SD has decided to sell!!

[Kittenmittons]

IMO it's crazy that FPP could end up lumbered with the club because Donald's made a complete mess of everything ...

... but lose it if it Donald gets it flying.

I don't believe that ever was, or is now, part of their masterplan.

They wouldn't 'lose it' if he got it flying though, they'd get exactly what they want. They'd own 20% of it, with an easy route to owning more at a good price, with a better understanding of the business, it's strengths, weaknesses etc. They would themselves gain (via their proxy on the board) a better feel for steps they may one day take, and challenges that arise when running a football club, without having any risk. It is a completely normal way of investing.

Very few people dive straight in with a majority stake in a business they know very little about running on a day-to-day level, in an industry they have little knowledge of. Sport is probably one of the few exceptions, but these people don't seem like they leave their business principles at the door, do they?

None of the rumours suggested that SD was trying hard to get FPP to buy us. Everything suggested that they were keen so not sure where your probable reality comes from. Also the 18-24 month loan seems very short term for so much effort.

At what point do you think it's better to listen to rumours than it is him literally saying that they never intended to buy us outright and didn't make a bid, which would be extraordinary claims to make if he knows they aren't true? There have been 50 rumours since the saga began, some of them have been proven completely wrong, some have been closer, but it's a pretty sure bet that most of them didn't start with Donald or Methven. Most start with someone lower down the chain or completely unrelated.

As for the 18-24 months thing, I'm not sure what you're getting at. At the end of that time (or before) they can convert the debt that Madrox has to them into equity in SAFC, a minority stake of say 20% (depends on valuation). At that stage, the intention would be to provide another round of funding at the next level that might achieve the target of getting into the premier league, for example, for an increased equity stake. So in 4 years time they could own 40% of us, and we could be headed upwards. They may then look at their options of assuming majority control.

None of it is a waste of time and the deal could work for everyone if it carried on, but it would be many years, if ever, before FPP were majority owners. This is exactly how people invest in businesses. The fact that most football club owners tend to be megalomaniac egotists who are doing it as a vanity project doesn't mean that's what we would have had.

 

[Smug in Boots]

They wouldn't 'lose it' if he got it flying though, they'd get exactly what they want. They'd own 20% of it, with an easy route to owning more at a good price, with a better understanding of the business, it's strengths, weaknesses etc. They would themselves gain (via their proxy on the board) a better feel for steps they may one day take, and challenges that arise when running a football club, without having any risk. It is a completely normal way of investing.

Very few people dive straight in with a majority stake in a business they know very little about running on a day-to-day level, in an industry they have little knowledge of. Sport is probably one of the few exceptions, but these people don't seem like they leave their business principles at the door, do they?



At what point do you think it's better to listen to rumours than it is him literally saying that they never intended to buy us outright and didn't make a bid, which would be extraordinary claims to make if he knows they aren't true? There have been 50 rumours since the saga began, some of them have been proven completely wrong, some have been closer, but it's a pretty sure bet that most of them didn't start with Donald or Methven. Most start with someone lower down the chain or completely unrelated.

As for the 18-24 months thing, I'm not sure what you're getting at. At the end of that time (or before) they can convert the debt that Madrox has to them into equity in SAFC, a minority stake of say 20% (depends on valuation). At that stage, the intention would be to provide another round of funding at the next level that might achieve the target of getting into the premier league, for example, for an increased equity stake. So in 4 years time they could own 40% of us, and we could be headed upwards. They may then look at their options of assuming majority control.

None of it is a waste of time and the deal could work for everyone if it carried on, but it would be many years, if ever, before FPP were majority owners. This is exactly how people invest in businesses. The fact that most football club owners tend to be megalomaniac egotists who are doing it as a vanity project doesn't mean that's what we would have had.

All Donald would have to do is pay them off.

All they'd get them would be a bit of interest which wouldn't even cover what they've already forked out.

 

[Kittenmittons]

All Donald would have to do is pay them off.

All they'd get them would be a bit of interest which wouldn't even cover what they've already forked out.

Donald could pay them off and say 'no thanks', but that would appear to be less likely than most outcomes and would signify that Donald somehow felt he could fund us into the PL without any help. How likely do you think that is? And ultimately, this is the only 'risk' that FPP have in the whole thing, that somehow Donald falls out of love with them as potential investors and they get every penny back. If they think that's a genuine likelihood, they probably wouldn't bother investing, or they'd have taken the more solid option of buying the minority stake outright.

No, Donald needs them and they know it. He knows it. Hell, even we know it.

I mean FPP have played a blinding deal here and got pretty much everything they wanted, but unless they've specified that they could opt to forego repayment (even if offered) for equity, and effectively take the minority stake against his wishes, then yeah, it's a loan that they have the option to convert, but he has the option to pay back. Just because it could happen doesn't mean that's what anyone wants to happen, but if the biggest risk they have is that they get every penny (plus some) back, and miss out on a bargain, then believe me, as investment deals go, that's basically as good as it gets.

