Jack Ross, the good ...

[Brainman]

It's a shame. I like Ross as a man. But the team seems to reflect his quiet, thoughtful approach.
There's no fire in the belly.
Maybe we haven't got the players to play a fast high pressing game.
But, christ, being outplayed by Lincoln City!
I haven't a clue who should replace him, but scraping wins isn't good enough and we need someone who can send the team out better motivated.

 

[Vincemac]

... the bad and the ugly.

It seems like the time has come when this subject needs a thread of its own.

After the Bolton match @MackemGlobeTrotter posted a great thread with statistics, analysis and various opinions.

This is just a rant from someone who trudged, humiliated, out of Peterborough, Bolton and Lincoln.

I sat on a train opposite two lads who defended Ross and thought he should be given more time ...
.... I think about 10 years, with no chance of parole, would be about right.

Their argument is that there's no guarantee that anyone else would do better with those players. They admitted that they can't see us promoted, with Ross, so surely there's no risk bringing someone else in.

I believe that the only thing stopping Ross being sacked is the takeover. In my opinion he's caretaker manager because there's no one else at the club capable of doing that job.

I saw plenty of bad and ugly, yesterday, but can't recall anything good except the support ...

... what a mess Ross has made of his chance to manage a big club.

I’m surprised he is still with us this morning

 

[Woody]

I recall my feelings when I watched the lads warming up at the Oxford game , and compared their lack of vigour and energy with that of the opposition. I was not impressed and worried about the likely result of the match. Sure enough, we were lucky and could and probably should have lost 3 nil. They looked unprofessional and unguided. I am increasingly worried about the direction we are heading … losing to the likes of Lincoln and only luckily drawing with Bolton is a sure sign we have lost our way.

 

[Was Silent]

Below is a quote from Jack Ross towards Neal Cooper. It says a lot about him.
I wonder if his current players have the same feeling.

"maybe the manager thinks I have let him down but that's nothing compared with how I feel about him".

 

[Nozs’ Hat]

It’s his systems I can’t undestand, the whole 3 at the back debacle, now 4-5-1. I watched Brighton on MOTD and the 4-4-2 system I think would suit our squad. Two holding midfielders with the wide players pushed ahead on the wings, giving 4 attacking players on the break.

We should be trying to blow teams away, and with some confidence this team can do that. I’d rather throw caution to the wind and win 4-3 than try and scrape a 1-0 win and more often than not get a draw.

I think a new manager will come in and implement something similar. Creating loads of chances which will breed confidence. At the minute, our strikers get 1 or 2 opportunities to score and they aren’t of that quality. Give them 6 or 7 attempts and they’ll get a goal.

 

[OldNewtown]

I feel that we have now reached the point where the takeover is impacting on the team.
My take is the players have accepted that Ross will be leaving when the takeover goes through. Whilst I wouldn't say that they are just going through the motions I would say that they are only operating at 90%. As in all things if you don't give it 100% your chances of success are diminished. I also feel that Ross has accepted that he will be leaving and is in a similar boat.
Not a good recipe for success.

 

[Zidane]

I thought he was wrong appointment from start.

I wanted experience.

 

[Mr_B]

Sounded like just the man for us when he was appointed. Despite inheriting a chaotic squad, he ended up with a squad that should have achieved automatic promotion last year. The quality of football has been poor and we struggle to dominate matches. Gave him the benefit of the doubt for last season, but performances have been woeful this season, Ipswich and Peterborough games were bad enough, but to be outplayed by a makeshift Bolton was the final straw for me. Even if he gets us up, probably via the play offs, I would struggle to be optimistic in the Championship with Ross in charge. Yesterday’s performance and result have simply confirmed my opinion that we need a change.

 

[East Durham]

He must go. It’s absolutely appalling, and even when we win it’s laboured and usually is us hanging on at the end.

However, I do think he has been let down badly by the recruitment team.

Last season Stevie Wonder wearing a blindfold could see we lacked any kind of pace throughout the side, and we were weak as piss and got bullied. We were crying out for pace and a bit of power right through the team. Willis is the only one who fits this bill. We still have a team full of players with zero pace and who get bullied by any player over 6 foot.

