Off Topic Politics Thread

[VocalMinority]

Is there a limit to how many times the same proposal can be voted on? Seems crazy there is another vote next week on the same proposal that was voted down this week and earlier this year.

There's only a limit if it's a referendum that would actually give an answer to this entire mess where significant changes have been made since the original and there's an actual chance of a change of outcome.

If it's a vote that May wants passed then no limit.

 

[Brinkworth Saint]

There's only a limit if it's a referendum that would actually give an answer to this entire mess where significant changes have been made since the original and there's an actual chance of a change of outcome.

If it's a vote that May wants passed then no limit.

Strictly speaking 29/3/2019 is the limit, as things stand legally.

 

[Onionman]

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What a genuine triumph for our fearless Secretary of State for International Trade. We're out of trouble now!

Vin

 

[Onionman]

So in a vote moments ago our tragic excuse for representatives have voted against taking control of Brexit from this ****show of a government. What a shower.

Vin

 

[tomw24]

So in a vote moments ago our tragic excuse for representatives have voted against taking control of Brexit from this ****show of a government. What a shower.

Vin

That would have made matters worse.

 

[Onionman]

That would have made matters worse.

What makes you think that?

Vin

 

[Schad]

So, Brexit is to be paused until...who the **** knows when.

 

[Brinkworth Saint]

What makes you think that?

Vin

From my view I cannot see any group sufficiently organised other than the government making anything happen at all. I appreciate that does not say much(!), but quite honestly none of the opposing parties to the deal on the table have the remotest idea on what to do next. It may be unopular to say this but Mrs May has an almost impossible job here and no-one seems the least bit interested in trying to bring about a concensus. The ERG are as likely as not to fail in their decades long desire to leave the EU with their take on things at present. Corbyn doesn't seem to know what's going on even on his own backbenches and amongst the rest is a scrabble to see if they can get a spot on Newsnight or similar programme and tell us what cannot be done. The entire political establishment at present is doing itself no favours and certainly letting the country down badly.
The uncertainty needs to end, get the deal agreed over the line, get businesses a line to follow and let's get on with what really needs doing in this country, there are plenty of things to do!!

 

[I Sorry I Ruined The Party]

Some of those who supposedly want to stay in the EU are sort of secretly manipulating things so as to not have to vote to stay in the EU. Some of the people who want to leave the EU are sort of secretly manipulating things to so as to not have to vote to leave the EU.

It's kind of funny when you think about it.

 

[ImpSaint]

The Tories clearly not giving a single **** about the Parliament to which they want to return control.

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Vin

Notice that the picture obscures the near left where the ERG sit!!!! So it may well be a nice meme to talk about "Tories" but all it actually shows is that the government (front bench and backwards from the despatch box) couldn't give a fig.

 

[ImpSaint]

Is there a limit to how many times the same proposal can be voted on? Seems crazy there is another vote next week on the same proposal that was voted down this week and earlier this year.

The media and government insiders are the ones pushing a 3rd vote as if it is just a case of keep returning it. In the real world Bercow is stating that it will not come back for a 3rd vote if it is just the same thing as already voted on!!

So the point we are at so far is parliament has voted against the deal, it has voted against no deal, it has now voted against having a 2nd referendum. Not sure what is left but you guys will be begging with "please, please revoke".........which would also get voted against.

 

[ImpSaint]

In theory there is. A Labour MP earlier pointed out the number of times in history Speakers have prevented exactly the same motion being brought in more than once, let alone 3 or 4 times. If the government try and bring the same thing in next week as is rumoured, I await a procedural move to try and prevent it.

Already reported this morning Bercow is voicing that if it is the same deal then he wouldn't allow a 3rd vote. It is the BBC and government payroll pushing the idea they can just keep on bringing it back until it goes through.

 

[ImpSaint]

Some of those who supposedly want to stay in the EU are sort of secretly manipulating things so as to not have to vote to stay in the EU. Some of the people who want to leave the EU are sort of secretly manipulating things to so as to not have to vote to leave the EU.

It's kind of funny when you think about it.

Good analysis there. I would say though that the remainers are intentionally doing so while the leavers aren't because they don't consider the deal leaving. They might also accidentally end up remaining through their actions.