 

[Nostradamoose]

I'm prepared to wait and see what happens

History suggests what SD says and what actually happens are two different things

The fact is Stew has to fork out over £9m to free himself of these conditions. Any outside offer would have to make this worthwhile.

Despite his patter I think he'll wait until the end of this season, see what happens then sell.

 

[Smug in Boots]

Donald could pay them off and say 'no thanks', but that would appear to be less likely than most outcomes and would signify that Donald somehow felt he could fund us into the PL without any help. How likely do you think that is? And ultimately, this is the only 'risk' that FPP have in the whole thing, that somehow Donald falls out of love with them as potential investors and they get every penny back. If they think that's a genuine likelihood, they probably wouldn't bother investing, or they'd have taken the more solid option of buying the minority stake outright.

No, Donald needs them and they know it. He knows it. Hell, even we know it.

I mean FPP have played a blinding deal here and got pretty much everything they wanted, but unless they've specified that they could opt to forego repayment (even if offered) for equity, and effectively take the minority stake against his wishes, then yeah, it's a loan that they have the option to convert, but he has the option to pay back. Just because it could happen doesn't mean that's what anyone wants to happen, but if the biggest risk they have is that they get every penny (plus some) back, and miss out on a bargain, then believe me, as investment deals go, that's basically as good as it gets.

He could simply line up different investment/buyer and they get nothing but a bit of interest.

 

[one gary owers]

...

 

[one gary owers]

I didn't say I'm super-rich, but I did think about asking them once upon a time, about a year ago when the finances of Donald became more clear. The reality is that they'd have no plan for it and wouldn't want to do it without having someone in place.

Like I said, that's why I kind of gauge FPP the same, they seem similar, especially also being from the US. If someone says they want to do 20%, that I'd basically your cue that they want someone else to manage something.

Anyway I've definitely said more than I normally would and I already regret it

FFS you haven't shut up since you made the above statement

 

[Nig]

Donald could pay them off and say 'no thanks', but that would appear to be less likely than most outcomes and would signify that Donald somehow felt he could fund us into the PL without any help. How likely do you think that is? And ultimately, this is the only 'risk' that FPP have in the whole thing, that somehow Donald falls out of love with them as potential investors and they get every penny back. If they think that's a genuine likelihood, they probably wouldn't bother investing, or they'd have taken the more solid option of buying the minority stake outright.

No, Donald needs them and they know it. He knows it. Hell, even we know it.

I mean FPP have played a blinding deal here and got pretty much everything they wanted, but unless they've specified that they could opt to forego repayment (even if offered) for equity, and effectively take the minority stake against his wishes, then yeah, it's a loan that they have the option to convert, but he has the option to pay back. Just because it could happen doesn't mean that's what anyone wants to happen, but if the biggest risk they have is that they get every penny (plus some) back, and miss out on a bargain, then believe me, as investment deals go, that's basically as good as it gets.

He always admitted he would need investment at some point in his quest to establish us back in the prem.
Whatever his motives, and i dont think he is the Dick Dastardly portrayed by some.
I thought the recent fan groups knee jerk reaction embarrassing and ill timed.

 

[Porterfield73]

He could simply line up different investment/buyer and they get nothing but a bit of interest.

this is how I see it , another investor stepping in before the start of next season.

 

[Kittenmittons]

He could simply line up different investment/buyer and they get nothing but a bit of interest.

You can't protect against every eventuality, there has to be some trust. I doubt either side in this has the ultimate motivation of forcing the other into a situation like that. Even if it's possible, you wouldn't forego a deal where you can't lose, just because the worst outcome is that you don't win to the degree you hope to if all goes well. It's massively stacked in their favor.

FFS you haven't shut up since you made the above statement

Another one for ignore

 

[worcestermakem]

FFS you haven't shut up since you made the above statement

Must get through a lot of keyboards by the amount of waffle put on here.

 

[one gary owers]

Must get through a lot of keyboards by the amount of waffle put on here.

LOL and he puts me on ignore

 

[one gary owers]

You can't protect against every eventuality, there has to be some trust. I doubt either side in this has the ultimate motivation of forcing the other into a situation like that. Even if it's possible, you wouldn't forego a deal where you can't lose, just because the worst outcome is that you don't win to the degree you hope to if all goes well. It's massively stacked in their favor.

Honestly its just become blah blah blah with you



Another one for ignore

 

[one gary owers]

You can't protect against every eventuality, there has to be some trust. I doubt either side in this has the ultimate motivation of forcing the other into a situation like that. Even if it's possible, you wouldn't forego a deal where you can't lose, just because the worst outcome is that you don't win to the degree you hope to if all goes well. It's massively stacked in their favor.



Another one for ignore

Just out of interest how many do you have on ignore

I have none just skip your posts

 

[worcestermakem]

LOL and he puts me on ignore

Just found out how to do it and the thread is half the length!

