Off Topic Politics Thread

[The Ides of March]

Good Morning/Afternoon Guys

Two days after the defining momento in British politics. Can Chuka et al replicate what Macron did in France, and come from "nowhere" and form the next Government? Would be wonderful to see the Conservatives and Labour smashed to pieces and Chuka and friends forming the next Government. That is my dream. But then again, pigs are more likely to be seen flying in the sky over Hampshire, and SFC are likely to avoid relegation next season, as well as this.

The group is up to 11. Come on MPs from all parties. Do the decent thing, abandon Labour and the Conservatives / we need about 290 more, then a new Government can be formed without the need for a GE. With the aid of the SNP and PC, plus Lib Dems and Green, we can jettison Brexit. Is this our Macron moment?

 

[The Ides of March]

I suspect that Boeing will have one eye on Airbus. Large American companies are experts at consuming failing competitors, something I once experienced.

Is that a "bear" market or the other one Imps? Financial World Tonight.

 

[StJabbo]

Good Morning/Afternoon Guys

Two days after the defining momento in British politics. Can Chuka et al replicate what Macron did in France, and come from "nowhere" and form the next Government? Would be wonderful to see the Conservatives and Labour smashed to pieces and Chuka and friends forming the next Government. That is my dream. But then again, pigs are more likely to be seen flying in the sky over Hampshire, and SFC are likely to avoid relegation next season, as well as this.

The group is up to 11. Come on MPs from all parties. Do the decent thing, abandon Labour and the Conservatives / we need about 290 more, then a new Government can be formed without the need for a GE. With the aid of the SNP and PC, plus Lib Dems and Green, we can jettison Brexit. Is this our Macron moment?

Lets throw in PR to, to really get the flocking pork on the wing.

 

[ImpSaint]

Good Morning/Afternoon Guys

Two days after the defining momento in British politics. Can Chuka et al replicate what Macron did in France, and come from "nowhere" and form the next Government? Would be wonderful to see the Conservatives and Labour smashed to pieces and Chuka and friends forming the next Government. That is my dream. But then again, pigs are more likely to be seen flying in the sky over Hampshire, and SFC are likely to avoid relegation next season, as well as this.

The group is up to 11. Come on MPs from all parties. Do the decent thing, abandon Labour and the Conservatives / we need about 290 more, then a new Government can be formed without the need for a GE. With the aid of the SNP and PC, plus Lib Dems and Green, we can jettison Brexit. Is this our Macron moment?

Do you write for NewsThump? You should, I do like your satire.

 

[ImpSaint]

Is that a "bear" market or the other one Imps? Financial World Tonight.

Not sure what you mean here. I suspect Boeing would love nothing more than being able to take Airbus out of the picture.

 

[Archers Road]

Yes, let's have the comprehensive list of benifits. Query to Imps to. Come on chaps there must be some positives for leaving?

Straight bananas

 

[saintrichie123]

Blue passports

 

[Archers Road]

It's an individual perspective, it will be worth it for me to be outside of the EU. I guess many others thought the same way. This is political for me and yes the consequences for commerce are real which is why we should have stuck to the EEC format. What's so great about Brussels control?

Give me one example of where Brussels has excercised control over your life?

 

[Archers Road]

Blue passports

Made in France

 

[VocalMinority]

So people are now trying to say the Japan deal is good (I'm not arguing there) yet trying to pin the effects of that deal down to Brexit and not the deal itself?

These car manufacturers would have made these decisions anyway because there is no point in them investing in the EU (as someone seems to think above) because in 7 or so years time they will be able to ship their product in without tariffs.

Why invest heavily in the EU (or UK) if they don't need to invest any longer to gain access?

In Honda's case they "only" sold 125k cars to the EU last year (including us.) A perfect storm of it being a declining market for them as well as the move to electrification + the Japan deal means that they have to decide massive future investment now to turn their cars electric. Do they make them in a part of the world they are declining in sales even when they don;t need to build them anymore? or do they focus on where the market is (or is going to be?) US and China?

They can serve the EU market from Japan while investing in China/US.

Like Beddy. I voted out because of layers and layers of politicians/governments/intranational bodies riding roughshod over real people's lives and just saying "modernity, pfft." This is no excuse to cover for them treating people like commodities and driving wholesale migration for no other reason that to keep lab our prices down.

That the EU itself is a stubborn group of very differing countries, all resistant to waking up to the modern world, all trying to defend an outdated creaking product (as a whole) trying to depend on digital money moving around to survive within an organisation that absolutely refuses to change is enough for me without any particular politicians and their dreams of federalisation.

There is no point banging on about FTAs or globalisation being a good thing within Europe yet then try and pillory Brexiteers who want to develop UK specific FTAs.

The Japan FTA is good? Then stop going on about Japanese car manufacturers in the UK because that FTA is the main driver of that not Brexit.

Defending a block that talks about the future yet is so focused on protecting and continuing an outdated and failing base of industries within its block is crazy. The fact that it is a block at war with each other's ideals yet a body above talks about unity is even more ridiculous.

