The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Mon 30th Sept)

[Doc]

Crewe beat Leeds 2-1 at TA

Much better 2nd half from the champions and looked good but only managed the one goal. It was a dominant performance but we've seen plenty of them in the first team and come off losing. Robbie Gotts scored the goal made by Edmondson who was pretty poor today

 

[Infidel]

After watching the game on Saturday and the one against Derby i am bewildered, confused and a little worried how the season is going to pan out.

If you break down the possession it is mainly in the centre of the pitch or in our own half, this tells us that teams get behind the ball, play a back five, middle four, and one up front, pointless pumping the ball into the box in the air, we dont have a player who can capitalise on it (Wood would have had a field day if still with us)

I did say last week prior to the Charlton game, if Bowyer has Philips marked and closed down along with Hernandez (no need to plan for that as Bielsa told them in advance that he wasn't playing) then we may well struggle............Philips had a job done on him and had a poor game!!! he had a poor game because he was not allowed into the game by Bowyer's tactics, and it was interesting that Bowyer had a good word in his ear after the final whistle, love to know what was said!!

I also think we missed a trick getting rid of Pontus Jannson!!!! with him, Ben White and Ayling at the back we would of had height (something we are lacking) we are so vulnerable at the back at set pieces, along with Dallas at left back, Alioski, Douglas and Cooper would be a fringe player only in my set up, sorry just not good enough. Question to ponder on, how many goals have we scored from set pieces or corners over the last 2 seasons? not many i fear.

I personally feel we have confusion atm in midfield, we dont seem settled, injuries are there but Amigo Bielsa has had over 12 months with more or less the same players to perm his formation and for players to be able to come in and business as usual, its not happening, is the language barrier a fault.

Up front we are struggling, Bamford needs more coaching, (something i dont think we have at TA) he cannot head a ball for starters and seems to snatch at chances, i thought him and Nketiah would be an handfull at Charlton, that just didnt seem to happen, i again thought there was confusion between them who was playing where. We have to start making the opposing keeper work and that means hitting the target

Goalkeeper!!!!............ i thought he was going to settle and not only command his box but also the defence, not happening, maybe time for the French lad to come in and see what happens, one thing is for certain that the defence is not comfortable with Kiko.

If i hear the comment on the U23's players......... they are too young to be introduced into the team, not ready yet, THEN GET RID OF THEM OR LETS START PLAYING THEM !!!! there are plenty of 18/19 year olds playing in the PL and Europe (Haarlands lad is a prime example)

Thats enough of the rant, i nearly did it after Derby but bit my lip, but Saturday was just not good enough, again i feel for the faithful who travel through thick and thin, rain or shine and shall do what ever.............they need rewarding for there loyalty.

 

[Doc]

Big news for Sparky

Fifa have ruled that Cardiff must pay Nantes £6m for Emilio Sala

I hope this means insurance payments to his wife and family will now happen. Lets not forget about the poor pilot and his family, who is still down in the sea .....

 

[Doc]

Ayling signed a 4 year deal today, which will be broadcast to the media tomoz

Klich deal also nearing completion

 

[bucks_is_leeds]

Ayling signed a 4 year deal today, which will be broadcast to the media tomoz

Klich deal also nearing completion

I worry about all these. Because if we fail this season will anyone get them playing like Belisa? Or if we go up do they play apart?

If we don't follow Belisas foot print if we fail to go up what are we got with?

 

[FORZA LEEDS]

I worry about all these. Because if we fail this season will anyone get them playing like Belisa? Or if we go up do they play apart?

If we don't follow Belisas foot print if we fail to go up what are we got with?

I get the impression from the kind of person Bielsa is that when he leaves he won’t want to see all his hard work (from the way all the different age groups play the same way etc) go to waste, so he’ll make sure he hands over the reins to Carlos Corberan as a natural progression.

 

[Eric Le Merde]

I get the impression from the kind of person Bielsa is that when he leaves he won’t want to see all his hard work (from the way all the different age groups play the same way etc) go to waste, so he’ll make sure he hands over the reigns to Carlos Corberan as a natural progression.

I do hope so, with Bielsa retained as a consultant?

 

[Whitejock]

I know that there's a lot of confidence that Carlos will be able to take up the reins when Bielsa does move on. My concern is not the man himself, or his abilities, but the backing team he will require. Bielsa has quite a team around him, one that has taken years to put together. Carlos would only have a few u23 coaches in his team - a HUGE drop in capability & skills. He could employ outsiders, but how many of them know how Bielsaball works?

He might be a talented chap, but you can't do it all yourself. Remember Cellino tried to do it all himself. Different job, same approach. Ended in disaster on all fronts. Would have driven him mad if he hadn't already arrived there before he started!

