apparently there was absolutely no crime in Southampton in the 1950s until ..... you can guess the rest
Off Topic Politics Thread
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Its the liberals and "right on" lot that love their 1930s ballroom dancing show and wartime WI baking country fair programme.
ifwe leave there is no going back. thats a big reason why we need another referendum, i mentioned it a few posts back.
edit:"It doesn't say it is our chance to voice an opinion and they will decide if it is right or not"
actually this is exactly what it said.
though everyone expected them to implement the decision. main problem being its clear we havent actually made a decision yet, thus many of the leave votes saying this wasn't what we decided while soft brexiteers supporting it etc.
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For what it’s worth, I received the following message from my niece,yesterday. My niece is a barrister, who works in the civil service, so is quite close to what is happening, regarding Brexit.
“Hello uncle B
I’m chuckling away about your posts. Obviously I’m not allowed to post myself - senior civil servants are not able to speak publicly (we know too much) and can’t give their own views, we can only give the government position. But I can’t quite believe the utter mess we are in. It’s a deal, and actually reasonable given the parameters but it will make us poorer. It really is lose-lose. Absolutely insane. No Deal planning will continue because we have to make sure there are plans in place in case it come to that. That will probably become more obvious in the coming weeks. I saw the photo below on a Facebook post. This is what is has come to, for no reason than political gaming.”
“Hello uncle B
I’m chuckling away about your posts. Obviously I’m not allowed to post myself - senior civil servants are not able to speak publicly (we know too much) and can’t give their own views, we can only give the government position. But I can’t quite believe the utter mess we are in. It’s a deal, and actually reasonable given the parameters but it will make us poorer. It really is lose-lose. Absolutely insane. No Deal planning will continue because we have to make sure there are plans in place in case it come to that. That will probably become more obvious in the coming weeks. I saw the photo below on a Facebook post. This is what is has come to, for no reason than political gaming.”
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Meanwhile across the Atlantic, following the defeat of Rep Mimi Rogers, the Republican Party faces almost total wipeout in the State of California.
GoP spokesmen Mike Madrid has declared the death of the Republican Party in California, saying “there is no message. There is no messenger. There is no infrastructure.” He blames the effective political suicide on local GOP politicians for hitching their wagons to the completely unpalatable President Trump.
Any of our US correspondents care to give their views? I’m thinking the English speaking world needs some cause for optimism right now, is this it?
GoP spokesmen Mike Madrid has declared the death of the Republican Party in California, saying “there is no message. There is no messenger. There is no infrastructure.” He blames the effective political suicide on local GOP politicians for hitching their wagons to the completely unpalatable President Trump.
Any of our US correspondents care to give their views? I’m thinking the English speaking world needs some cause for optimism right now, is this it?
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Here's Jo Johnson (B***s's brother): "To those who say that is an affront to democracy given the 2016 result, I ask this: is it more democratic to rely on a three-year-old vote based on what an idealised Brexit might offer, or to have a vote based on what we know it does actually entail?"
Vin
Beddy, if you were out driving, turned right at Beachy Head and realised there was a cliff before you, would you reconsider because things were looking like they might get difficult? You seem to be implying is that political decisions, once made, are irreversible. In what other aspect of life do you use such logic?
Let's get extreme. If the effect of the Leave vote were to be to commence nuclear armageddon on March 29th, you'd say "let's have another vote". So the government would not "have to honour that vote". You're saying it because you still think Leaving makes sense. That's fine, but stop pretending it's some kind of moral argument. You just want what you wished for to happen, regardless of how badly it might turn out.
Vin
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Beddy, which Brexit did you vote for?
Canada?
Norway?
Single Market, no customs Union?
WTO terms?
Canada+?
Customs Union, no Single Market?
Switzerland?
Canada++?
No Deal?
Customs Union and Single Market?
Canada+++?
All of these have been suggested by senior Brexiters. There's a selection in the video below (that you won't watch because it conflicts with your belief that you knew you were voting for this shambles). Which one floated your boat? Which one is the irrevocable and unchangeable "will of the people"?
Vin
Beddy, which Brexit did you vote for?
Canada?
Norway?
Single Market, no customs Union?
WTO terms?
Canada+?
Customs Union, no Single Market?
Switzerland?
Canada++?
No Deal?
Customs Union and Single Market?
Canada+++?
All of these have been suggested by senior Brexiters. There's a selection in the video below (that you won't watch because it conflicts with your belief that you knew you were voting for this shambles). Which one floated your boat? Which one is the irrevocable and unchangeable "will of the people"?
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Vin
You're the one who claimed it, on here. Sorry that you've forgotten your chief argument in favour of going onto WTO tariffs.
Vin
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Well, it would appear that every single Labour constituency is now in favour of having a second vote.
https://www.theguardian.com/politic...abour-seats-back-second-referendum-study-says
Vin
You forgot the bit about flat earth...
The earth is flat
There is a Santa Claus
There is a god
Brexit will be ok.
I actually think 3 of those are more likely than the other
There is a Santa Claus
There is a god
Brexit will be ok.
