Match Day Thread Norwich V Wigan Athletic

[JM Fan]

So – where have all those ‘harbingers of doom’ at the sale of JM *2 gone, predicting that we’d fail to score many goals this season???
Having watched the game V Koo Pee Aaargh last Saturday and then been at CR yesterday, we appear to be a much more complete team this season, as we’re not relying for our creativity on only coming from one player and so the ball is getting forward much faster. Stieperman is a totally different player compared to last season and MB (and others) made him MotM. A couple of times, Puuki was having to hold the ball up, waiting for a team mate to get in the box and I’m sure that is something DF and the coaching staff will be working on in the coming weeks.
I know some will say we only had ‘x’’ number of shots on target, but there were several occasions when a Wigan player got a VERY fortuitous block in.

I’m not getting too carried away, but I’m beginning to ‘taste’ the beer that FML will owe me SHOULD we finish in the top 10!!!
Edit - IF FML wins the bet, then I'll happily buy him his 2 pints!!

 

[RiverEndRick]

Well said, JMF, especially about being "a much more complete team this season". Many of the bits were there last season, but not always fitting together into a coherent whole. Steipermann was played everywhere except his favourite position - behind the striker as part AM, part second striker (he began his career as a striker). He gives a different focal pivot to the attack, providing Leitner and Tettey with a valuable outlet, while also able to use his height and body strength to good effect.

Last year's new players are well settled now and the new ones this year are are already settled or settling quickly into a coherent team strategy which is difficult for opposing defences to deal with. It's all still developing though, especially when Hernandez, Hanley, McLean and Marshall are back again and able to provide additional options. Exciting times!

 

[goldeneadie]

If you look at the playeersfrom last Saturday who were not in the starting11 i, you could make a very competent team from those. The injured four,, Vrancic, Passlack, Godfrey, Thompson, Rhodes, Srbeny, Tyrbull and a goalkeeper, ok, that's 12 players who could/have do/done a job in the first team. Riches indeed compared to the last few seasons, when Turner would be next in line defensively..

 

[General Melchett]

So – where have all those ‘harbingers of doom’ at the sale of JM *2 gone, predicting that we’d fail to score many goals this season???
Having watched the game V Koo Pee Aaargh last Saturday and then been at CR yesterday, we appear to be a much more complete team this season, as we’re not relying for our creativity on only coming from one player and so the ball is getting forward much faster. Stieperman is a totally different player compared to last season and MB (and others) made him MotM. A couple of times, Puuki was having to hold the ball up, waiting for a team mate to get in the box and I’m sure that is something DF and the coaching staff will be working on in the coming weeks.
I know some will say we only had ‘x’’ number of shots on target, but there were several occasions when a Wigan player got a VERY fortuitous block in.

I’m not getting too carried away, but I’m beginning to ‘taste’ the beer that FML will owe me SHOULD we finish in the top 10!!!
Edit - IF FML wins the bet, then I'll happily buy him his 2 pints!!

I'm still here. I understand your assertion that we maybe a more complete team now c.f. any from last season, but it's still early days and we don't know that much yet. Last season we thought we had it cracked going 8 games unbeaten built on miserly defending and 1 goal wins. This feels familiar. This season we are:
5th having scored 14 goals in 10 matches with 17 points.
last season after 10 we were:
10th having scored 9 goals in 10 matches with 15pts. We then went on to take 7 points from the next 3 games before collapsing but peaking at a dizzying 6th.
So there are more goals but it's not like we're free scoring, once again it is the defence that is our foundation for results, but will it be as brittle this time around?
We are joint 7th for goals scored so actually not bad sort of upper mid-table form but only 11 sides have conceded more, very mid-table sort of form. So we are better, but it remains to be seen how much better or if it can be sustained.
We have Derby and Forest away with Stoke at home, will we get 5 or more to match and beat last seasons tally at that point? Maybe, but more importantly will be avoiding any sort of similar slump. Some have observed that a couple of the youngsters looked jaded, might we be on the cusp of a slump? I bloomin well hope not, but DF needs to manage his squad better this time around to avoid one.

Bah!

 

[JM Fan]

An excellent post as usual General
Where have the remainder of the ‘harbingers of doom’ gone??

The Archant ‘hacks’ all commented re the below par performances of our youngsters on Saturday and felt that was in part as a result of the treatment being dished out by several of the Wigan players with no protection from the numpty in black.
We’re some considerable from being the ‘finished article’, but IMO, when we have fewer inhabitants of ‘sick bay’, then DF will have more troops at his disposal and so be less reliant on the youff.

 

[RiverEndRick]

IMO the struggle last season was more to do with Jerome and Oliveira's fall off in goal scoring after an early cluster of goals. While that could happen again with Pukki, Rhodes and Srbeny, I think it's unlikely. The coming games (Derby and Forest away with Stoke at home) will certainly be a further test, but if we play the way we have over the last 7 matches, 5 points or more (or 7 or more if you include Villa at home to even out the home/away ratio) should be feasible, especially with the four injured players returning. I thought we'd be hurt by their absence but we haven't been. The early defensive mistakes have been dealt with and, while mistakes will still happen, we look solid without compromising the attack to do so.