I've never said we would see an immediate boost we might never get to where economists "say we would have been" but in 10 years time we will be better than what we see happening to the EU in 10 year's time because they will still be trying to pretend they are the future and they will still be trying to compete with the world with their outdated practices.

I've been made redundant twice in my lifetime. Both times from the last time this problem hit us. When our outdated engineering industries drew their last breaths in the mid nineties. And then when a family business grew massively but failed to move on from being a family business.

This is what I see now in Europe. An outdated model that refuses to accept that they are outdated. Relies on nice spiel. Drives people to migrate to lower costs and sells it as being a great thing for people. Nothing to do with people all to do with £/$. And has got to the point where it's refusal to accept the model is broken that it relies almost solely now and low cost consumables and theoretical money moving around.

The EU will collapse on itself in the next 2 decades and while they will still be crowing about unity, solidarity and how "powerful" they are we will have a head start. A head start that hopefully (not that I am convinced) will give us a head start to properly sort this country to be able to compete in the modern world.

This is why there is such a power grab going on for banking and financial services. Because the whole of the EU will have nothing else but "legal" money laundering to earn from if it continues to think it is the billy big B****x.

All this talk of leavers dreaming of Empire is a totally ironic projection from EU supporters that bang on about the EU being this great trading block when it is failing. They will still be spieling out the same BS when the EU "empire" is crumbling and about to crash.

I can't be bothered to read most of that but scanning it it's most just bollocks you've dreamed up so I'll just respond to the first paragraph.

The problem with Brexit and the EU’s deal with Japan is that we have lost the positive effects of the deal and kept the negative ones due to Brexit. Centralising production in a single location is more efficient. The lack of trade tariffs mean that companies in EU and Japan no longer need to worry as much about splitting their industry and can have a base in the EU to supply the whole of the EU and Japan, or in Japan to supply the same which is more cost effective for both. At a time when the industry is struggling this will help offset these problems. This translates to cheaper/better products and more jobs. Or in the current climate, less chance of the manufacturing and jobs being lost.

Of course we are no longer in the EU so companies can’t set up a base here and no get tariffs to the EU (in the event of no deal which I believe you are supporting). So if the want to supply the EU and Japan, they will set up in the EU. And our economy alone isn’t much of an incentive to set up/maintain manufacturing just to supply to the UK. So it becomes more beneficial to set up in the EU and supply us through the tariffs increasing prices for UK citizens. So we still have the problem of industry moving but don’t get any of these positive effects, just the negatives.

If we want to set up our own trade deals, we will have to abide with the regulations the EU set in order to enter the market. Except we will have lost control over those regulations which we had while in the EU.




TL;DR

The EU have created a deal that gives Japan and the EU a competitive advantage over its rivals, and we just changed from being the EU to being the rival.

 

[Osvaldorama]

Fair enough Osvaldo...... I do understand how you feel and respect that. I’m guessing though in your life time as an adult you have not experienced not being in the EU. Why do you think the French...bless them.... did their utmost to keep us out-after the initial on set of the common market? Under De Gaull they were at the time enjoying being the dominating country. We could not join the common market at the outset because of our agreements for aid etc at the time. These agreements finished in 1955. We applied as we had agreed as soon as. The French said non and kept saying non !! (I’m not entirely sure what their reasons were to be honest) The truth is we did pretty well without them. Yes we.had our ups and downs agreed but non the less we began to want for nothing. What’s more we were trading with nearly all the eu markets as was albeit only on certain things. We joined a common market eventually and all did very well out of it.
In truth I was against joining mainly for personal reasons. We all were doing ok until they started being more political and in my view bribing some countries to join with promises of aid. Then they decided we could only deal with certain countries etc and we went along with it !!!
We put thousands of commonwealth workers out of work at the time because we could not trade directly. They in turn did not have agreements with EU. It didn’t bother our governments of the time as it wasn’t our problem! For some it took nearly 5 years to negotiate trade agreements with EU.
I will never forgive the Our government or the EU for that and nothing anyone will/can say will change my mind. We can match Europe if not better than them given time. I’m not against having open boarders or the need to trade with them. However I want us to govern ourselves and not be dominated by other countries.

The thing is, people with your opinion are cutting the countries nose off to spite our face.

I think all of us can see that there are problems with the EU. It isn’t a perfect eutopia. But we have benefitted massively by being a part of it.


https://www.ft.com/content/202a60c0-cfd8-11e5-831d-09f7778e7377

This is article points out where we were when we joined, and how far we have risen since joining.

Is the EU unfair on some countries? Probably. But who cares when we are a major beneficiary.

We will now be one of those small nations that the EU is “unfair” on!!!

It’s utterly crazy.