 

[bucks_is_leeds]

I get the impression from the kind of person Bielsa is that when he leaves he won’t want to see all his hard work (from the way all the different age groups play the same way etc) go to waste, so he’ll make sure he hands over the reigns to Carlos Corberan as a natural progression.

This is what I'm hoping. And on that basis he's the only one to come in after IMO but don't he's backroom staff usually go with him?

I'm sure we've already thought of this

 

[Whitejock]

Given his success to date, with bugger all resources, I'd be quite happy for Rat Boy to come in, if Carlos declined the invitation. He's clearly still got a pair, as Charlton had to beg him to stay this year. In fact, didn't he resign in principle because of a budget dispute?

 

[esteponawhite]

So first week of october,we are talking of bielsa leaving?
We have conceded 5 goals so far, are 2 points off top.
We are playing some amazing football,
Some of you lot need to really look at yourselves,the negative **** you post.
MOT

 

[Whitejock]

So first week of october,we are talking of bielsa leaving?
We have conceded 5 goals so far, are 2 points off top.
We are playing some amazing football,
Some of you lot need to really look at yourselves,the negative **** you post.
MOT

LOL! I wasn't posting in the hope that Bielsa is leaving. That would be calamitous. He will at some point though, given his track record, and that was why I was adding my comments on Carlos perhaps not being the package that's expected, given his lack of a team. The Rat Boy comment was simply because he's surprised me before, & continues to surprise me. Feel guilty that I've never given him credit before.

 

[Infidel]

LOL! I wasn't posting in the hope that Bielsa is leaving. That would be calamitous. He will at some point though, given his track record, and that was why I was adding my comments on Carlos perhaps not being the package that's expected, given his lack of a team. The Rat Boy comment was simply because he's surprised me before, & continues to surprise me. Feel guilty that I've never given him credit before.

Rat boy as you call him has been in quite a few changing rooms listening to some tactical influential Managers in his career, obviously some has rubbed off on him, plus I don’t think Rat boy would be against changing players if they under perform.

 

[LeedsLover]

Morning all...

We’ll probably go out and beat West Brom now and wonder what all the fuss and worry was about

Was thinking same thing yesterday Ristac, I agree with you.

Is Phillips playing?......ok, better not agree to keep it a level playing field..

I think there's a psychological problem with some players. Teams we're favourites to beat, or lowly teams we struggle against, but the bigger teams seem to bring out the best in us most of time.

Our defences mindset seems to be fixed on playing every ball out from the back. We're losing midfield and we're getting caught on quick breaks.

Our defenders need to look up occasionally and make a good long forward pass for Nikita or Costa to run on too and create a quick break. Trying to walk ball into net all time ain't working.

 

[ristac]

Was thinking same thing yesterday Ristac, I agree with you.

Is Phillips playing?......ok, better not agree to keep it a level playing field..

I think there's a psychological problem with some players. Teams we're favourites to beat, or lowly teams we struggle against, but the bigger teams seem to bring out the best in us most of time.

Our defences mindset seems to be fixed on playing every ball out from the back. We're losing midfield and we're getting caught on quick breaks.

Our defenders need to look up occasionally and make a good long forward pass for Nikita or Costa to run on too and create a quick break. Trying to walk ball into net all time ain't working.

I’m not sure of the stats but I’d be surprised if we’re not having even more possession this season than last and I think it’s the formation change. Although we’ll never agree on Phillips, Bielsa is not going to drop him, you’ll have to accept he is the holding midfield player who drops in to cover as CB if the opposition go two up front.

Bowyer admitted he did this against us to purposely force Phillips into the backline and as WJ pointed out, Phillips as an occasional covering CB for someone who’s caught forward is fine but a CB for the majority of the game means we lose his midfield presence and just like Alioski isn’t a LB Phillips is no CB

When the opposition go two up front I wish Bielsa would refrain from his back three tactic, we just need to starve the opposition front two of any service, not allow them the service but hope 3v2 is better.

Now back to the extra possession and formation change, with Phillips selected I don’t believe we need Klich and Forshaw in front of him, or Klich and Shackleton, last season if we’d had an inform and head in the right place Saiz playing at 10 we’d have been promoted.

We signed Costa and like many I assumed Costa wide right and Pablo at 10 but no, Bielsa has suddenly decided to pack out midfield with Phillips, Forshaw and Klich, yes we keep even more possession and it show all the way up to the final 3rd then we lack creativity because the person who could supply it is being frozen out by Klich/Forshaw

Another grey area for confusion, I along with a few others keep calling Dallas a RB and Alioski a LB as I’m assuming that is the actual position they have been asked to play? So when the opposition go two up front and Phillips gets told drop into a back three, he is actually dropping into a back 5

We should not have to lose his presence as the holding midfield player if the RB and LB are doing their jobs correctly, we just look a poorer team when we do this.

