Off Topic Politics Thread

I sincerely hope you're right. The problem is that, particularly at this moment in British politics, being utterly insane doesn't prevent something happening.

Vin

 

Interesting read.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-ne...r.com&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=sharebar

 

All so true. The woman who famously said “There is no such thing as society” did her best to divide us from each other so the rich could benefit.

Elvis Costello spoke for millions when he wrote this one:

 

I am sick to death with Brexit. It is a total shambles. The annoying thing is that if the EU was not so dysfunctional , stopped seeming to fly in the face of democracy and worked as it was originally intended, I don't think anyone in their right mind would have voted for Brexit. If the EU worked properly, we would never have needed to have a vote.

It is frustrating on so many aspects. Firstly, it always seems the case that whenever the Conservatives have a crisis, it becomes a crisis for the nation. Secondly, I think if Labour get involved in sorted out a mess made by the Conservatives, some of the mud will stick with them. I am also hugely frustrated that the Right wing sceptics think Britain came somehow set the clock back to Victorian times and we will live in some golden era of prosperity whereas the sceptics on the Left rightly see the EU as a capitalist instrument but seem too dumb to realise that the Left / Socialists within the EU could work with each other to counter this and bring about an era of Internationalism. The fourth problem is that I think another referendum will see Brexit rejected by a very significant margin as people now realise that it is unlikely to work and if it happens everyone will lose out. There is no point proceeding with it. My final gripe is that the Conservatives are causing serious social harm to society and that very little is being done to address the environment because all MPs are concentrating on speculating about unlikely theories as to how Brexit will pan out to the detriment of running the country.

I just feel that we are being let down by really mediocre politicians. We have never had a Prime Minster as incompetent as Theresa May and Jeremy Corbyn seem inert when he should be putting Neo-Liberalism to the sword. As far as the likes of Rees-Mogg, Johnson and Farage are concerned, it is a great shame that they cannot be locked away. These politicians are the enemies of the people and far more dangerous than most people imagine. The country needs someone with imagination and vision to address the significant issues of the day. I am not surprised that smaller parties have done well in this week's elections but the likes of Corbyn need to be more imaginative and convincing people that capitalism has now failed. Shame he is too indecisive.

 

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Laurel and Hardy, but not funny.

 

A whole load of recycling videos, including recycling plastics, and how one or two countries go, or don't go about it. Might include a video or two that FLT alluded to:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/busin...u-sort-your-rubbish-into-seven-different-bags

 

It has been suggested that he was advised that it might not look great, that he voted well away from his constituency, in a local election that his constituents that didn't get to vote in!!

 

Yes TSS... the first video is the city in Sweden I referred too last week. Thanks.

 

So 30,000 (as reported on BBC) spoiled votes leads you to the first conclusion?

Second paragraph. I agree both remain parties made gains. I was one that voted for them Second part of the paragrapah "both Brexit supporting parties" ignores that they aren't Brexit supporting parties and rafts of leavers voted in all directions other than "both Brexit supporting parties. I can only assume you mean Tory and Labour in your "both." If you mean UKIP and Tory.........we already know why people won't vote UKIP en masse.

The analysis of "remain parties making huge gains" will be very easy to see if it is true in 2 weeks time. If true then the Lib Dems will be looking forward to repeating their 19% of the vote....are you feeling confident of that?

 

That'll be why we're constantly told that 80% of voters at the last GE supported parties promising to deliver Brexit, I assume. Both the Tories and Labour are leave parties (with dissenters inside).

Vin

 

The Mendip ward of Bath & North East Somerset Council, which includes Jacob Rees-Mogg’s village of West Harptree, now has a Lib Dem councillor for the first time ever. That wasn’t a signal to the fanatical leader of the ERG to “get on with Brexit”, he’s been doing his best. That was a protest against Brexit.

Yes, I meant both Tory and Labour, because they both said in their 2017 manifestos that they would implement Brexit. In my view that makes them Brexit supporting parties. I am an example of a Labour voter who will not support them until Corbyn shifts his stance on a second referendum, and I know that many other people have taken the same view.

 

Lots of pundits once again kept in business interpreting - or more likely misinterpreting - the significance of voting patterns.

All we know for certain from these local elections is, the governing party got a spectacular drubbing, and the main opposition party completely failed to capitalise. Anything else is guess work.

As for determining how the public position on Brexit might have shifted in the last 3 years, there is only one way to determine that.

 

FIGHT!!!!!!!!!!

 

Promised in 2017 is much different to them being. People voted for parties that promised and are now not voting for them because they are showing their promises were worth nothing.

 

Should I remind people of the stance of all the main parties before the referendum? They all clearly wanted to remain!!!! No doubt all had some differing members. The people decided other wise. Which went against what the main parties wanted. That is the dilemma that all parties have to deal with. The fact that the EU has not made it easy is understandable and predictable. Because if the Brits exit........trust me others will too!!

 

Saw this on twitter earlier which made me chuckle. Is that who I think it is with arms folded looking out of the window?

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That's been the case ever since voting began. Especially in the FPTP system. Personally, I can't exactly remember when I was last represented by anyone in parliament. Conservative governments never represent the majority of people, by design, and they certainly have never represented me.

Very true, all parties were Remain parties before the referendum, Beddy. I believe, officially they still are. But, as for member countries wishing to leave the EU, that's a fallacy. None of them actually want to leave. They know they are better off being in the European Union. In fact, countries wish to get in. The point is, member countries wish to change the way the EU runs. Doing things the right way, bringing change from within.

As for the result of the referendum, I maintain that there was no great call for leaving the EU. A majority of 4% is a result that could have been overturned and back on a weekly basis. If the vote had been 75-25% or even 66-33% it would have been all over by now and the UK would have exited on time.
A badly informed public blamed the Establishment position, which was deflected onto the EU, because of the nature of the vote. Independent experts and economists all said for the UK not to be silly enough to exit the EU. In response, the UK public were advised not to believe the experts. Honestly, if you can't trust independent experts in the field then you are truly doomed.

Really the dissatisfaction was, and remains with, the present Tory government. And they only have themselves to blame amid their arrogance at putting party politics before the country's interest. I remember that UN envoy Philip Alston recently produced a report finding that the majority of the UK working population have been unnecessarily squeezed by austerity for a decade. https://www.ohchr.org/Documents/Issues/Poverty/EOM_GB_16Nov2018.pdf
This is where the real grievance lies. It's bugger all to do with sovereignty issues, or restricting freedom of movement, in the end. In the world's fifth largest economy, it's simply a matter of ordinary people feeling put upon yet again, ill-used and unrepresented.

 

Maybe the answer is for the European Union to consider the things that are causing problems in this and other countries. (Mainly the free movement of people over our boarders) Certainly Austria like us have a problem and a couple of others. Maybe that is a way to go. Or maybe make a special arrangement .......would that be so difficult?? Or have I misunderstood something?? Then have the referendum again it just might break the deadlock??

 

Is the free movement of people over our borders the main problem?

 

Not sure.....a lot seem to think so......or so I thought. Certainly a problem in Austria although I think that may be more to do with refugees. There is another country that has closed its borders although I forget who.