 

[saintrichie123]

Made in France

 

[StJabbo]

Blue passports

Edit suggestion, drop the first p

 

[VocalMinority]

Fair enough Osvaldo...... I do understand how you feel and respect that. I’m guessing though in your life time as an adult you have not experienced not being in the EU. Why do you think the French...bless them.... did their utmost to keep us out-after the initial on set of the common market? Under De Gaull they were at the time enjoying being the dominating country. We could not join the common market at the outset because of our agreements for aid etc at the time. These agreements finished in 1955. We applied as we had agreed as soon as. The French said non and kept saying non !! (I’m not entirely sure what their reasons were to be honest) The truth is we did pretty well without them. Yes we.had our ups and downs agreed but non the less we began to want for nothing. What’s more we were trading with nearly all the eu markets as was albeit only on certain things. We joined a common market eventually and all did very well out of it.
In truth I was against joining mainly for personal reasons. We all were doing ok until they started being more political and in my view bribing some countries to join with promises of aid. Then they decided we could only deal with certain countries etc and we went along with it !!!
We put thousands of commonwealth workers out of work at the time because we could not trade directly. They in turn did not have agreements with EU. It didn’t bother our governments of the time as it wasn’t our problem! For some it took nearly 5 years to negotiate trade agreements with EU.
I will never forgive the Our government or the EU for that and nothing anyone will/can say will change my mind. We can match Europe if not better than them given time. I’m not against having open boarders or the need to trade with them. However I want us to govern ourselves and not be dominated by other countries.

So are you going to forgive yourself for voting to do the same thing to EU citizens that you say the EU did to commonwealth citizens? At least joining the EU was a net creator of jobs unlike this.

Also they will dominate us more when we're out of the EU, as you should be able to tell from these negotiations alone.

Feels like you're a turkey voting for Christmas to me.

 

[rednright]

Give me one example of where Brussels has excercised control over your life?

Give me one example of where Brussels has excercised control over your life?

OJEU regulations

 

[StJabbo]

So are you going to forgive yourself for voting to do the same thing to EU citizens that you say the EU did to commonwealth citizens? At least joining the EU was a net creator of jobs unlike this.

Also they will dominate us more when we're out of the EU, as you should be able to tell from these negotiations alone.

Feels like you're a turkey voting for Christmas to me.

The majority of turkeys in a recent poll said they thought Christmas was a pain in the arse

 

[The Ides of March]

Not sure what you mean here. I suspect Boeing would love nothing more than being able to take Airbus out of the picture.

There are two kinds of markets on the Stock Exchange, a bear market and a bull market. With Boeing sniffing to remove Airbus by a takeover, {an aggressive move if not favoured by Airbus shareholders}, it constitutes a ____________ market.

 

[Beddy]

So are you going to forgive yourself for voting to do the same thing to EU citizens that you say the EU did to commonwealth citizens? At least joining the EU was a net creator of jobs unlike this.

Also they will dominate us more when we're out of the EU, as you should be able to tell from these negotiations alone.

Feels like you're a turkey voting for Christmas to me.

The EU are telling us UK leaving won’t affect them a anyway. !!

 

[ImpSaint]

I can't be bothered to read most of that but scanning it it's most just bollocks you've dreamed up so I'll just respond to the first paragraph.

The problem with Brexit and the EU’s deal with Japan is that we have lost the positive effects of the deal and kept the negative ones due to Brexit. Centralising production in a single location is more efficient. The lack of trade tariffs mean that companies in EU and Japan no longer need to worry as much about splitting their industry and can have a base in the EU to supply the whole of the EU and Japan, or in Japan to supply the same which is more cost effective for both. At a time when the industry is struggling this will help offset these problems. This translates to cheaper/better products and more jobs. Or in the current climate, less chance of the manufacturing and jobs being lost.

Of course we are no longer in the EU so companies can’t set up a base here and no get tariffs to the EU (in the event of no deal which I believe you are supporting). So if the want to supply the EU and Japan, they will set up in the EU. And our economy alone isn’t much of an incentive to set up/maintain manufacturing just to supply to the UK. So it becomes more beneficial to set up in the EU and supply us through the tariffs increasing prices for UK citizens. So we still have the problem of industry moving but don’t get any of these positive effects, just the negatives.

If we want to set up our own trade deals, we will have to abide with the regulations the EU set in order to enter the market. Except we will have lost control over those regulations which we had while in the EU.




TL;DR

The EU have created a deal that gives Japan and the EU a competitive advantage over its rivals, and we just changed from being the EU to being the rival.

You accuse me of making things up yet you present a picture where Japanese companies might build in the EU to export rather than in Japan as a realistic thing. Great selling point? Do you actually believe that this is going to happen?

 

[ImpSaint]

There are two kinds of markets on the Stock Exchange, a bear market and a bull market. With Boeing sniffing to remove Airbus by a takeover, {an aggressive move if not favoured by Airbus shareholders}, it constitutes a ____________ market.

I understand that. What're you meaning by it? If we are talking singularly about Airbus' shares then yes bear market. Maybe Mike Ashley would be preferable to the Share holders?