Off Topic UK / EU Future

[Deleted.......]

You have never understood the difference between a forecast and a direct lie as you demonstrate yet again so I see no point in explaining again.
The alignment of standards is not the issue. The issue is that for a truly "common" market there must be the freedom of movement of capital and people and integrated laws. Brexiters simply fail to acknowledge that.
As for punishment you can view it like that if you wish to distort reality. If someone leaves a club and will not pay the membership fees then they are outside the club and not in it. That is what you voted for. Why do you think the UK can have the benefits of the EU and not be a fee paying member? If France had quit the EU would you have said - let them have all the bits they want, ditch the bits they don't and pay no fees? Of course not.

Totally agree. And you could add that were the shoe on the other foot we'd be the first in the queue to pick over the carcass. I genuinely don't understand why anyone expected the Member States to behave any differently.

 

[Leo]

You would have thought by now that instead of wasting so much time they would be trying to work up an acceptable position for all 27 countries to agree to. You might find that individual countries have specific issues that will be impacted on by the UK leaving, but they all know that they will be better off in a strong Union than gazing in from the outside.

You would also think the EU would be trying to give the UK some clue as to where they will budge from their core position - or tell us they will not.
I say again - it takes two to tango and the UK being asked to guess what the EU will or will not accept is daft. Everyone knows the UK would like all the benefits of the EU with none of its prices. That is no secret - but to ask the UK to guess which bits the EU will comromise on is futile.
The EU have made no moves to help create a deal - hiding behind Barnier - fair enough until there is no deal. That will be equally the fault of both the UK and EU. It annoys me to see people pointing all the blame on the UK.

 

[Leo]

Totally agree. And you could add that were the shoe on the other foot we'd be the first in the queue to pick over the carcass. I genuinely don't understand why anyone expected the Member States to behave any differently.

No. Why should they? The UK has been a bad member since it joined and I suspect most are fed up with us and glad to see us go.
It still does not mean that the EU should not try to find the deal which is in their interest - unless they really beleive no deal is good for them.

 

[Leo]

Posted twice in error

 

[oldfrenchhorn]

You would also think the EU would be trying to give the UK some clue as to where they will budge from their core position - or tell us they will not.
I say again - it takes two to tango and the UK being asked to guess what the EU will or will not accept is daft. Everyone knows the UK would like all the benefits of the EU with none of its prices. That is no secret - but to ask the UK to guess which bits the EU will comromise on is futile.
The EU have made no moves to help create a deal - hiding behind Barnier - fair enough until there is no deal. That will be equally the fault of both the UK and EU. It annoys me to see people pointing all the blame on the UK.

There has been quite a lot of talk, how informed I cannot say, about how the EU are trying to find a form of words about N.Ireland that will be acceptable to the PM, if not her hard core of leavers. As I suggested yesterday it is heading towards a giant verbal fudge, with little or no substance. The work to find a relationship would continue through a transition period, to be followed by more work to be done, followed by more work to be done....... This suits May of course as she has an impressive record of can kicking, and she is helped by the opposition being in total chaos.

 

[superhorns]

You have never understood the difference between a forecast and a direct lie as you demonstrate yet again so I see no point in explaining again.
The alignment of standards is not the issue. The issue is that for a truly "common" market there must be the freedom of movement of capital and people and integrated laws. Brexiters simply fail to acknowledge that.
As for punishment you can view it like that if you wish to distort reality. If someone leaves a club and will not pay the membership fees then they are outside the club and not in it. That is what you voted for. Why do you think the UK can have the benefits of the EU and not be a fee paying member? If France had quit the EU would you have said - let them have all the bits they want, ditch the bits they don't and pay no fees? Of course not.

I'm off to a wedding weekend in Northants, will reply next week.

 

[Deleted.......]

No. Why should they? The UK has been a bad member since it joined and I suspect most are fed up with us and glad to see us go.
It still does not mean that the EU should not try to find the deal which is in their interest - unless they really beleive no deal is good for them.