Our advantage now is that we no longer have to 'make up points' to be in the top 6. We do need to be consistent over the whole season though and that will be the real test. We have the squad to do so though, so I'm staying optimistic. We also have four games against Hull, Rotherham, Bolton and Blackburn to finish this half of the season and judge then what our chances could be for the season as a whole.

 

[DUNCAN DONUTS]

All of the goals against Boro QPR and Wigan were fortunate to say the least .
Big deflection for Boro a chested fluke at QPR and a pen.

The win against Preston was lucky with 0 shots for the first hour and a Worldy from Tettey .

You can also argue that we were unlucky against West Brom Leeds and Sheffield United with goalkeeper **** ups.

We are not blowing away teams by playing slick attacking football by 2 or 3 goals we are scraping 1 zeros with sound defensive displays.

This is very similar to last year's run and I hope we can extend it but we are far from the finished article.

 

[RiverEndRick]

All of the goals against Boro QPR and Wigan were fortunate to say the least .
Big deflection for Boro a chested fluke at QPR and a pen.

The win against Preston was lucky with 0 shots for the first hour and a Worldy from Tettey .

You can also argue that we were unlucky against West Brom Leeds and Sheffield United with goalkeeper **** ups.

We are not blowing away teams by playing slick attacking football by 2 or 3 goals we are scraping 1 zeros with sound defensive displays.

This is very similar to last year's run and I hope we can extend it but we are far from the finished article.

While luck is part of the game, it happens both ways. Ipswich scored against us with a deflected goal, for example. Though we didn't play that well against Preston, Tettey's strike was no fluke and we did deserve to win 2-0. I also don't think the chested goal was a fluke. Pukki adjusted to the deflection and used his chest to score. Even Wigan's manager said we should have had a penalty in the first half. Wigan didn't even manage a shot on target. The fact is that we've outplayed the opposition over the past 7 matches and deserved the results we got. This in spite of having 4 key players missing. Put a negative spin on that if you want, but I certainly won't.

 

[DUNCAN DONUTS]

While luck is part of the game, it happens both ways. Ipswich scored against us with a deflected goal, for example. Though we didn't play that well against Preston, Tettey's strike was no fluke and we did deserve to win 2-0. I also don't think the chested goal was a fluke. Pukki adjusted to the deflection and used his chest to score. Even Wigan's manager said we should have had a penalty in the first half. Wigan didn't even manage a shot on target. The fact is that we've outplayed the opposition over the past 7 matches and deserved deserved the results we got. This in spite of having 4 key players missing. Put a negative spin on that if you want, but I certainly won't.

I have been to 3 of those games and seen one on telly Rick, I'm not putting a negative spin on the results I'm simply stating that we haven't won any games comfortably other than Cardiff away.

You know when your side is playing well and you win 2 or 3 nil at a canter .

I don't think we have comfortably won any games in the league under Farke , almost all of the wins were by a single goal and most were 1-0 wins.

The point I'm making is we could have just as easily lost or drawn all of those NARROW victories.

I will be very surprised if we carry on for most of the season winning 1-0 & it is very reminiscent of our 8 game unbeaten run last season.

I am happy with how things are ticking over but I am very aware that we were lucky to win all of those games .

If nothing but 100 % praise is in your eyes is negative then as a realist I am negative.

I call it how I see it and we were lucky during this run , hard working but fortunate.

 

[RiverEndRick]

I can see your point about luck playing a part, DD, and you did say that we were 'unlucky' to lose against West Brom and Sheffield United, but to say we were lucky in every game we won is unfair to the players who grafted so hard for those wins. The majority of Championship wins are by a single goal. Teams score and then work to 'manage' a win from that. Earlier in the season people were saying we lacked clean sheets, away wins and the ability to grind out 1-0 wins. I'd love it if we were to win by two or more goals but right now I'll take an unbeaten run of 7 games with good performances and good results.

 

[JM Fan]

Your last sentence says it all DD.
When we played Preston, they had a shot cannon back off the bar when it was still 0-0. Had that gone in .............

 

[canary-dave]

I can see your point about luck playing a part, DD, and you did say that we were 'unlucky' to lose against West Brom and Sheffield United, but to say we were lucky in every game we won is unfair to the players who grafted so hard for those wins. The majority of Championship wins are by a single goal. Teams score and then work to 'manage' a win from that. Earlier in the season people were saying we lacked clean sheets, away wins and the ability to grind out 1-0 wins. I'd love it if we were to win by two or more goals but right now I'll take an unbeaten run of 7 games with good performances and good results.

Remember George Graham's Arsenal winning the top division with mainly 1-0 wins. Were they lucky too!?

 

[DUNCAN DONUTS]

Remember George Graham's Arsenal winning the top division with mainly 1-0 wins. Were they lucky too!?

