Team orders by McLaren at Monza?

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AbsolutelyGlorious said:
He sounded really shifty when he said that.
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I got my detective on and...

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They also showed all of his final lap and there were no mistakes, plus it looked like he would of got a good tow from Webber on the final straight.
 
The only explanation I can think of is that because Vettel was so strong in sector 3 Button needed a bigger gap from sector 1 and 2 to make up for the loss in sector 3 than he had. However even if that was true the gap to Hamilton was so small he could of easily had a chance at P2, and because tyre wear is so low at Monza a few extra feet and then an in lap is not really going to have a massive impact on the tyres.
 
Mifune said:
I got my detective on and...

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They also showed all of his final lap and there were no mistakes, plus it looked like he would of got a good tow from Webber on the final straight.
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AG's post: SEE HERE shows that last time round Buttons time at S2 was 54.9. He may have been up on Vettel but he was slower than his best time, and as we saw Vettel was immense in S3
 
BrightLampShade said:
AG's post: SEE HERE shows that last time round Buttons time at S2 was 54.9. He may have been up on Vettel but he was slower than his best time, and as we saw Vettel was immense in S3
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His sector 2 time was better than his first sector 2 time though, Vettel was out of reach but surely Hamilton was easily in reach?
 
Mifune said:
His sector 2 time was better than his first sector 2 time though, Vettel was out of reach but surely Hamilton was easily in reach?
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Let's see onboard footage of Button's journey up the straight and including Parabolica.

Who knows, he might have hit the limiter or locked a brake on the way in or something. People are really jumping to conclusions here.
 
Mifune said:
His sector 2 time was better than his first sector 2 time though, Vettel was out of reach but surely Hamilton was easily in reach?
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first time it was 27.9?
second time it was 27.888

which is basically the same. We'll never know if he could have beaten Hamilton, but he had the data on the steering wheel and he made the choice with the team. This is quite a weird debate by the way <laugh>
 
Mifune said:
The only explanation I can think of is that because Vettel was so strong in sector three Button needed a bigger gap from sector 1 and 2 to make up for the loss in sector 3 than he had. However even if that was true the gap to Hamilton was so small he could of easily had a chance at P2, and because tyre wear is so low at Monza a few extra feet and then an in lap is not really going to have a massive impact on the tyres.
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Yes. I completely agree Mifune.
This is precisely my conclusion: that he chose to save his tyres from an extra lap. If he is on a different strategy to Hamilton, he may well take the longer view - as is his wont - that being ahead of his team mate will not be of any help*. Bear in mind that he takes longer to get heat into his tyres and that he is realistic about Hamilton: i.e. that it is likely he believes Hamilton will pose a more significant threat to Vettel in the first few laps.

*He may also allow himself the slim hope that Hamilton and Vettel have a 'coming together', thus leaving him to stealth! - But of course he wouldn't say such a thing&#8230;
 
Jenson first run 2 sectors - 27.055, 27.888.
Jenson second run 2 sectors - 27.158, 27.888.

He lost 0.103 in the first sector and at sector 2 he was still 0.103 down on his time which is why he aborted his Q3 lap. He was also 0.087 down on Lewis' first run when he reached sector 2. Hope that helps.
 
TheModestMatt said:
Jenson first run 2 sectors - 27.055, 27.888.
Jenson second run 2 sectors - 27.158, 27.888.

He lost 0.103 in the first sector and at sector 2 he was still 0.103 down on his time which is why he aborted his Q3 lap. He was also 0.087 down on Lewis' first run when he reached sector 2. Hope that helps.
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His first sector two time was 27.927.

Vettel was certainly out of reach and I think if Button has continued he would of had a chance at getting P2, it just depends what his race plan is and what is more beneficial to him, slightly fresher tyres or an (potential) extra grid place.
 
Not the first time that Button's done this. Okay, he's not allowed to beat The Annointed One in any way, but it doesn't make sense for McLaren to torpedo any of his laps, as he'd still have to give way during the race. It is an odd occurence.
 
Jenson Button said:
Yeah, I mean the first run in Q3 was pretty good. I was pretty happy with it. But I felt I could go a little bit more, maybe a tenth or so, but I didn't get a great first sector and I just carried that all the way through the lap so I was a tenth-and-a-half down. I knew through the last corner, the previous lap was perfect through there, so I looked down at the speed and just pulled into the pits knowing that I was a tenth-and-a-half off my best.
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The live timing was to vettel not to his previous lap so he simply must have been 3 tenths quicker than vettel in the first two last time. Still seems odd since he didn't have to improve by much to better Hamilton, but there is no conspiracy
 
Julius Caesar said:
The live timing was to vettel not to his previous lap so he simply must have been 3 tenths quicker than vettel in the first two last time. Still seems odd since he didn't have to improve by much to better Hamilton, but there is no conspiracy
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I never suspected a conspiracy I just wondered what the reason was and it appears you have found it <applause>, he must of known he would not be able to better his sector 3 time by enough, although I wonder what the tow from Webber would of brought.
 
my thoughts were McLaren saw that no-one behind him was gonna get ahead of him by the split times so they decided to pit him to save an extra lap of good performance at the start of the race.
 
cosicave said:


Hmm&#8230; Not quite the same thing Mephisto.
Massa did not compromise his own time by towing Alonso (which increases the possibility of other team's drivers - not just Alonso - being quicker). What we saw with Ferrari's formation flying was the hope that the combined times of the Ferrari drivers would be more competitive (Massa's unaffected and Alonso's improved). The only thing that was compromised was Massa's capacity to beat his team mate but unfortunately for most viewers - and Brazilians in particular - that doesn't matter to Ferrari&#8230;
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My post was a bit tongue in cheek cosi although towing Alonso around did put an extra lap (unnecessarily) on his tyres and if it wasn't team orders why was Massa the carrot? Not that I'm calling Alonso a donkey of course.
 
Miggins said:
my thoughts were McLaren saw that no-one behind him was gonna get ahead of him by the split times so they decided to pit him to save an extra lap of good performance at the start of the race.
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But he won't start the race on those tyres. I didn't really suspect anything untoward until I saw JB's interview with Lee McKenzie, he started talking faster and looked down and to the left when explaining why he aborted the lap. Second successive race where he's had a bizarre qualifying and they haven't given a straight answer as to why it happened. <confused>
 
Perhaps McLaren want Jenson behind Lewis because they know Lewis is liable to crash into Vettal with an over zealous first lap move and they don't want JB involved :grin:
 
Oh right that puts a different slant on things Ron's definitely pro Hamilton and Martin is definitely pro Button, but Ron outranks Martin.

Very interesting, but stupid
 
Blimey... conspiracy much?

Jenson is actually in a better starting position than Lewis. I was actually hoping Jenson would bump Hamilton.

If you think they'd tell Button to abort for the sake of Hamilton and believe that Jenson would actually pit, I'd say you're paying him a disservice.
 
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