Match Day Thread Tottenham Hotspur v Liverpool

[Solid Air]

That is irrelevant....both players might have committed an offence. Mane might have tripped Aurier and Aurier might have kicked Mane. The usual criteria for that is who touched the ball last.

The usual criteria is that if you kick someone in the back of their legs it is a foul .

I do agree with you about your earlier point though about players getting free kicks by ignoring the ball and instead just sticking their leg in front of the opposition player to instigate contact however that is not what happened yesterday .

 

[Solid Air]

If Aurier was tackling Mane then I agree it was a clear foul. But if Mane was tackling Aurier then the foul was the other way. There is nothing in the Laws to help the referee decide as far as I can see.
I would not say it was a clear mistake but if Taylor had given a free kick to Spurs then I don't think VAR would have overturned it.
Taylor did a good job apart ftom stopping the match a minute early. Nothing added in for the substitution in added time.

 

[humanbeingincroydon]

Klopp rarely changes his XI unless forced too, sits top of the league by 6 points.
Poch changes his XI regularly and sits 11th, 16 (yes, 16!) points off of Liverpool.

What are you talking about? His twelfth man changes every week

 

[Dier Hard]

I thought it was a penalty, it was very similar to Lamela’s one a couple years ago, the attacking player quickly gets in front of the defender as they’re about to kick the ball in order to draw a foul. It’s a smart tactic, a dark art if you like but nonetheless if a player ends up kicking another player in the box it’s a penalty and that’s what van Dijk with Lamela and Aurier with Mane done.

As TCM said, I thought the ref had a pretty decent game. Couple of 50-50s that he could’ve let slide but in general he got the big calls right in my opinion.

 

[Roo]

If a professional player can't rest and recuperate in a 5-day break they're in the wrong job mate.

Pool never chose to rest a key player in today's game so why should we/ Poch?

The problems in the squad you speak of can be partly eradicated - if players don't wanna be here then to the U23s they go. I'd much rather see Foyth, KWP Tanganga, Skipp etc get minutes knowing Poch has done the right thing by dropping the wantaways than keep talking about how there's problems and it's hard for Poch, it's only hard because he's allowing it to be.

Sorry if it sounds like I'm digging you out mate but I just feel there's too many excuses (not just from you) for Poch's stupid management.

no need to apologize mate, I’m just playing devils advocate. I don’t disagree with anything you’re saying, just looking at it in another way.
I cant defend Poch over the timing of his subs, it’s been like it for so long I don’t even bother commenting on it any more.

But the squad situation is a difficult one.
it’s not Poch’s job to get rid of the unwanted/want away players. That’s down to Levy. And just like our shambolic recruitment over the last couple of years, we’ve also failed to appropriately get rid this summer.
It’s all well and good speaking of “culling” players and bringing through the youngsters, but the reality is we will not pick up the results we need by taking this drastic approach. Then we’ll have a new set of problems. The novelty and satisfaction of a “statement of intent” won’t last long, as the fans will ultimately turn on the manager/players/club when the results aren’t happening.

 

[Dier Hard]

no need to apologize mate, I’m just playing devils advocate. I don’t disagree with anything you’re saying, just looking at it in another way.
I cant defend porch over the timing of his subs, it’s been like it for so long I don’t even bother commenting on it any more.

But the squad situation is a difficult one.
it’s not Poch’s job to get rid of the unwanted/want away players. That’s down to Levy. And just like our shambolic recruitment over the last couple of years, we’ve also failed to appropriately get rid this summer.
It’s all well and good speaking of “culling” players and bringing through the youngsters, but the reality is we will not pick up the results we need by taking this drastic approach. Then we’ll have a new set of problems. The novelty and satisfaction of a “statement of intent” won’t last long, as the fans will ultimates turn on the manager/players/club when the results aren’t happening.

The problem is that you can’t force teams to buy players though. We accepted Watford’s bid for Rose but he rejected them. Far as I’m aware no one bid for Eriksen. We know about the £20m bid from Roma for Toby but when he had a £25m release clause it did feel like underhand tactics by Roma. If you can’t sell a player then cast them aside, eventually someone will make a bid and the player will be desperate to get out.

Agree that youth won’t get the desired results but neither is the current process of picking all the wantaways and so when it comes to picking a lesser of two evils I’d rather see the young players given chances and likely failing to produce despite best efforts rather than see the players who couldn’t give a toss deliver the same results.

For me Poch has just completely lost it. I admire and appreciate what he’s done in the past but he genuinely seems clueless right now and that is having an extremely negative effect on this team. Sooner he goes the better in my opinion, we need a fresh approach and a manager with a pair of bollocks. To be this far behind already is appalling and it doesn’t look like changing under this manager.

 

[humanbeingincroydon]

The pass map confirms what we all suspected but weren't entirely sure could be correct: yesterday Christian Eriksen was a black hole where, if the ball ventured too close, it would vanish into the jaws of infinity (or, you know, the feet of someone wearing a red shirt)

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[Dier Hard]

Tanguy came on and made more positive contributions than Dele, Eriksen and Winks combined yet this was Poch’s response... wow.