Everyone knew Oviedo would be away this summer, regardless of division. Plans should have been made about replacing him, especially when in June we let Reece James leave. James was steady enough, no world beater even at this level and IMO no great loss. However, despite knowing Oviedo was away and having 3 month to sign a replacement for James, we still ended up panic buying a left back from Leeds who nobody has heard of and the Leeds fan ridicule for being so ****. And unfortunately I can’t see Hume being a professional footballer for very long.

Ross seemed like he had his heart set on playing 352 this season. After losing Matthews, Oviedo and James (all of which would fill that wingback slot quite well) we started the season with Gooch and O’Nien filling in at RWB, and the lad we signed to play right back squeezed in to play centre back. Does Ross have no say in transfers? Do they not liaise with him and ask him what formation he is looking to play or what style he wants to play, and sign players to fit that? Because of the 352 being a nightmare, and Hume being canny poor/injured, we end up with the lad who we signed to play right back but squeezed in at centre back playing at left back, and an advanced midfield player at right back. Shambles.

In midfield, I’ve already mentioned us lacking that bit of physicality and ability to move. Yes we signed Dobson who does seem to provide us that bit of energy, but he doesn’t seem very good. The rest of our options are all much of a muchness. Nobody who can really get about the pitch and impose themselves on the game. They’ll all pick the ball up and play some nice 10/20 yard passes sideways or backwards, but that’s about it.

McGeady played through the last 6 weeks of last season with a broken foot because we were so desperate. He is STILL playing injured because we did not sign any wingers. We have Gooch, who sadly will never make it above this level IMO, Maguire who again will never make it above this level and is better as a number 10 anyway due to having zero pace, McGeady who is clearly very unfit and Watmore, who seems to be ruined by injury. At least at the end of last year we had Morgan. Is this failure to sign wingers because Ross wanted to play 352??

Strikers - yes losing Maja was a blow. However, had Wyke been fit at the start of last season would Maja have even got a look in? Our policy when signing strikers appears to be look at who’s scored goals in this league previously. Wyke is horrendous, up there with James Vaughan in being the worst forward I’ve seen play for us. At least the likes of Altidore and Prica were ****e at a higher level. Grigg just doesn’t look interested, and tbh he is living off scraps. Scraps of ****. Dragged through ****. Does not excuse his lack of effort mind, but whatever style of football we play does not suit Grigg.....so why did we spend so much on him?

So yes, Ross has been let down by recruitment. Badly I’d say. How much of a say has he had in these? I’ve no idea. But whoever is in charge of recruitment should be following Ross out of the door.

HOWEVER.....

We do not look organised and we do not look fit enough. We have no style of football other than turn up and hope our better players turn up and drag us through. That IS something Ross certainly can control and influence. We are blowing out of our arses after an hour, so who is in charge of fitness? We look all over the place defensively. Ross spoke about wanting 20 clean sheets, after his obsession with them last year. We have 0. We don’t have the players to play out from the back. Our midfield don’t seem to want to get their foot on the ball and test the opposition, or drive forwards with the ball. We have no pace to use a ball over the top, or to get the ball and run at opposition defenders. If teams even slightly press us, we **** ourselves and lump the ball forward to whichever of our weak, slow forwards we’re playing this week and then the ball comes straight back at us.

Ross has been let down. But he’s also let himself down. Managers in this league with smaller squads full of lesser players with budgets a fraction the size of ours can get their teams organised and attempting to play football. Ross has been in charge for around 80 games, and I’ve still no idea what he wants to do with this squad. For me, he should have gone straight after the playoff final. And he certainly should not be given another game to show everyone how out of his depth he is here.

Time to go, Ross, Coton and Hill.

Excellent summary

 

[sheepman]

Week in week out its the complete lack of team work that slaps you in the face.
No idea what they do in training but we don't defend as a team, attack as a team or press the ball as a team.
Players are constantly isolated no support, no options
11 individual players making it up as they go along.

He needs to go but the replacement is crucial.
Having seen player recruitment recently Not sure I trust the current setup to get it right.

This takeover needs to see a complete overhaul of the footballing side of the club

 

[quinneristops]

So who is out there to replace him? SAFC has a very poor record when it comes to managers and a lot of reputations have been broken. What talented aspiring manager would risk it now? I think the takeover talks have unsettled everyone and it needs to be resolved quickly

 

[clockstander]

He's dreadful and he has to go. I was actually tempted to start a poll on here about it as it might be more "balanced" than the SMB but I've been here no time so thought I'd leave it to others if they want to. I imagine the results would mirror over the road though.

