General Erection 2019

[SIR_KENNY_KLOPP_KING]

The country is in more debt than ever because of the financial crisis of capitalism, not socialism.

Not because of capitalism. Because of greed.

Reality is we need a system that takes the good things from both left and right and gets buy in from all to deliver it over a long period of time, we’ll always have this issue.

 

[organic red]

Not because of capitalism. Because of greed.

Reality is we need a system that takes the good things from both left and right and gets buy in from all to deliver it over a long period of time, we’ll always have this issue.

Greed and capitalism go hand in hand.........dog eat dog, boom and bust and profit over people every time

 

[jaffaSlot]

Capitalism has an end point though, which is why things go bust. It is impossible to have increasing profits indefinitely. Then you have companies like Nestle, Mondelez, Unilever, CocaCola, Pepsi and so on, they own near enough everything that you buy and hoover up any smaller competition. They will get to a point where there is no more room to grow.

Problem is the w@nkers at the top will still walk away with their bonuses, but stock markets will crash and its those at the bottom who will suffer

 

[SIR_KENNY_KLOPP_KING]

Greed and capitalism go hand in hand.........dog eat dog, boom and bust and profit over people every time

Greed and MANKIND you mean? You never read animal farm then?

Just to be clear so this doesn’t turn into anything it shouldn’t, I’m saying that we need the best of both systems. Not one, or the other. We’ll never get there though because people just don’t like the idea of the rich getting richer....even when their investments mean that all get wealthier.

 

[terrifictraore]

Greed and MANKIND you mean? You never read animal farm then?

Just to be clear so this doesn’t turn into anything it shouldn’t, I’m saying that we need the best of both systems. Not one, or the other. We’ll never get there though because people just don’t like the idea of the rich getting richer....even when their investments mean that all get wealthier.

exactly this, human nature will always tend towards greed and efficiency( laziness). No system will ever work perfectly whilst mankind is flawed.

not happy with election result but blaming anything other than the tactics and policy of the Labour party is just plain denial

 

[saintanton]

Greed and MANKIND you mean? You never read animal farm then?

Just to be clear so this doesn’t turn into anything it shouldn’t, I’m saying that we need the best of both systems. Not one, or the other. We’ll never get there though because people just don’t like the idea of the rich getting richer....even when their investments mean that all get wealthier.

Try telling that to the 40m in the USA and 14m or so in the UK who are officially below the poverty line.
The trickle-down theory of economics is highly contentious, and in my view is an outright fallacy promoted by those who benefit from it in order to justify it to the rest.
This isn't about a simple envy of the rich, nor about preventing people from accumulating any wealth, it is about a fairer distribution of the wealth a society creates amongst the people who create it.

 

[THE FOOL]

Try telling that to the 40m in the USA and 14m or so in the UK who are officially below the poverty line.
The trickle-down theory of economics is highly contentious, and in my view is an outright fallacy promoted by those who benefit from it in order to justify it to the rest.
This isn't about a simple envy of the rich, nor about preventing people from accumulating any wealth, it is about a fairer distribution of the wealth a society creates amongst the people who create it.

I'll be honest here, I couldnt give a **** about trickle down , capitalist, socialist or ****ing alienist politics.

In a world where one person can afford to give away 100million pound and not blink, while down the street a person has no home, no food and chance is wrong. Plain and simple

You can argue till you black in the face about which political stance should be correct but while kids starve their us something wrong.

Simple ad that

 

[Red Hadron Collider]

Like I said earlier, too many people equate socialism with communism - this is like saying all right-wing governments are fascist.
Things aren't that black-and-white. As the posts below your comment point out, there are plenty of examples of socialist governments that function perfectly well.
I mentioned yesterday that my parents and I benefited enormously from a social awareness that swept Europe after World War II. Many other countries managed to hold on to that ideal (though there are repeated attempts by neo-Nazis to re-establish themselves), but ours was soon eroded due to an attachment to the anti-social, reactionary philosophy of the US. The influential right-wing section of our media constantly vilify and demonise anyone left of centre, labelling them either treacherous or incompetent.
Brexit will be a disaster - the constraints that EU membership has laid will be lost, and we will sell out to America and see all of their shockingly bad social policies finding their way here.
I feel no affinity with my government, they don't speak for me or the millions like me. I feel like a stranger in my own country.

Sadly this.

 

[SIR_KENNY_KLOPP_KING]

Try telling that to the 40m in the USA and 14m or so in the UK who are officially below the poverty line.
The trickle-down theory of economics is highly contentious, and in my view is an outright fallacy promoted by those who benefit from it in order to justify it to the rest.
This isn't about a simple envy of the rich, nor about preventing people from accumulating any wealth, it is about a fairer distribution of the wealth a society creates amongst the people who create it.

I'll be honest here, I couldnt give a **** about trickle down , capitalist, socialist or ****ing alienist politics.

In a world where one person can afford to give away 100million pound and not blink, while down the street a person has no home, no food and chance is wrong. Plain and simple

You can argue till you black in the face about which political stance should be correct but while kids starve their us something wrong.

Simple ad that

I agree with both . I think We just differ on with how to fix it....clearly the left and right ideologies that have been used for over a century don’t work. If we don’t try something new and address the issues, it will only get worse, unfortunately. Will leave it there lads

 

[terrifictraore]

Try telling that to the 40m in the USA and 14m or so in the UK who are officially below the poverty line.

The issue with this line of argument is that the "poverty line" is a relative social construct that will always have a section of society classed as below the poverty line no matter what their actual standard of living is.
Can't remember exact details of top of head but after the financial crisis when average earnings fell many people were lifted out of poverty because their income had remained the same.
in any financial system there will always be people who have more and any system that doesn't have that is just not sustainable.

