pirouette , look for a worldie pass but never actually get the required pressure on the ball.

Despite the result yesterday, I thought there was a lot of good to take from the game. And plenty of learning. Many of the problems we have tactically are personnel problems and legacy of the style of play of the previous manager. That takes time and money to change. Time is a rare commodity in PL football, and money is something Ashley has but Newcastle don't.

this 100%

 

[Roland Deschain]

Lol what else do we do in football?

You're simply suggesting that we play a style of football that we do not have the players for. Once again, how can playing poor players in very key roles improve us?

Hayden being the most important role in our midfield, allowing CBs to push up field? That is a disaster, we will lose like this against Brighton if we played like that. What next?

People suggest playing Joe on the right like he did in Bundesliga. Beyond the difference of tactics between leagues, were the Bundesliga play a high line and wingers and strikers often burst through clean on goal - and in the prem MOST teams have consistently 6 or more back and waiting to defend. He's also just not good enough.

We can sit here and admonish the manager. But reality is he isn't to blame for the recruitment issues, the squad he inherited was very poor and he uses what resources he has. We should be thankful we aren't bottom of the league.

"Style" of play is in the hands of players. The role of players should change. My take:

- Drop Joelinton. He's ****.
- Play Hayden as a dedicated DM in a three man midfield. He's no Kante, but he's all we have.
- Stop playing wingers AND wingbacks. Wingers isn't working, put more bodies central and get Lazaro/Yedlin/Ritchie/Rose/Manq further up the pitch.
- Having a DM should allow wingbacks to get further forwards as the CB's have a bit of extra coverage.
- Move Max infield with freedom like a Maddison, alongside anyone from Allan, Sorensen, Almiron, Carroll, Murphy or Muto.

I'm just a bloke posting on a forum, mate. Bruce isn't going anywhere, Ashley isn't, Charnley isn't, so all I can do is offer up my take on what may or may not help. All I know is the flat back five isn't working at all. I'm not saying we can suddenly become Liverpool with some tweaks, but think with more bodies centrally we might be able to score a couple more.

And personally I hated a lot of Rafa's anti-football too. I just get really down on Bruce's comments. "They're used to playing a certain way". Er, what? Bentaleb, Rose, Lazaro, Joelinton, Maximin, Mongstaff weren't even playing for Rafa. Almiron, Slongstaff haven't exactly been drilled into 5-4-1 either. That's 8 players for whom that comment just doesn't really apply. I wish he'd stop the BS.

 

[Welshie]

"Style" of play is in the hands of players. The role of players should change. My take:

- Drop Joelinton. He's ****.
- Play Hayden as a dedicated DM in a three man midfield. He's no Kante, but he's all we have.
- Stop playing wingers AND wingbacks. Wingers isn't working, put more bodies central and get Lazaro/Yedlin/Ritchie/Rose/Manq further up the pitch.
- Having a DM should allow wingbacks to get further forwards as the CB's have a bit of extra coverage.
- Move Max infield with freedom like a Maddison, alongside anyone from Allan, Sorensen, Almiron, Carroll, Murphy or Muto.

I'm just a bloke posting on a forum, mate. Bruce isn't going anywhere, Ashley isn't, Charnley isn't, so all I can do is offer up my take on what may or may not help. All I know is the flat back five isn't working at all. I'm not saying we can suddenly become Liverpool with some tweaks, but think with more bodies centrally we might be able to score a couple more.

And personally I hated a lot of Rafa's anti-football too. I just get really down on Bruce's comments. "They're used to playing a certain way". Er, what? Bentaleb, Rose, Lazaro, Joelinton, Maximin, Mongstaff weren't even playing for Rafa. Almiron, Slongstaff haven't exactly been drilled into 5-4-1 either. That's 8 players for whom that comment just doesn't really apply. I wish he'd stop the BS.

Firstly, we cannot have Hayden in such a key role, he isn't good enough. If you play that style of midfield play, more people in the center you need more players willing to track back beyond Almiron, and then you need an atleast very decent DM to take control of the situation. Hayden is very poor, he would be the next lad the fans crucify for costing us goals.