 

[one gary owers]

 

[Kittenmittons]

Aye some real diamond contributions there. This is the content people really want to read, you two bitching like a pair of owld women.

 

[HeatonMackem]

Hectic weekend so I've only just listened to SD on Total Sport. I've been fully behind SD but I have to admit, the contradictions are becoming too frequent and he's losing more credibility every time he goes on air. I think everything he has said and is saying now must be taken with a large pinch of salt.

In his defence though, imagine yourself in his position trying to get the best price for the club (just to break even) when FPP are offering £Xm less than he wants. He's not going to say that they are likely to take over, because he'll be admitting that he'll come close to their offer price. He also can't admit (although he has in the past) that they wanted to buy the club and made an offer - because of the non-disclosure agreement in place. He also doesn't want to put off other potential buyers who might come closer to his asking price by saying FPP are still interested (and could complete quickly).

He hasn't spent the £9m loan money but he has used it to replace the parachute payments, just means it is sat in the club's bank account (unspent) so that's not actually a contradiction. But it is quite misleading because it hasn't actually paid off what Madrox owed to the club (for the PPs) because it owed the club an extra £9m for the new shares issued, so he has confused people by mentioning the PPs.

The point about them investing in SD and not just the club is a harder one to explain given that before he said he hoped to stay on after they take over. He's effectively saying it's the fans fault if FPP don't takeover. Or is he trying to get the fans to back off?

I didn't like his comment about the burgers and queues though, as if all we care about is a pint at half time. I couldn't give a **** about that compared to results on the pitch.

Overall, I'm still hopeful that FPP will takeover, otherwise why bother with the loan.

 

[one gary owers]

LOL so you have not put me on ignore

Strange that you pull messages from days past when I do it I am supposedly put on ignore

I guess you are not telling truths again ( like when you said you were rich Then denied it )

Please just do as you said you would PUT ME ON IGNORE you waffler

 

[one gary owers]

Hectic weekend so I've only just listened to SD on Total Sport. I've been fully behind SD but I have to admit, the contradictions are becoming too frequent and he's losing more credibility every time he goes on air. I think everything he has said and is saying now must be taken with a large pinch of salt.

In his defence though, imagine yourself in his position trying to get the best price for the club (just to break even) when FPP are offering £Xm less than he wants. He's not going to say that they are likely to take over, because he'll be admitting that he'll come close to their offer price. He also can't admit (although he has in the past) that they wanted to buy the club and made an offer - because of the non-disclosure agreement in place. He also doesn't want to put off other potential buyers who might come closer to his asking price by saying FPP are still interested (and could complete quickly).

He hasn't spent the £9m loan money but he has used it to replace the parachute payments, just means it is sat in the club's bank account (unspent) so that's not actually a contradiction. But it is quite misleading because it hasn't actually paid off what Madrox owed to the club (for the PPs) because it owed the club an extra £9m for the new shares issued, so he has confused people by mentioning the PPs.

I agree with you they did to much work to just turn away now

The point about them investing in SD and not just the club is a harder one to explain given that before he said he hoped to stay on after they take over. He's effectively saying it's the fans fault if FPP don't takeover. Or is he trying to get the fans to back off?

I didn't like his comment about the burgers and queues though, as if all we care about is a pint at half time. I couldn't give a **** about that compared to results on the pitch.

Overall, I'm still hopeful that FPP will takeover, otherwise why bother with the loan.

Hectic weekend so I've only just listened to SD on Total Sport. I've been fully behind SD but I have to admit, the contradictions are becoming too frequent and he's losing more credibility every time he goes on air. I think everything he has said and is saying now must be taken with a large pinch of salt.

In his defence though, imagine yourself in his position trying to get the best price for the club (just to break even) when FPP are offering £Xm less than he wants. He's not going to say that they are likely to take over, because he'll be admitting that he'll come close to their offer price. He also can't admit (although he has in the past) that they wanted to buy the club and made an offer - because of the non-disclosure agreement in place. He also doesn't want to put off other potential buyers who might come closer to his asking price by saying FPP are still interested (and could complete quickly).

He hasn't spent the £9m loan money but he has used it to replace the parachute payments, just means it is sat in the club's bank account (unspent) so that's not actually a contradiction. But it is quite misleading because it hasn't actually paid off what Madrox owed to the club (for the PPs) because it owed the club an extra £9m for the new shares issued, so he has confused people by mentioning the PPs.

The point about them investing in SD and not just the club is a harder one to explain given that before he said he hoped to stay on after they take over. He's effectively saying it's the fans fault if FPP don't takeover. Or is he trying to get the fans to back off?

I didn't like his comment about the burgers and queues though, as if all we care about is a pint at half time. I couldn't give a **** about that compared to results on the pitch.

Overall, I'm still hopeful that FPP will takeover, otherwise why bother with the loan.

I agree with you they put too much time and money in just to back out now