The bad things: we have no clear style of play. He has focused specifically on clean sheets and then, embarrassingly, seen us be the only club in league one not to keep one. Equally, if you're going to focus on being defensively sound, you've got to be clinical when you go forward. We don't have the players for that as none of our strikers have shown themselves to be anything like clinical (maybe harsh on McNulty who I like tbf but he needs to get back on the pitch). We also have no pace which hardly helps when trying to sit back then spring on the opposition.

He's still trying to find his best eleven. I was optimistic that he might have stumbled across it, and no changes on Saturday was a positive as far as I could tell but after that performance it'll have to be all change again. De Bock after a solid debut looked just like we'd been warned about by others.

His comments in the press have been pissing me off. We're a big club down here with a big budget (comparatively) to the point where even the owners were targeting 100 points. He never acts like that though, hardly ever (yesterday the exception) says we simply aren't good enough. It's always "Rochdale actually played really well" etc. It's not the be all and end all but I'd like a bit of arrogance, a bit of swagger, you wouldn't see Roy Keane accepting anything less than winning every game down here, those are the standards we need, not seemingly excusing a series of inept performances with some wins that have blatantly papered over the massive cracks. His comments have increasingly sounded like self preservation.

Performances are the big thing though, I can barely remember the last time we actually played well. In fact, since Maja left it basically hasn't happened (and we weren't always great when he was here). We've been getting a decent number of points but only because of the incredibly low standard of this league, especially near the bottom. How many games have you genuinely walked away thinking "we were really good today, deserved that"? Can't really think of any in the league (Portsmouth we were good second half but woeful in the first even though we ended it ahead). We fall behind too often, we don't kill teams off when we go ahead, and we rely on random bits of skill from someone like McGeady. None of that screams good management to me. I'm also not convinced about our fitness levels. And he can't get a tune out of two strikers who had previously scored a decent number at this level

**** me, the bad has taken a lot longer than I thought it would. I'd say sorry but it's largely Jack Ross' fault for being a useless knacker. The good is a lot shorter: he seems a decent bloke, I think he's working hard and I like that he was prepared to move to the area. That commitment led me to want to give him time, but I feel he could have gone after the utterly woeful play off final where we were gifted a lead and then completely stopped playing. He's had his time, time to go

Something is wrong, and a few have been saying something very similar to @ Hudson for a long while now on 606. Pre-season set the alarm bells ringing, that the mistakes obvious from the previous seasons Wembley visits, was that Ross was tactically clueless and could not think on his feet. His starting elevens are fine generally, but his substitutions are consistently woeful. I actually liked Ross and clung on to the fact that an intelligent man would learn from his mistakes and slowly improve on them but sadly this is not happening. The chopping and changing in the limited pre season games, highlighted the uncertainty, but I put this down to getting the players fit rather than any tactical ineptitude.
From the players available at the start of the season I also thought a 3/5/2 was the formation to stick with. but It was abandoned after 45 torrid minutes when no one looked like they had heard about 3/5/2 in their lives and Hume who I do rate, was the obvious scapegoat. As De Bock is now.
Along with Hume, who I still rate, I was hoping that by now we would have a young fit and hungry team based on that which Robbie Stockdale had mouldied in the academy, and showed what they could do in his one game as caretaker manager, and the first doubts I had on Ross came when Stockdale being shown the door and Ball retained
Just how many of these decisions are Ross's responsibility I dont know and only he could answer, but i dnnt expect he will. If he goes which is likely sooner or later progress is not guaranteed unless the structure is addressed, whether the horse before the cart or visa versa we cant go on like this.

 

[flandersmackem]

No more experiments for me... we can’t afford to take punts on up and coming managers. We need to get out of this league... I know he’s not everyone’s cup of tea but I would go with Pulis for a couple of years with someone in mind to take over thereafter and Pulis becomes DoF... his knowledge would be immense

 

[Bigmackem]

Interesting that apparently Chris Hughton turned down an approach from Stoke City , it makes it difficult to think he would contemplate coming to SAFC as we are An EFL1 club , in life shy bairns get nowt so a discreet enquiry would not be amiss I would think . Watched Brighton take Spurs apart yesterday and most of the team were made up of Hughton's players and it was in stark contrast to what we have seen this season , up until now I have been in the pro Ross camp but I think it is now time to react - the International break has probably came at the right time to assess where we are as a club irrespective of the takeover . Let's hope the takeover is concluded sooner rather than later because I sense things are starting to drift on the pitch due to the uncertainty .