Get. Allegri. Now.

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[Citizen Kane.]

The pass map confirms what we all suspected but weren't entirely sure could be correct: yesterday Christian Eriksen was a black hole where, if the ball ventured too close, it would vanish into the jaws of infinity (or, you know, the feet of someone wearing a red shirt)

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It was Eriksen who dallied on the ball, was dispossessed with ease and then they punted it long to Mane who won the penalty.

He is currently about as useful as Chiriches.

 

[humanbeingincroydon]

It was Eriksen who dallied on the ball, was dispossessed with ease and then they punted it long to Mane who won the penalty.

He is currently about as useful as Chiriches.

Same thing damn near happened in the second leg against Ajax, which goes against the Narrative that he's been downing tools since he failed to get his move to Spain

I know most of you are probably rolling your eyes at yet another pass map, but they certainly go a long way to demonstrating there's a broken cog in the system - and week after week that cog is revealed to be Eriksen as they show he's spending games either losing the ball, failing to make progressive passes, isn't in position for his teammates to find him

 

[Spurlock]

Not sure if it’s been mentioned by others but I thought Gazza should have stopped that ****ty Pen.

A wild whack with his left leg would have done it...no stretching involved

 

[Spurlock]

Same thing damn near happened in the second leg against Ajax, which goes against the Narrative that he's been downing tools since he failed to get his move to Spain

I know most of you are probably rolling your eyes at yet another pass map, but they certainly go a long way to demonstrating there's a broken cog in the system - and week after week that cog is revealed to be Eriksen as they show he's spending games either losing the ball, failing to make progressive passes, isn't in position for his teammates to find him

In other words he’s hiding

That’s why even Tanguy playing in that advanced role for a little while is more productive than Eriksen being on the pitch.

Poch is making himself look weak and clueless

When other players see how crap you are at dealing with individuals then some start to lose respect for your authority.

Poch is fast losing the qualities that we all thought were exactly what we need when he joined.

 

[Spurlock]

Tanguy came on and made more positive contributions than Dele, Eriksen and Winks combined yet this was Poch’s response... wow.

Get. Allegri. Now.

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You can’t act like Mourinho if you dont have the CV

Tanguy came on and the emphasis turned to attack again. He was owning the ball.

I’ve always said he’s too Daddy with the squad and it’s like a blinkered parent who just can’t see that their kids are a set of ****s and the real problem because it reflects badly on their parenting.

Like with Wenger at Arsenal it feels like Spurs are fast becoming Poch’s personal point proving project.

 

[humanbeingincroydon]

In other words he’s hiding

That’s why even Tanguy playing in that advanced role for a little while is more productive than Eriksen being on the pitch.

Poch is making himself look weak and clueless

When other players see how crap you are at dealing with individuals then some start to lose respect for your authority.

Poch is fast losing the qualities that we all thought were exactly what we need when he joined.

As I said elsewhere, if Lamela didn't get crocked in training Eriksen would not have started

And that's the problem: the options for who to start instead all had drawbacks
-Eriksen: too many to mention in a single bulletpoint
-Alli: was on the pitch in a different role, so we'd have had to reshuffle the team that could have unbalanced it elsewhere
-Lo Celso: coming back from injury and lacking fitness, so likely would've been knackered by the 60th minute
-Nobody: changing the shape of the team to avoid playing somebody is not good management
-Kane: a favourite of the Twitter/Reddit crowd, moving Kane into the hole and playing Son/Lucas up top and failing to see the obvious issue with that

That's the issue, Poch would be damned if he did and damned if he didn't, a recurring theme this season be it the outcry at the thought of us selling Danny Rose, the outcry at Sanchez being picked over Vertonghen in the first few games, or the outcry of Eriksen starting the first few games on the bench - so if we started yesterday with Eriksen on the bench the usual toxicity would've bubbled to the surface an hour before a ball had been kicked

 

[BobbyD]

Same thing damn near happened in the second leg against Ajax, which goes against the Narrative that he's been downing tools since he failed to get his move to Spain

I know most of you are probably rolling your eyes at yet another pass map, but they certainly go a long way to demonstrating there's a broken cog in the system - and week after week that cog is revealed to be Eriksen as they show he's spending games either losing the ball, failing to make progressive passes, isn't in position for his teammates to find him

Eriksens been turd but im not sure hes the one broken cog. He barely featured in 3 games this season (1-1 draw watford, 1-0 loss newcastle, 2-1 loss v Leicester). He also changed the game when he came on against villa.

Something is currently very wrong and even taking eriksen out isnt the perfect solution

 

[remembercolinlee]

Firstly, thank you to everyone for their kind comments yesterday.

Ain't watched the match but before I went out I saw Rose, Alderweireld and Eriksen starting along with winks. Am glad we did not get humiliated but imho while Eriksen, Rose and Aurier start games we will continue to concede more than we score.