 

[Solid Air]

The issue with this line of argument is that the "poverty line" is a relative social construct that will always have a section of society classed as below the poverty line no matter what their actual standard of living is.
Can't remember exact details of top of head but after the financial crisis when average earnings fell many people were lifted out of poverty because their income had remained the same.
in any financial system there will always be people who have more and any system that doesn't have that is just not sustainable.

On the same tack if you increase means tested benefits it increases the number in poverty as that is one indicator. However there is no doubt imo that real poverty is definitely on the rise most obviously in the number of rough sleepers i see on my morning walks with my lunatic mutt which is massively increased in recent years .

 

[ademuzzy]

On the same tack if you increase means tested benefits it increases the number in poverty as that is one indicator. However there is no doubt imo that real poverty is definitely on the rise most obviously in the number of rough sleepers i see on my morning walks with my lunatic mutt which is massively increased in recent years .

In my line of work I frequently deal with the homeless. It's a sad sight and I hope we can support them, however I dont necessarily think that most are homeless because they have lost their job. In my experience it's poor mental health and addiction which has brought them to that scenario. It's a proven fact that mental health and addiction go hand in hand. It's also proven that 60% of mental health starts from when you are a child. I don't want people to starve and I don't want people to suffer. I actually think think that if we can figure out new mental health treatments and ways in which to support people we would see a massive drop in:
Homelessness
Crime
Personality disorders
Food bank usage

You see all of those above are just a symptom of the issues people with poor m health go through. So throwing the most money at those things won't fix the problem.

I have been very fortunate to have been In two massively important public sector jobs. The first one was for 8 years and I switched to another public sector career 2 years ago. I can tell you now, this newly elected government will not fix this.

I'm gutted before the reality of the next 10 years for these people, it will be the same as it has always been. It also means for mine and any of your kids who go through issues with their mental health. They will not get the care in which they could have had.

My first career showed me that more mental health support needs to take place at primary school level and I believe each school should have more psychologists on School site to support our future generations. If you have not read about ACE's I strongly recommend you do. The idea that bad childhood = **** adult life is nothing groundbreaking, however their are key things within that research which are scary such as, the damage is done to children before the age of 5. It was widely believed before, that children didn't remember the things before the age of 5. This is why mental health is so important in schools and why we need to get a grip of it fast. If it costs more money now then so be it, but in the longer term it would benefit our economy.

My second career has shown me that unless that happens the future is bleak for our children who suffer from poor mental health. It has shown me that punative measures don't do anything and just gives the rest of the nation a break from said problem. For an average of 6 months at a time.

This, along with climate change, are our most important challenges we face. Neither of which this government will deal with.

 

[terrifictraore]

On the same tack if you increase means tested benefits it increases the number in poverty as that is one indicator. However there is no doubt imo that real poverty is definitely on the rise most obviously in the number of rough sleepers i see on my morning walks with my lunatic mutt which is massively increased in recent years .

Not sure if you live in Liverpool but for a while the city has had enough beds in shelters etc for everyone to get a bed. Vast majority of rough sleeping (especially prolonged) is due to substance abuse and/or mental health, the question of does poverty cause that addiction or mental health issue is a while other matter.

 

[ademuzzy]

Not sure if you live in Liverpool but for a while the city has had enough beds in shelters etc for everyone to get a bed. Vast majority of rough sleeping (especially prolonged) is due to substance abuse and/or mental health, the question of does poverty cause that addiction or mental health issue is a while other matter.

See above

 

[terrifictraore]

See above

Yeah seen your far more comprehensive post after I posted mine. Not sure any other party in this country would try to fix the issues though, Corbyn's claim of ending homelessness was just another of the list that is very likely unachievable.

 

[ademuzzy]

Yeah seen your far more comprehensive post after I posted mine. Not sure any other party in this country would try to fix the issues though, Corbyn's claim of ending homelessness was just another of the list that is very likely unachievable.

At least he would have tried and he would have been the most likely out of all the party leaders to have adapted and tweaked until he got it right. We'd be closer to a solution in the next few years than we will be under the newly elected. Unfortunately the majority people are seeing a different bigger picture than myself. I also think the bigger picture they are seeing is massively distorted.

My beliefs are based off my own experiences. Not from an office reading a news article online or a newspaper.

 

[Solid Air]

Not sure if you live in Liverpool but for a while the city has had enough beds in shelters etc for everyone to get a bed. Vast majority of rough sleeping (especially prolonged) is due to substance abuse and/or mental health, the question of does poverty cause that addiction or mental health issue is a while other matter.

nope don't live in the city but i'm prepared to stick my neck & say i'm fairly sure the rough sleepers i see are definitely in poverty .
So what is causing the sudden rise in rough sleeping if it isn't linked to poverty as addiction and mental health problems have been around for years.
i used to see One of the guys around but haven't seen since the floods just his ruined tent washed up against a tree

 

[ademuzzy]

nope don't live in the city but i'm prepared to stick my neck & say i'm fairly sure the rough sleepers i see are definitely in poverty .
So what is causing the sudden rise in rough sleeping if it isn't linked to poverty as addiction and mental health problems have been around for years.
i used to see One of the guys around but haven't seen since the floods just his ruined tent washed up against a tree

No one isn't saying it isn't poverty. Poverty is another symptom of poor mental health. The sudden rise is linked to:
People seeking a new life from another country
Mental health
People losing their jobs because they no longer exist and don't have the opportunity to re-train because of family circumstances.

Universal credit is truly horrendous.

In a nutshell I wasn't saying that people aren't there just because of a loss of jobs, I was saying the majority are their because of mental health.

 

[lfcpower]

There's plenty of people sleeping in tents and doorways around Liverpool city centre

 

[ademuzzy]

There's plenty of people sleeping in tents and doorways around Liverpool city centre

Same in Cardiff.