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littleDinosaurLuke said:
Probably should have done. It was a foul even though it was only a slight touch on him. It was also a long way back at the start of the move.
It seems as though they are intent on not wholly undermining refs through VAR.
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The problem in this case isn't just VaR but the wording of the Law. Kicking a player is only a foul if done 'in a manner considered by the referee to be careless, reckless or using excessive force'. 'Careless is when a player shows a lack of attention or consideration when making a challenge or acts without precaution'. That wording is absurd and unclear but makes the judgement of the referee crucial. If Atkinson didn't see the kick then he made a clear error and it should have been overturned by VaR or at least referred back to him to see if he thought it was careless. If he saw it but judged it not to be careless then there is no case for VaR to overturn it.
Of course what the Laws ought to allow for is that football is a contact sport and there will inevitably be minor kicks and other impacts that should not be penalised at all.
 
PowerSpurs said:
The problem in this case isn't just VaR but the wording of the Law. Kicking a player is only a foul if done 'in a manner considered by the referee to be careless, reckless or using excessive force'. 'Careless is when a player shows a lack of attention or consideration when making a challenge or acts without precaution'. That wording is absurd and unclear but makes the judgement of the referee crucial. If Atkinson didn't see the kick then he made a clear error and it should have been overturned by VaR or at least referred back to him to see if he thought it was careless. If he saw it but judged it not to be careless then there is no case for VaR to overturn it.
Of course what the Laws ought to allow for is that football is a contact sport and there will inevitably be minor kicks and other impacts that should not be penalised at all.
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It was a tackle from behind, which, of course, is harder to argue was not a foul as they have effectively been outlawed.
So it is surprising VAR didn't call it as a foul in the build up and disallow it.
But was there any dialogue with Atkinson? Can the VAR official ask about his decision and discuss it with him?
The inference is that they can and did and were told by Atkinson that he didn't judge Lindelof's tackle to be a foul.
 
littleDinosaurLuke said:
It was a tackle from behind, which, of course, is harder to argue was not a foul as they have effectively been outlawed.
So it is surprising VAR didn't call it as a foul in the build up and disallow it.
But was there any dialogue with Atkinson? Can the VAR official ask about his decision and discuss it with him?
The inference is that they can and did and were told by Atkinson that he didn't judge Lindelof's tackle to be a foul.
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Even if it was a tackle (defined unhelpfully in the Laws as 'a challenge for the ball with the foot') the same words about carelessness apply. There is no mention of tackles from behind except in the definition of serious foul play.
I still don't think that minor contact should be a foul. It didn't prevent Origi controlling the ball.
The Law on VARs says

"The VAR describes to the referee what can be seen on the TV replay(s) but not the decision to be taken, and the referee then:
• makes a final decision based on the referee’s own perception and the information from the VAR, and, where appropriate, input from other match officials – VAR-only review or
• goes to the referee review area to view replay footage – ‘on-field review’ (OFR) – before making a final decision. The other match officials will not review the footage unless, in exceptional circumstances, asked to do so by the referee"
So yes the VAR talks to the ref who makes the final call.
 
An accidental minor tap on the ankle or shin is not enough contact to impede a player from completing his action or send him flying to the ground, nor is it careless, reckless or using excessive force. It is time referees stopped dishing out free kicks and penalties when players are feeling feather like contact before diving to the floor, football is a contact sport but you wouldn`t think so.
 
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Spurf said:
I enjoyed that, a good old fashioned English side beating a team of fancy dans.
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I'm actually so sick of these predictable performances against any side with hard runners and defensive solidity. You just knew what the outcome was going to be tonight. And yet again, Emery fields an XI totally incapable of combating Sheffield's main strengths. He also seems to be suffering from Wenger-itus this winter as he took ages to make the correct substitutions.

To be honest, he's shown absolutely zero evidence that he's learned from his mistakes. I don't understand what the hell he's watching.

He needs to **** off.
 
BrunelGooner said:
I'm actually so sick of these predictable performances against any side with hard runners and defensive solidity. You just knew what the outcome was going to be tonight. And yet again, Emery fields an XI totally incapable of combating Sheffield's main strengths. He also seems to be suffering from Wenger-itus this winter as he took ages to make the correct substitutions.

To be honest, he's shown absolutely zero evidence that he's learned from his mistakes. I don't understand what the hell he's watching.

He needs to **** off.
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Mate if it’s any consolation we’re even worse at the moment.

Although... Pepe... :emoticon-0136-giggl
 
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Dier Hard said:
Mate if it’s any consolation we’re even worse at the moment.

Although... Pepe... :emoticon-0136-giggl
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This is what really grates on me though. Spurs, though they are a better team than us, are in disarray. Chelsea have had a transfer ban and a new yet inexperienced manager. United look terrible under OGS (a semi-decent performance in their cup final v Liverpool won't mask how they've done overall). This is the chance to really take advantage and seize the day, yet we're also deciding to be absolutely **** along with the aforementioned sides.

The football we are playing is absolutely awful too. It's pathetic all round.
 
BrunelGooner said:
This is what really grates on me though. Spurs, though they are a better team than us, are in disarray. Chelsea have had a transfer ban and a new yet inexperienced manager. United look terrible under OGS (a semi-decent performance in their cup final v Liverpool won't mask how they've done overall). This is the chance to really take advantage and seize the day, yet we're also deciding to be absolutely **** along with the aforementioned sides.

The football we are playing is absolutely awful too. It's pathetic all round.
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Welcome to the club, brother!
 
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