From my experience it's a bit more mixed than that. We were seen as an honest broker in a few sectors and a good number of States with less votes than us liked the fact we would side with them against Germany and/or France on numerous occasions. They also liked our sense of pragmatism.

Obviously this wouldn't have been the same across the board and I tend to agree that in many ways we were not popular but its more nuanced. It always is though isn't it?!

 

[Leo]

From my experience it's a bit more mixed than that. We were seen as an honest broker in a few sectors and a good number of States with less votes than us liked the fact we would side with them against Germany and/or France on numerous occasions. They also liked our sense of pragmatism.

Obviously this wouldn't have been the same across the board and I tend to agree that in many ways we were not popular but its more nuanced. It always is though isn't it?!

Good points, well made. Totally agree.

 

[superhorns]

Have a great weekend my little band of remainers, thinking of GT today,

hopefully good game at the VIC

 

[Deleted.......]

Have a great weekend my little band of remainers, thinking of GT today,

hopefully good game at the VIC

It'll be a relief if none of our players melt... Very pleased we're in the Upper GT today - at least there's a small bit of shelter!

 

[superhorns]

You have never understood the difference between a forecast and a direct lie as you demonstrate yet again so I see no point in explaining again.
The alignment of standards is not the issue. The issue is that for a truly "common" market there must be the freedom of movement of capital and people and integrated laws. Brexiters simply fail to acknowledge that.
As for punishment you can view it like that if you wish to distort reality. If someone leaves a club and will not pay the membership fees then they are outside the club and not in it. That is what you voted for. Why do you think the UK can have the benefits of the EU and not be a fee paying member? If France had quit the EU would you have said - let them have all the bits they want, ditch the bits they don't and pay no fees? Of course not.

I'm sure those that those who originally voted for a 'common market' did not envisage the UK having to accept uncontrolled immigration from the EU whatever the consequence. I'm quite happy to call the ransom a ransom, the Lords All Party Committee on Brexit found we legally had nothing to pay. They did however conclude the bleeding obvious that a large contribution would, or should, secure a free trade deal.
The UK is simply requesting a free trade deal that is beneficial to both the UK and the rest of the EU. The EU's insistence for giving the UK a public punishment beating has so far prevented much progress.

 

[oldfrenchhorn]

I'm sure those that those who originally voted for a 'common market' did not envisage the UK having to accept uncontrolled immigration from the EU whatever the consequence. I'm quite happy to call the ransom a ransom, the Lords All Party Committee on Brexit found we legally had nothing to pay. They did however conclude the bleeding obvious that a large contribution would, or should, secure a free trade deal.
The UK is simply requesting a free trade deal that is beneficial to both the UK and the rest of the EU. The EU's insistence for giving the UK a public punishment beating has so far prevented much progress.

There is little point in repeating your uncontrolled immigration mantra when it has been pointed out time and time again that the UK government didn't wish to control it using the measures they had available to them. You along with so many of your ilk still do grasp that there are no talks on free trade until a deal has been agreed for the orderly withdrawal of the UK .
According to the disgraced DR. Fox this deal will be "the easiest in human history ". Now he is saying there maybe no deal. Is he just confused about what he actually does believe, or is he just a person out to line his own pockets?

 

[superhorns]

There is little point in repeating your uncontrolled immigration mantra when it has been pointed out time and time again that the UK government didn't wish to control it using the measures they had available to them. You along with so many of your ilk still do grasp that there are no talks on free trade until a deal has been agreed for the orderly withdrawal of the UK .
According to the disgraced DR. Fox this deal will be "the easiest in human history ". Now he is saying there maybe no deal. Is he just confused about what he actually does believe, or is he just a person out to line his own pockets?

No, Fox has seen, like most sensible people, that the EU are not serious about concluding a deal. He has made great progress lining up future deals. With the ongoing intransigence from the EU it is quite appropriate to consider the likelihood of a no deal scenario. Politicians like Fox can earn much more in the commercial world than being a minister. After his gallant efforts he will be well sought after post government.

