Top 4 and Run in
- Thread starter ToledoTrumpton
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Just Go to whoscored - He is the second best defender now after Koscielney, but has the 6th best rating in the team overall. He was in their premier league team of the season last season as well.
I really can't help that you see some kind of problem with Mustafi. All I can tell you, is that there isn't a shred of evidence to back up your point of view. The reason I know this, is that I have challenged people over and over again, and all I get back is the dumbest childish reasons, and outright lies.
Last season I was told he was responsible for so many of the goals we had let in, so I went back and looked at video of every single goal, and I found one where he was outjumped by Kane who did his leaning on the shoulder thing, and one where he and Cech had the mix up, which I still say was Cech's fault not his. Then I was told he was too short, and found he was our leading winner of aerials and headed clearances.
You are the ones making the assertion that he is some sort of liability. So prove it! I'm not wasting my time again. Surely you have something other than, "Because he looks funny when he falls over".
I don't care if he falls over funny. I prefer him to someone like Sokratis who is about 15% less effective statistically across the board, even if he falls over less often and doesn't look as funny when he does it.
For me this is just evidence of the Dunning Kruger effect. The only evidence is your high opinion of your own ability to judge players.
Toledo, first of all, can you please stop being so patronising in your posts? It becomes tiresome debating with you when you write with such misplaced arrogance. Stop replying to people like they are children.
Of course, you always have to be right, and everyone else is wrong. There is a reason why the majority of the Arsenal fanbase want Mustafi to be sold. There is a reason why most reliable journalists are saying the club have put him on the top of the transfer list. If the rumours are true that Emery and Sanllehi have told Mustafi he can leave in the Summer, would you say they are wrong in doing this?
The stats from Whoscored surprisingly give Mustafi an average rating of 7.04/10. To be honest, I am amazed that is the case and reaffirms my point that statistics do not paint the entire picture.
What the Whoscored statistics do not show is, for example, how many last ditch tackles he's had to make as a result of bad positioning, the quality (or not) of his clearances, whether he has had errors leading to chances on goal (but not necessarily leading directly to a goal), whether he rushes into decision-making, how often he gets turned by opposition strikers....these kind of things are difficult to quantify, so you need to observe with your eyes.
If you want to think he is good enough to help us be at the next level, that is your right. But please don't sit here and say to me that, for £35m, he has been worth the money paid for him.
He has been a poor signing. And it isn't just me who feels this way.
There are literally ex-players who have said they don't think he's of the calibre required, but I am sure you will dismiss their opinions too.
Why do you all always accuse me of what you yourselves are doing? All I can tell you is that I think Mustafi is worth every bit of 35M and without him we would be nowhere near the top 4. I think you guys have got in the habit of scapegoating players and thinking in the negative for so long under Wenger, that you can't get out of the habit.
If several people are saying that your posts come across as arrogant and passive aggressive, surely you should perhaps think about the way your convey your views, instead of blaming everyone else for the way they speak to you? Just a thought.
Anyway, like I said, you're entitled to your opinion. I respect it if that's what you genuinely believe. However, I think you're completely wrong on this.
Well, let's face it, I am not the majority here, so trying to accuse me of passive aggression is a little twisted. And yet another appeal to popularity, as an argument for your case, is hardly proving your point.
But you didn't answer my question. Why, when we are headed for a season result, better than expected, do you find it necessary to berate a player who clearly the manager is happy to rely on, and who you can only offer subjective criticism of? Why is it even necessary? Is it just habit? What do you get out of it?
I just genuinely don't understand. I get my kicks out of living vicariously through my sports heroes, and supporting them. It seems almost masochistic to run them into the ground, like you have self-esteem issues. Why do you want to live vicariously through someone who is inept?
The reason it bothers me, is because it consequently impacts on my enjoyment of supporting Arsenal. This isn't an intellectual exercise for me. it is probably why this forum is so badly attended, and why so few Arsenal fans dominate the team's social media. The silent majority of Arsenal fans don't want to even listen to this discussion.
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Hang on a second. Emery is not happy to rely on Mustafi. The only reason he started yesterday was because Koscielny was injured. If Holding hadn't unfortunately been on the receiving end of a season-ending injury, then Mustafi would be playing even less. Emery plays Mustafi out of necessity, because we have so few other options, not because he wants to.
Second of all, me criticising players does not mean I am not happy with the manager or the team generally speaking. But even if I wasn't happy, I should be allowed to express that opinion. No player or manager is above criticism, no matter if we are doing well or if we are doing poorly. Unless you think they are infallible.
So criticising a player (who makes frequent mistakes every game) means I don't support the club? I'm not following your logic here at all. If this is what you're saying, then it's very twisted logic at that.
Toledo, if other people's opinions on club personnel impacts your enjoyment of Arsenal, that is YOUR problem. Not mine. Not anyone else's. I would never let other people's opinions dictate how I feel about the club.
I'm not going to stay quiet just because you don't like other people's perspectives.
What the hell are you talking about?
You obviously get too emotional. The way you post is overly aggressive, patronizing and frankly just plain ridiculous.
I have no problem with you rating Mustafi. We come on the boards to debate after all. Nobody's 'berating a player for no reason'. The common opinion is that Mustafi is not good enough and I share that.
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Trying to explain why I have a problem with you and others running down or players, and why it isn't an emotional or intellectual decision, nor a matter of self-promotion. I think it is common with most fans. You go on another team's boards and start telling them their players are **** and they will not agree with you.
I still maintain there is something very odd and different about Arsenal fans in this regard. Probably a good masters project for some psychology graduate in it.
Well we did'nt do it back when we were winning things mainly for the reason our players were on the whole better. Although some players like 'Zinedine Cygan' got a bit of light-hearted stick even then.