Our form over the past 22 premier league matches is relegation form (I will save that for another thread) and yet Trippier was dumped for poor form even though he wanted to stay yet Rose and Aurier were told to find a club, failed (not really surprising) yet start ever big match even though Foyth and Davies are now fit. They (imo) should be starting with the other two being on the bench. Eriksen wants out and is playing poorly and Dele is seriously out of form yet Ndombele and Lo Celso are now fit but on the bench. Again, I would reverse that situation.

Toby wants out, no one came in for him (which suggests there are serious concerns about his fitness as £25m is sod all nowadays yet he always starts above Vertonghen.

Those we do not want and those who do not want us should not mske up over 35% of the starting line up imho yet this is happening week in week out.

8 points and a 10 plus goal difference is an awful lot to make up for a club who has won just 6 games in that last 22, got just 23 points from the past 22 games, has not won away from home since February, has only kept 4 clean sheets, only scored 29 goals, failed to score in 6 games (over 25%), thrown away 13 points from winning positions and has not gone more than 2 games without a loss...oh and has only won once in the last 5 games.

I like Pochettino and want him to stay as our manager but he is continually making the same selection mistakes and needs to stop before we find ourselves stuck in a relegation battle...and before I am accused of being pessimistic 23 points from 22 matches IS relegation form.

 

[humanbeingincroydon]

Eriksens been turd but im not sure hes the one broken cog. He barely featured in 3 games this season (1-1 draw watford, 1-0 loss newcastle, 2-1 loss v Leicester). He also changed the game when he came on against villa.

Something is currently very wrong and even taking eriksen out isnt the perfect solution

He was also slaughtered by the Danish press during the international break, even though he got a match-winning assist in one game (but did **** all else) so there's definitely something going wrong there

As you said, he changed the game against Villa when he came on - the issue is that, when he starts, he does nothing to influence games...for us, anyway

 

[Spurlock]

As I said elsewhere, if Lamela didn't get crocked in training Eriksen would not have started

And that's the problem: the options for who to start instead all had drawbacks
-Eriksen: too many to mention in a single bulletpoint
-Alli: was on the pitch in a different role, so we'd have had to reshuffle the team that could have unbalanced it elsewhere
-Lo Celso: coming back from injury and lacking fitness, so likely would've been knackered by the 60th minute
-Nobody: changing the shape of the team to avoid playing somebody is not good management
-Kane: a favourite of the Twitter/Reddit crowd, moving Kane into the hole and playing Son/Lucas up top and failing to see the obvious issue with that

That's the issue, Poch would be damned if he did and damned if he didn't, a recurring theme this season be it the outcry at the thought of us selling Danny Rose, the outcry at Sanchez being picked over Vertonghen in the first few games, or the outcry of Eriksen starting the first few games on the bench - so if we started yesterday with Eriksen on the bench the usual toxicity would've bubbled to the surface an hour before a ball had been kicked

He needs to mix it up a bit then...use his brain and his managerial nouse and tap into other skill sets of his players

Better managers than Poch improvise when need be. Pep picks midfielders in defence whilst having defenders sat on the bench. This is nothing to do with spending power before I get told that Pep has a bigger squad etc etc. Still it’s making the best of what is at your disposal instead of acting like a very weak man who keeps on picking the same loser who has zero interest in playing for us.

I’m not supporting any player who doesn’t want to play for us...not my fault our spineless manager keeps on picking him.

 

[Spurlock]

Eriksens been turd but im not sure hes the one broken cog. He barely featured in 3 games this season (1-1 draw watford, 1-0 loss newcastle, 2-1 loss v Leicester). He also changed the game when he came on against villa.

Something is currently very wrong and even taking eriksen out isnt the perfect solution

He’s a massive problem and one of many...he’s the stinkiest pair of underpants in the washing basket. He needs binning...others just need a good wash(maybe)

He didn’t change the Villa game...the system changed and he came on with 15 to go to exploit it...in other words it all fell into place for his little cameo

He’s done nothing for a year and as a fan of the team that he plays for...there is nothing more infuriating than watching him stroll, play under hit passes without a **** being given.

He might not be the only problem but he’s the biggest problem so needs to **** off out of here ASAP

 

[humanbeingincroydon]

He needs to mix it up a bit then...use his brain and his managerial nouse and tap into other skill sets of his players

Better managers than Poch improvise when need be. Pep picks midfielders in defence whilst having defenders sat on the bench. This is nothing to do with spending power before I get told that Pep has a bigger squad etc etc. Still it’s making the best of what is at your disposal instead of acting like a very weak man who keeps on picking the same loser who has zero interest in playing for us.

I’m not supporting any player who doesn’t want to play for us...not my fault our spineless manager keeps on picking him.

Sissoko started at right back against Brighton while Dier started at centre back against Colchester, so he was using the skillsets of his players in other positions - which didn't work, the former because our centre was so weak due to Sissoko not being there to toughen it up, the latter because the Wanyama looked like he either couldn't play football or couldn't be bothered to which left Skipp having to do the work of two players which he simply can't at this stage