Just had a look and if you are referring to the 86 87 season where they won the league Arsenal won 1-0 twice against Man U and Everton.

Most of their wins were by at least 2 goals .

Since Farke has been in charge how many games have we won by 2 or more goals in the league ?
1 this season Preston.
Last season we only won by 2 goals or more 3 times beating Villa Sheffield Wednesday and QPR in the league.

That means that we were hanging on for the whistle in the other 12 wins winning by a single goal.


So just 3 comfortable wins from 46 games last season.

 

[canary-dave]

Just had a look and if you are referring to the 86 87 season where they won the league Arsenal won 1-0 twice against Man U and Everton.

Most of their wins were by at least 2 goals .

Since Farke has been in charge how many games have we won by 2 or more goals in the league ?
1 this season Preston.
Last season we only won by 2 goals or more 3 times beating Villa Sheffield Wednesday and QPR in the league.

That means that we were hanging on for the whistle in the other 12 wins winning by a single goal.


So just 3 comfortable wins from 46 games last season.

I still think you're being unduly harsh but that's your opinion, Rick and I don't share your pessimism but this is a forum so fair play.

 

[DUNCAN DONUTS]

I still think you're being unduly harsh but that's your opinion, Rick and I don't share your pessimism but this is a forum so fair play.

It's not pessimism Dave , we have only won comfortably 4 times in the last 2 seasons.

In All of the games I have been at we have been biting our nails and squeaking our bums up to the final whistle.

It would be nice to be 2 up in the first half and he able to make changes and shut out games .

Scoring 1 and hanging on for dear life is great when it happens but it didn't last long 17 -18 & logic would suggest it won't work this season over the duration.

We need to blast someone 2 ,3 or 4-0 and lay down a marker.

 

[goldeneadie]

Your last sentence says it all DD.
When we played Preston, they had a shot cannon back off the bar when it was still 0-0. Had that gone in .............

We haven't hit the bar or post this season JM? That is not a true case of luck, more not so good play by the footballer concerned.

 

[Forgot_My_Lines]

Wow! Acceptance of different views suddenly!

Wish this happened when I use to post!

Amazing developments.

 

[JM Fan]

It's not pessimism Dave , we have only won comfortably 4 times in the last 2 seasons.
Scoring 1 and hanging on for dear life is great when it happens but it didn't last long 17 -18 & logic would suggest it won't work this season over the duration.

We need to blast someone 2 ,3 or 4-0 and lay down a marker.

Really good post DD and I'm sure that any day soon, it will all 'fall into place for us and we will have a comfortable win.
As FML says, it's great to see that posters are allowed to have their say without another poster saying they're wrong etc.
Let's keep it that way - PLEASE!!!!

 

[RiverEndRick]

I think the discussion has been an interesting one without anybody saying the other is wrong. I did say: "I'd love it if we were to win by two or more goals but right now I'll take an unbeaten run of 7 games with good performances and good results." We've now had 10 league games with 5 wins, 2 draws and 3 losses. One win was comfortable (2-0) and one loss was 'uncomfortable' (0-3). The rest were settled by one goal or draws. We've also had 3 cup wins, two comfortable and one not. I personally don't see the point of going back to last season, as the players involved were different. More 'comfortable' wins would also have the advantage of improving our goal difference, which is only +1 at the moment.

 

[DUNCAN DONUTS]

I think the discussion has been an interesting one without anybody saying the other is wrong. I did say: "I'd love it if we were to win by two or more goals but right now I'll take an unbeaten run of 7 games with good performances and good results." We've now had 10 league games with 5 wins, 2 draws and 3 losses. One win was comfortable (2-0) and one loss was 'uncomfortable' (0-3). The rest were settled by one goal or draws. We've also had 3 cup wins, two comfortable and one not. I personally don't see the point of going back to last season, as the players involved were different. More 'comfortable' wins would also have the advantage of improving our goal difference, which is only +1 at the moment.

The reason last season is relevant is because it's a continuation of the same head coach and an almost carbon copy of our run from 9th September to 28th October spanning 8 games.
After the humiliating 4-0 loss against Millwall.

1-0 win against Bimingham
0-0 Burton
0-1 win at Sheffield U
0-0 Bristol city
0-1 win at Middlesbrough
1-2 away at Reading
1-1 with Hull
1-0 Against Ipswich on the 22nd October.

All results decided by a single goal .

Then we went to **** and didn't win again until Boxing day December 26th a 2-0 win against Birmingham.

We never really recovered from that run and then picked up a few more wins with a similar pattern of 0-0 1-0 and 2-1 broken up with a 4-3 loss to Hull.
A 3-2 win against Reading
4-1 loss to QPR
3-1 win at Villa
Finishing off with a crushing 5-1 loss at Sheffield Wednesday.

This is a very different side to last season but our good performances are mirroring those of last season with Pukki carrying the side like Maddisson did with the single goals wins.

I can see a steady improvement and hoping for another month of good results.