His Nana's from Ull
- Thread starter NaNaNa
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You are correct Richard it was the Sheffield Mafia who were in charge, I got that one mixed up. I'm not rubbishing Joyce at all and he pulled off a minor miracle during The Great Escape season. But his name crops us every now and then as a possible candidate for the managers job at City.
He's not interested.
That is my point.
As possibly the only person who's spoken to him on this list in the past six months, I'd dispute that. I don't know what happened when he was due to take the job when Nigel Pearson left. Maybe he just didn't fancy working for the Allams. I didn't discuss that with him. But he did tell me that he'd love to work at Hull CIty again one day as he has just fond feelings for the club. Irrespective of that, as good a bloke as he is, and as great a figure as he is in our history, I'd want someone with more recent (and successful) English football league experience should we replace Nigel.
I agree with your last sentence 100%.
I heard similar sentiments expressed by Steve Bruce recently when someone spoke to him in the Caribbean. Said he had 'unfinished business at Hull'
For the gamblers out there, I'm tipping Mr Bruce to be the next manager at WBA.
Twice celebrated, the first time was quite funny, second time made him a Dolan lackey ****, at the time that is.
The views expressed in my posts are not necessarily mine.
I like WJ, although as PhilWSU and Twowrights recall, there was a time he seemed to side with ‘the enemy’/ his manager and employer (I suppose).
In relation to the 1998/99 season. We were cut adrift and seemingly ****ed.
Joyce did well no doubt, but at the time, it has to be also noted Joyce was effectively bankrolled by the Hincliffe/Buchanan regime to the tune that a City manager hadn’t been since Stan T. He bought in (from memory): Alcide (circa 60k), Brabin (circa 60k), Whitney, Whittle (40k), Gareth Williams, Duane Darby (back on loan) and probably a few other high fees/wages I forget.
Importantly though, it has to be noted that even though he was given good funds to make the job easier, Joyce spent well and the likes of JW and GB were ideal for our predicament.
Some may undervalue that key spend and might see those fees as pitiful, but at the time, to us, they were fees (especially not just one-offs on one player too) that we hadn’t seen for around a decade and for a bottom of the 4th division club – were fees to be reckoned with.
In relation to the 1998/99 season. We were cut adrift and seemingly ****ed.
Joyce did well no doubt, but at the time, it has to be also noted Joyce was effectively bankrolled by the Hincliffe/Buchanan regime to the tune that a City manager hadn’t been since Stan T. He bought in (from memory): Alcide (circa 60k), Brabin (circa 60k), Whitney, Whittle (40k), Gareth Williams, Duane Darby (back on loan) and probably a few other high fees/wages I forget.
Importantly though, it has to be noted that even though he was given good funds to make the job easier, Joyce spent well and the likes of JW and GB were ideal for our predicament.
Some may undervalue that key spend and might see those fees as pitiful, but at the time, to us, they were fees (especially not just one-offs on one player too) that we hadn’t seen for around a decade and for a bottom of the 4th division club – were fees to be reckoned with.
Taking a club in terminal decline that had had very, very little spent on it for six years, six points adrift at the bottom of the table, to safety is an outstanding feat, irrespective of the spend. And yes, many clubs at the bottom couldn't spend as much as we did within that short space of time, but they had squads that had seen a number of cash transfers over the preceding few seasons. And we still went to the likes of big-spending Brentford (who'd just signed Hermann Hreidarsson for 750k) and won. Joyce got great things out of two players all-but dismissed by Hateley - Greaves and Edwards – and we didn't spend any money on Whitney - he came along with Jason Perry in exchange for Richard Peacock. We also recouped everything (and then some) almost immediately through the Andy Oakes sale, for what it's worth.
It is worth pointing out that by that point – once the squad was made up solely of Dolan/Fish era players – many of the players would have shared Warren's sentiment, including fan favourites such as Dean Windass and Alan Fettis. I'm pretty confident now that there was a widespread feeling within the playing camp (not among all players necessarily, but among a bulk of them) that Dolan and Fish were doing the best they could under trying circumstances and didn't deserve the personal abuse they were getting. Fish in particular seems very well liked by almost all on a personal level. Dolan and Fish did some really **** things in my opinion that warranted criticism, and Dolan was just plain inept, but the real villain of the piece was Chris Needler.
I agree with most of what you’ve written there, apart from, crucially perhaps: ‘irrespective of the spend’.
As with football now, as was then, the ‘spend’ is crucial as is its timing.
Perhaps you’ve done a deeper study of expenditure in that division over that decade and are well placed to assess, but from what I recall, it was the same topsy turvy division as usual where a whole number of clubs are on the brink/breadline/decline.
In my opinion, Joyce did very well, but was also set against a mini league of poor clubs who did not, as far as I remember, have the funds we had to strengthen when we did.
Again, subject to my memory, the revival started a month or so after Joyce took over (after the spend). We beat Rotherham with Brabin with a goal from Bonner (another new, albeit short lived due to injury in that game, signing). We beat Brenford, who were the big spenders, but we also beat them after we’d spent (Alcide got at least 1 that day).
I’m not trying to sound revisionist either: I felt the same then, was grateful and as stated Joyce bought perfectly for the situation – not all managers do.
It also must be said, that that season provided the first real enjoyment since 94/95 (Dolan’s final Play Off push) so, I’ll always value WJ appropriately.
I liked big Col.
He didn't score that many, but his presence unsettled defences, brought others into play, held it up well and his few goals were memorable - that piledriver away at Cardiff springs to mind (also the sliding goal away at Griffin P).
He used to get a fair bit of undue abuse in my book, as well as racist abuse from City fans.
I think, as referenced above, we recouped on him anyway as York bought him for around the same fee we initially forked out.
The point I was trying to make was: Joyce spent, yes, but that was money spent on the poorest squad in the league, that had existed on a hand-to-mouth existence for a number of seasons. We were way behind every other squad in the division and the table reflected that. I saw the signings as a leveller as opposed to giving us an undue advantage. Of the bottom teams, the likes of Carlisle and Scarborough had been considered upwardly mobile in the relatively recent past (Carlisle had been promoted two seasons previous, Scarborough in the play-offs the season before) and still had numerous players within their respective squads from those times. Joyce took a little while to get going - we beat Carlisle 1-0 at BP with a Craig Dudley goal, but that proved to be a false dawn - but so what? I've interviewed several players from that time and they all tend to say the same thing: the squad was in dreadful shape, training under Hateley had been a joke so fitness levels were poor, Warren made an instant impact but it took a while for those efforts to be seen on the pitch, which is as much a reflection on how poor things were before hand as anything else. All are united on the importance of the Brabin signing, and the work Joyce put into that - remember he initially chose to go to Lincoln over us a month or so prior to signing - was considerable. I get what you're saying, but I don't think it really diminishes Warren's achievements nor his status as the most important manager in our history.
Yeah I thought he was a half decent player for where we were at the time, just meant I think Joyce still did great with a fairly poor squad, despite the signings.
I saw the list of creditors when the Sheffield Mafia departed and I would doubt if they spent one penny piece of their own money. The cash they did spend was, as Richard rightly, says mostly from the sale of Oakley. They even owed money to the local Chinese takeaway where they lived in Sheffield.