 

[samwise_new]

said it last season, we scraped most wins because the opposition were not finishing chances against us rather than us outplaying anyone...take maja's goals out and at the very least we would have had even more draws.

onto the start of this season, and the self same signs were there with the added 'bonus' of no established/experienced left or right backs which more or less left 3-5-2 as the only formation we could try, it failed as we all expected it to.

had we seen ANY improvement, direction, change of style i am fairly sure we would all be happy to persist with ross after our manager merry go round of recent years, as it is we even seem to be going backwards and that is something i never thought possible...i still think that the current squad is more than good enough to get us promoted but they need direction and fast.

EDIT: just read the above post and i would add hughton at the top of my wish list as well, with the takeover hopefully happening i am sure any manager would look at the potential spending power he would have.

 

[rooch 3]

No more experiments for me... we can’t afford to take punts on up and coming managers. We need to get out of this league... I know he’s not everyone’s cup of tea but I would go with Pulis for a couple of years with someone in mind to take over thereafter and Pulis becomes DoF... his knowledge would be immense

I would happily keep him if he was doing well.

 

[Woody]

Interesting that apparently Chris Hughton turned down an approach from Stoke City , it makes it difficult to think he would contemplate coming to SAFC as we are An EFL1 club , in life shy bairns get nowt so a discreet enquiry would not be amiss I would think . Watched Brighton take Spurs apart yesterday and most of the team were made up of Hughton's players and it was in stark contrast to what we have seen this season , up until now I have been in the pro Ross camp but I think it is now time to react - the International break has probably came at the right time to assess where we are as a club irrespective of the takeover . Let's hope the takeover is concluded sooner rather than later because I sense things are starting to drift on the pitch due to the uncertainty .

Hughton would my choice .. if he would be willing to come.

 

[clockstander]

Week in week out its the complete lack of team work that slaps you in the face.
No idea what they do in training but we don't defend as a team, attack as a team or press the ball as a team.
Players are constantly isolated no support, no options
11 individual players making it up as they go along.

He needs to go but the replacement is crucial.
Having seen player recruitment recently Not sure I trust the current setup to get it right.

This takeover needs to see a complete overhaul of the footballing side of the club

Confusing as it is, we have shown the qualities highlighted in your first paragraph, in the cup games but not the league where we have been abysmal, have you any thoughts here as I am at a lost to explain it.
Apologies for the highlighted bits just my way of attempting clarity, not meant to be anything else as I agree with all the points you make. Nice avatar .

 

[Zak's Dad]

It was a gamble to appoint an inexperienced manager from outside of the English league's and it hasn't worked.

He doesn't have a clue what his best team is and makes some baffling decisions. How McGeouch has became a regular starter in the CM is just plain wrong.

I'll be honest when he arrived I was thinking "who?".

Then I watched the press conference, read the interviews and looked online and found his YouTube channel, and I thought "great! A young manager with progressive ideas who knows what's he's talking about and wants to play a pressing game and win by outscoring the opposition".

His first competitive match at the SOL against Charlton and we struggled first half but were completely different in the second.
I then saw an interview afterwards and he said:
"we were surprised at how Charlton set up specifically against us, so we changed things at half time to and you saw the results".

I have to admit I was impressed by his confidence, calmness and tactical ability, but to be honest after the first few months it's been a groundhog day of set up and tactics.
Something's happened to make him incredibly risk averse and he can't get out of it.

The gamble hasn't paid off in any sense at all. The fact that he won't even "back himself" by reverting to his attacking ethos speaks volumes to me.

For whatever reason he's unable to stop the slide and therefore totally out of his depth.

 

[FulwellBri]

I'd seriously give it to Bally for a few weeks until this take-over happens. Whats the worst that can happen? One thing for sure, you will see 11 guys motivated and running themselves into the ground for the shirt. I'm sure they wouldn't fancy facing him if they didn't.

Bally presided over some very listless performances during his times in charge. The humiliating flogging by nufc showed he doesnt have a clue how to coach, organize or motivate a first team squad.
In short..no thank you.
Ditto keane