To your point though I feel centre-back has been a problem position for close to 20 years now and Arsenal fans are particularly sensitive about dodgy defending. Under Wenger our defensive record was for the most part the biggest issue for us. (Pascal Cygan, Oleg Luzhny, Philip Senderos, Johan Djourou, Sylvestre, Gabriel Paulista, Squillaci etc. all come to mind for calamitous errors)
We conceded 51 league goals last Season. I think most of us just want to see Arsenal fielding TOP class defenders once more.
Here is the problem - Djourou went on to have a very distinguished career, notably in a swiss defence that was one of the most respected European international defences of recent times. None of the others played anything like as regularly for Arsenal as Mustafi, or was first choice at any point. You are being ridiculous likening him to them.
As for the 51 goals thing. You do realize that football is a team game. Just because a goalkeeper lets in 50 goals a season doesn't mean he is a crap goalkeeper. Same applies to defenders. More so because there are multiple defenders that need to rely on each other. I'm not saying that the defense had a good year, but if you are trying to pin the blame for that solely, or even largely on Mustafi, then you really are not demonstrating a very good knowledge of top-class football. It just doesn't work like that.
As for the 51 goals thing. You do realize that football is a team game. Just because a goalkeeper lets in 50 goals a season doesn't mean he is a crap goalkeeper. Same applies to defenders. More so because there are multiple defenders that need to rely on each other. I'm not saying that the defense had a good year, but if you are trying to pin the blame for that solely, or even largely on Mustafi, then you really are not demonstrating a very good knowledge of top-class football. It just doesn't work like that.
Hanover - Hamburger SV - Antalyspor - S.PA.L. That's Djourous post Arsenal career. He just was'nt that good.
It almost is that simple. Of course football is a team game. But when a side struggles to score you of course have to look at the forwards to improve the situation. The same goes for a defence. If we look back at the best defences in history. We think of teams who conceded few goals.
Anyway I'm not going to try and convince you. I dont think Mustafi will be a regular in the side beyond this Season. If we keep him beyond this Season he wont be much more than a squad player.
Would like to interrupt here for a brief moment to say that United just lost to Wolves.
A great result for us, and an equal warning as well since we still have to play at Molineux - they are definitely no push overs.
A great result for us, and an equal warning as well since we still have to play at Molineux - they are definitely no push overs.
Heh hehFunny as **** that both Spurs and Utd ****ed themselves over with OG's this week
The most worrying thing that I have heard about Mistafi is what Martin Keon (he has played some football) once said: it is a bit scary to be a Mustafi centre back partner, because he plays for himself, not for his partner and it is easy to find yourself let down and in a tight situation. That was such a damning remark, my jaw dropped.
Maybe, and I get that. I'm not saying the guy is above criticism. But I'm not sure it is quite as damning as you think either. I actually don't think the stats tell a "True" story of his performances. But for me, this tells me that Arsenal are using Mustafi in an unusual way.
Given how strong Emery has been with Ozil, do you really think Mustafi would be playing the way he is without Emery's approval? The way our defence is playing is absolutely to Emery's plan.
IMHO It is both padding Mustafi's stats and leaving him reaching, stranded and looking foolish sometimes in equal measure. I don't think for a second, either have anything to do with ability. I think he is playing to orders and he has been told to close down, step up and gamble at every opportunity.
For me, the telling thing was the United game when Mustafi was out, Sokratis took his place and played the game like a Mustafi clone. He got caught out several times and played like a wild man. And he topped the stats defensively. But United did not score, because he hustled the **** out of them.
The press isn't just about the midfield or the forwards. You hustle and press with your sparse defenders even when the other team are on the break. Deny them time and space and they will rush that final pass or the shot on goal.
We always have 1 defender, whether we are playing 3 or 2 CBs, who plays conservatively and the others are told to step up - all the time.
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We will have to perform far better than we did today if we want top 4.
Spineless performance.
If we play like that against Watford, we will get battered. They are going to be buzzing after reaching the FA Cup final.
And I also think they will play both Gray and Deeney - two old-fashioned, physical strikers who work hard and put themselves about. Against Mustafi and Koscielny. Lol. That will be fun.
The good news is that Torreira and Xhaka should be available for that game, but the bad news is that Sokratis will serve a two-game suspension and will miss the Watford and Palace matches.
Just when we get players back, we begin to miss others.
Either way, we need everyone to step up for the remaining games now. We cannot afford passengers.
I thought Elneny would have shown that he could offer us another option in midfield, but he was non-existent and I doubt he will be relied on again.
Spineless performance.
If we play like that against Watford, we will get battered. They are going to be buzzing after reaching the FA Cup final.
And I also think they will play both Gray and Deeney - two old-fashioned, physical strikers who work hard and put themselves about. Against Mustafi and Koscielny. Lol. That will be fun.
The good news is that Torreira and Xhaka should be available for that game, but the bad news is that Sokratis will serve a two-game suspension and will miss the Watford and Palace matches.
Just when we get players back, we begin to miss others.
Either way, we need everyone to step up for the remaining games now. We cannot afford passengers.
I thought Elneny would have shown that he could offer us another option in midfield, but he was non-existent and I doubt he will be relied on again.
We missed Xhaka today IMO. We never attack as well when we don't have someone who can move the ball forward out of defence quickly. Used to have the same problem when Cazorla was out. It was ponderous today. Ozil was having to drop deep to get the ball. Kolasinac wasn't getting in behind. It was just a mess. Was a little better when Ramsey came on, but you can't win if you don't score a goal.
I know everyone is focused on our defensive woes, but I prefer to lose a game 4-3 than lose like we did today.