I actually think 3 of those are more likely than the other
No, that was just pictures stuck to the outside of the metal tube you were in.The earth is definitely not flat, I’ve seen it from a plane
The earth must be flat, that is why I can't swim too far into the channel as I will fall off
Santa does exist, as I see him every year for about 6 weeks on TV and in shops
There is a god as otherwise there would be nothing to fight for in all the wars
There you go, 3 out of 4 exist.
Santa does exist, as I see him every year for about 6 weeks on TV and in shops
There is a god as otherwise there would be nothing to fight for in all the wars
There you go, 3 out of 4 exist.
Morning Vin............Mate I voted for an out vote.....not a potential stay in........... an out and out vote out. My main reasons are personal and are not open for discussions. However.........We have survived for hundreds of years without having to be forced to only trade with a few nations. When we were asked about Joining what was the then common market I voted against then in the 60s.
In the late 40s when a few EU countries formed the original market Britain was asked then if we would consider being part of it. The government of the day declined (I understand) as we were not ready to make such a decision. However as part of an occupying force we had no objections and in fact encouraged it. We did say at the time once we had got our selves in order we would look at what they were offering and maybe join.
I am not clear on when exactly we applied to join the common market as it was then called...... I believe it was around 1952.......A vote was taken by the whole group of nations and everyone agreed....(Except De Gaulle...... I'm not sure if he was president then) The French vetoed it. (That part I'm sure about) So we were not allowed in. I do not know his reasons. Although my understanding was to do with the fee they were asking us to put in to join and the fee we said we would be prepared to pay. (That is a simplified version I agree) The French were quite insulting at the time was also my understanding.
I believe we reapplied 3 years later but were declined again, my understanding was it was the French again. ( You have to also understand the French were the dominating force in the market at the time although Germany was by now catching them up mighty fast.)
As a single Nation The Uk was doing extremely well........we had are ups and downs especially politically and some bad decisions were made (my opinion) but we exceeded expansion if you call it that, faster than the combined E U. Things started to slow in the mid 60s......(baring in mind we were not trading with Europe in this time) We were actually invited to join the common market to help the UK and Europe beat the slow down. The rest is history.
The EU brought in a lot of good things.....but then the European court was formed and it was found they could over rule any of the member nations highest courts judgements. (My second highest reason for wanting out) Why the heck we didn't veto this I'll never know!! Then other things started to creep in ok its a matter of opinion whether you think they benefit the various countries. Some of which I was very sceptical about........ the open borders, is one, the freedom of movement is another, just to mention a couple.
In my mind, we as a country seemed to be being taken over by the European diplomats that were not exactly voted into office. I know we had a veto, and I know we had a say but with so many poorer countries now involved they would have gone along with anything as they were getting more out than they were putting in. You can't blame them.
So the UK's voice in the EU was practically negated by the dominating countries.
The way I look at it is ........My family over generations fought to keep this country independent and gave their lives to keep the UK a free nation just as I suspect did a lot of others on here. You will never change my mind on that!!
If the UK could keep its total independence and go back to the original trade arrangements then maybe I could be persuaded differently.
Over the years since the age of 16 or so I have had so much more dealings within countries of the EU than any of you realise...and why should you.
I am not trying to convince anyone that my view is the correct one its just how I feel. Just as a lot on here have an opposite view........In reality who knows who is right or wrong?
I firmly believe we as a nation can do as well if not better than the bullies of the EU (I'm sorry that is how I see them) yes it will take a bit of time but you should (in my opinion) have more faith in our own countries ability.
I apologise to anyone who finds any of my above comments offensive....... I have just tried (a bit long winded I accept) to explain how I feel. I am not trying to persuade anyone to change their mind or not to have an opposing view. What ever happens in regards to this whole debacle I will go along with like you all.
You’re living in Cloud Chico Land
The country and politicians are all totally fragmented and there is no mass movement to FOR any option
The Poll Tax was a sovereign law that people could oppose and parliament could change this is a democratic concept that is held up as sacrosanct even though everyone disagrees on what it really meant because it was so facile
It’s like trying to wrestle with a four dimensional jelly monster (best I can come up with hopefully you get what I mean)
A well reasoned argument Beddy, which I won’t attempt to tackle piece by piece, but just on your first point, we don’t trade only with the EU, that’s just absurd. The strongest countries in the world, ranked by economy, are of course the USA, China, and Japan. Some of the individual nations in the EU have strong economies, notably Germany, the UK, and France, who rank just behind the top 3. Collectively, though, the EU has the 2nd strongest in the world, stronger than China and just behind the US. What this means is that all the other nations in the world find it very attractive to trade with the EU, and because of our collective strength, the tariffs are beneficial to the EU nations.
The UK currently doesn’t have any trade deals with the rest of the world, as all our trade is done through the EU. The politicians who tell you that making a trade deal with other nations is easy, with tariffs as low as those we have via the EU, are lying.
Oh, and by the way, the reason we didn’t join the original Common Market back when it was originally formed was because we were still receiving aid from America under the Marshall Plan, and we didn’t want to jeopardise that. Perhaps we would have had a better relationship with the rest of our European neighbours if we had joined with them from the start. I imagine leaving the EU, whether it’s via the Draft Agreement, or, heaven forbid, via a Hard Brexit, will put us in a very bad odour with our former partners which we will never shake off.
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