The way we play has us sitting in mid table, it may go pear shaped from now on and we finish bottom three, but honestly we don't play like a relegation fodder side. Once again, this a knee jerk reaction to a poor game, our season has been perfectly admirable. If we go down then I am sure we will hear all the told you so's from the usual's, but simply put this squad is not good enough. And some of our players are far, far too injury prone, Carroll, Gayle, Lejeune, Shar come to mind instantly.

I'll wait to the end of this season and see where we finish, then if we don't sign up any decent players and we are still trotting out the usual ****e I will agree with everyone a change is needed.

 

[G4rdToonArmy]

What I don't get is how we can be sooo consistently poor yet we are told we don't have the players to change that at the moment.

**** the players - I'm 110% sure that if we switched to 4 at the back we'd not be able to do any worse than we currently are.

It's not the players who are un-coach-able its the manager who can't coach....

 

[Roland Deschain]

Firstly, we cannot have Hayden in such a key role, he isn't good enough. If you play that style of midfield play, more people in the center you need more players willing to track back beyond Almiron, and then you need an atleast very decent DM to take control of the situation. Hayden is very poor, he would be the next lad the fans crucify for costing us goals.

The way we play has us sitting in mid table, it may go pear shaped from now on and we finish bottom three, but honestly we don't play like a relegation fodder side. Once again, this a knee jerk reaction to a poor game, our season has been perfectly admirable. If we go down then I am sure we will hear all the told you so's from the usual's, but simply put this squad is not good enough. And some of our players are far, far too injury prone, Carroll, Gayle, Lejeune, Shar come to mind instantly.

I'll wait to the end of this season and see where we finish, then if we don't sign up any decent players and we are still trotting out the usual ****e I will agree with everyone a change is needed.

The last 10 games or so have been of an unfathomably low standard. Draws vs League One teams, new depths being plumbed even compared to Rafa's anti-football. 4-0 defeats twice in that time. How are you NOT seeing relegation form? In 2014/15, we had 32 points at the same stage - we needed a last game win vs West Ham to relegate Bruce's Hull. If we haven't picked up a point in another 3 or 4 matches, we will be around 16th/17th with still 8 to play. At what point do we accept relegation is very, very realistic.

Do I need remind you that Norwich beat Man City, Villa have beaten Wolves/Everton. You speak of some of our wins as though they're the benchmark, but how lucky were we vs Chelsea/Everton? Those two matches alone - if the points had been fairly distributed - would already see us back on 27 points. Fine margins, mate, but Bruce isn't a particularly lucky individual and his has already run out.

 

[Sharpe*]

Gents you're 13th.

Not too bad at all given the squad.

 

[Welshie]

The last 10 games or so have been of an unfathomably low standard. Draws vs League One teams, new depths being plumbed even compared to Rafa's anti-football. 4-0 defeats twice in that time. How are you NOT seeing relegation form? In 2014/15, we had 32 points at the same stage - we needed a last game win vs West Ham to relegate Bruce's Hull. If we haven't picked up a point in another 3 or 4 matches, we will be around 16th/17th with still 8 to play. At what point do we accept relegation is very, very realistic.

Do I need remind you that Norwich beat Man City, Villa have beaten Wolves/Everton. You speak of some of our wins as though they're the benchmark, but how lucky were we vs Chelsea/Everton? Those two matches alone - if the points had been fairly distributed - would already see us back on 27 points. Fine margins, mate, but Bruce isn't a particularly lucky individual and his has already run out.

I haven't mentioned any specific results at all. We draw when we should rightfully lose and we win when we should likely draw. As opposed to losing every single match.

That's it really. If we were in relegation form we would be plummeting towards the bottom end, we have barely moved all season.

If we lose our next four games, I'll accept we are in a relegation scrap. You got me

But avoiding relegation has always been the target, the accepted norm. Now we have had a decent run fellas like you are having mental breakdowns cos we play negatively. I don't know what to tell you, welcome to the season?

 

[Fox Mulder]

You must log in or register to see images

Gents you're 13th.

Not too bad at all given the squad.

watch us play every week and you would see beyond that. we are worse in every area of the game. stats aside if you watch it its obvious .

the next 3 games will be telling, but we really need bruce to change things because its an absolute mess..