 

[San Tejón]

From my view I cannot see any group sufficiently organised other than the government making anything happen at all. I appreciate that does not say much(!), but quite honestly none of the opposing parties to the deal on the table have the remotest idea on what to do next. It may be unopular to say this but Mrs May has an almost impossible job here and no-one seems the least bit interested in trying to bring about a concensus. The ERG are as likely as not to fail in their decades long desire to leave the EU with their take on things at present. Corbyn doesn't seem to know what's going on even on his own backbenches and amongst the rest is a scrabble to see if they can get a spot on Newsnight or similar programme and tell us what cannot be done. The entire political establishment at present is doing itself no favours and certainly letting the country down badly.
The uncertainty needs to end, get the deal agreed over the line, get businesses a line to follow and let's get on with what really needs doing in this country, there are plenty of things to do!!

You are wrong about the opposing parties not having the remotest idea on what to do next.
Labour’s Brexit proposal is well documented and has been warmly received by the EU, as something they could work with.
It would also be the best Brexit for the country, as in being the least destructive.

 

[ChilcoSaint]

From my view I cannot see any group sufficiently organised other than the government making anything happen at all. I appreciate that does not say much(!), but quite honestly none of the opposing parties to the deal on the table have the remotest idea on what to do next. It may be unopular to say this but Mrs May has an almost impossible job here and no-one seems the least bit interested in trying to bring about a concensus. The ERG are as likely as not to fail in their decades long desire to leave the EU with their take on things at present. Corbyn doesn't seem to know what's going on even on his own backbenches and amongst the rest is a scrabble to see if they can get a spot on Newsnight or similar programme and tell us what cannot be done. The entire political establishment at present is doing itself no favours and certainly letting the country down badly.
The uncertainty needs to end, get the deal agreed over the line, get businesses a line to follow and let's get on with what really needs doing in this country, there are plenty of things to do!!

Not sure where you get the knowledge that Corbyn doesn’t know what’s going on from. The government have tried and failed twice to get May’s deal through and now they plan to bring it, unchanged, to the HoC yet again next week, in the hope that Labour or some group of their own backbenchers will blink. Assuming it fails again, who else but a cross-party Group is left to sort the mess out? It’s what should have happened 2 years ago, and we wouldn’t be in this mess if it had.

May didn’t have an impossible job, she has made it impossible by her own stupidity and intransigence.

 

[ImpSaint]

You are wrong about the opposing parties not having the remotest idea on what to do next.
Labour’s Brexit proposal is well documented and has been warmly received by the EU, as something they could work with.
It would also be the best Brexit for the country, as in being the least destructive.

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[San Tejón]

On a separate point.
We’re we to rescind Article 50, how long does it take?
Is it just handingover a written statement or is it more involved?
If the latter have we left enough time to do that?

 

[ImpSaint]

On a separate point.
We’re we to rescind Article 50, how long does it take?
Is it just handingover a written statement or is it more involved?
If the latter have we left enough time to do that?

It would have to pass a vote and then a formal letter sent. Basically would just happen as soon as voted on. Officially have to wait for legalities to go through but it would be done and dusted on that vote.

I suspect if that vote looked like going through then Tory leavers would dangle a carrot in front of Corbyn in abstaining from a confidence vote. And I doubt Corbyn would be able to resist that.

 

[Brinkworth Saint]

You are wrong about the opposing parties not having the remotest idea on what to do next.
Labour’s Brexit proposal is well documented and has been warmly received by the EU, as something they could work with.
It would also be the best Brexit for the country, as in being the least destructive.

Sorry, but my view is having read their stuff and listened to Starmer and co, they have not got a plan that will work, even they're own people know that. By opposing parties I also include groups of shared interest of which there are many and too varied to name. The EU will agree to anything that means they frustrate the original vote.

 

[ChilcoSaint]

On a separate point.
We’re we to rescind Article 50, how long does it take?
Is it just handingover a written statement or is it more involved?
If the latter have we left enough time to do that?

The 1972 Common Market Act has been repealed, so the repeal needs to be repealed. I think that’s about it for a complete revocation of Article 50, it’s a lot less complicated than an extension.