 

[milkyboy]

Given his success to date, with bugger all resources, I'd be quite happy for Rat Boy to come in, if Carlos declined the invitation. He's clearly still got a pair, as Charlton had to beg him to stay this year. In fact, didn't he resign in principle because of a budget dispute?

I think it was, slightly less honourably, about his own pay!

 

[milkyboy]

Re Phillips dropping into back 3 on Saturday.

1. He was poor in the first half as dm
2. It wasn’t playing in the back 3 in the second half that led to him getting caught in possession and banging passes into row z. He just played ****.

Would I prefer him at DM, of course I would.

 

[ristac]

Re Phillips dropping into back 3 on Saturday.

1. He was poor in the first half as dm
2. It wasn’t playing in the back 3 in the second half that led to him getting caught in possession and banging passes into row z. He just played ****.

Would I prefer him at DM, of course I would.

My point was more the fact Bowyer said they played two up front to force Phillips out of the DM position, Charlton wanted us to play a certain formation and forced us into it based on knowing Bielsas reaction would be predictable

What if Bielsa had told Phillips to hold his position or subbed him and went more attacking ourselves, that might have screwed up the opposition plan. Being predictable when you have a team that works is one thing, constantly following a pattern by dropping a very good DM into a CB roll that he is not very good at is another matter

 

[milkyboy]

Sure... I get and agree with the point that you don’t want an opposition manager dictating that you move one of your best players out of his best position. I was just observing that the change didn’t seem to impact on Phillips or the team’s performance on sat.

 

[LeedsLover]

I’m not sure of the stats but I’d be surprised if we’re not having even more possession this season than last and I think it’s the formation change. Although we’ll never agree on Phillips, Bielsa is not going to drop him, you’ll have to accept he is the holding midfield player who drops in to cover as CB if the opposition go two up front.

Here's Phillips stats,

5 yard passes = 32 per game......8 yard passes = 23 per game.....passes back to the passer = 18 per game....backwards passes....15 per game....sideways passes left and right = too many to count, off the scale..

Agreed we're having more possession cos Phillips is making more sideways, backwards and back to same player passes, if we had a player in stands behind goal Phillips would try and pass to him .....

Now back to the extra possession and formation change, with Phillips selected I don’t believe we need Klich and Forshaw in front of him, or Klich and Shackleton, last season if we’d had an inform and head in the right place Saiz playing at 10 we’d have been promoted.

Phillips don't need Klich or Forshaw cos he's got Dallas, White, Cooper, Kiko and the sidelines to pass too...

Seriously, if it came to value and impact on field, don't be surprised if most fans pick Klich and/or Forshaw over Phillips.

Bielsa can't drop him, A, he's got no one else to put in and B, Phillips has "play every game, including cup games and Tiddlywinks" clauses in his contract....

We should not have to lose his presence as the holding midfield player if the RB and LB are doing their jobs correctly, we just look a poorer team when we do this.

PHILLIPS, A HOLDING MIDFIELDER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!....We're losing the midfield again. He gets beat for pace, he passes long crosses to the fans sitting along sidelines or behind the opposite goal, he gives up when players go past him or dispossess him, he goes awol, can't read a game and he needs to take his corners from 6 yard box line. Only thing he's good at holding is his leg up so the ball can pass through it........I tell a lie, he's very good at holding his hands up and looking at other players after the balls gone past him into our goal.......Watch him during games, you'll see he gives up chasing or getting back quite a few times, he also gets caught out of position.

Let me give you some serious observations.

When the team is playing well, Phillips performances, same as Harrison and Bamford are masked, when we had a game like we did against Charlton Phillips performances become very visible, same as Harrison and Bamford. Ayling is the same when he pushes too far forward and can't get back to stop an opposing attack.

Now, you mentioned Bowyer played a certain way to force Phillips out the DM position (I don't believe that by the way)..........if that's the case, why did Phillips fall for it, and why couldn't he read it?

Other teams last season, and some this season played Phillips out the game, and some teams will in coming games.........why?

If he can be played out the game in this league so easily, what do you think they're going to do to him in Prem.......they'll tear him apart and leave him for dead.

Borrowed this from Infidels comments (not a dig at infidel but he observed)

.Philips had a job done on him and had a poor game!!! he had a poor game because he was not allowed into the game by Bowyer's tactics.

I think someone mentioned Jock said a similar thing............what does that tell you, what picture does it paint............is the excuse "Phillips had a job done on him, he wasn't allowed into the game cos of Bowyers tactics".........or does it show that "Phillips couldn't read the game, had no clue what was happening to him and didn't know how to combat it"...............does it also show what other teams do to him, and what the prem teams will do to him.