 

[oldfrenchhorn]

No, Fox has seen, like most sensible people, that the EU are not serious about concluding a deal. He has made great progress lining up future deals. With the ongoing intransigence from the EU it is quite appropriate to consider the likelihood of a no deal scenario. Politicians like Fox can earn much more in the commercial world than being a minister. After his gallant efforts he will be well sought after post government.

What are these deals he is lining up, as he doesn't seem to have made any progress at all. 40 will all be ready to sign on the 1st April next year he has said. What has he told you that he is keeping from everyone else?

 

[colognehornet]

I'm sure those that those who originally voted for a 'common market' did not envisage the UK having to accept uncontrolled immigration from the EU whatever the consequence. I'm quite happy to call the ransom a ransom, the Lords All Party Committee on Brexit found we legally had nothing to pay. They did however conclude the bleeding obvious that a large contribution would, or should, secure a free trade deal.
The UK is simply requesting a free trade deal that is beneficial to both the UK and the rest of the EU. The EU's insistence for giving the UK a public punishment beating has so far prevented much progress.

Your argument about 'uncontrolled immigration' is getting weaker by the day SH. Last year 220,000 EU. citizens relocated to the UK and 130,000 left - leaving a net inflow of only 90,000 (the number leaving is the highest up to now). With non EU. immigration the figures were 285,000 coming and 80,000 leaving ie. a net inflow of 205,000. Britain is the only EU. country which has such a high percentage of non EU. immigration - implying that this is where the problem lies and not with the EU. The other variable is that it is very much easier to check on known criminal records for EU. migrants than for non EU. ones. We have already seen that India had, as a provision of a trade deal, that free movement of her citizens would be possible. It appears logical to think that countries are not going to sign trade deals unless their citizens are also welcome - the Indian example has made that clear. So after Brexit we can assume that the EU. migration will go down but non EU. migration will rise - good luck with any Chinese deals

 

[superhorns]

What are these deals he is lining up, as he doesn't seem to have made any progress at all. 40 will all be ready to sign on the 1st April next year he has said. What has he told you that he is keeping from everyone else?

Do you not keep up with the news? Only last week the Japanese announced their intention to do a free trade deal with the UK a.s.a.p. One thing is certain it will take a fraction of the time as dealing with the longwinded EU that invariably cannot fashion a deal that suits every member state.

 

[superhorns]

Your argument about 'uncontrolled immigration' is getting weaker by the day SH. Last year 220,000 EU. citizens relocated to the UK and 130,000 left - leaving a net inflow of only 90,000 (the number leaving is the highest up to now). With non EU. immigration the figures were 285,000 coming and 80,000 leaving ie. a net inflow of 205,000. Britain is the only EU. country which has such a high percentage of non EU. immigration - implying that this is where the problem lies and not with the EU. The other variable is that it is very much easier to check on known criminal records for EU. migrants than for non EU. ones. We have already seen that India had, as a provision of a trade deal, that free movement of her citizens would be possible. It appears logical to think that countries are not going to sign trade deals unless their citizens are also welcome - the Indian example has made that clear. So after Brexit we can assume that the EU. migration will go down but non EU. migration will rise - good luck with any Chinese deals

I'm quite happy to let the UK government decide the quantity of migrants allowed in, and the qualifying criteria to suit the UK's needs. Something most countries take for granted.

 

[oldfrenchhorn]

Do you not keep up with the news? Only last week the Japanese announced their intention to do a free trade deal with the UK a.s.a.p. One thing is certain it will take a fraction of the time as dealing with the longwinded EU that invariably cannot fashion a deal that suits every member state.

What I did notice was that the EU and Japan have just signed an all inclusive trade deal. Because of the terms, the UK will have to meet the same terms, or not get a deal. So the UK will still be having to follow what the EU is doing, and the Japanese have said that they will not be talking to the UK until after they depart the EU. So the a.s.a.p is not a deal lined up for the 1st April is it.

 

[colognehornet]

I'm quite happy to let the UK government decide the quantity of migrants allowed in, and the qualifying criteria to suit the UK's needs. Something most countries take for granted.

If you expect to live in a globalized World where you have access to the products of over 70 countries in your average supermarket, and where you are able to transfer your money anywhere in the World then you must also expect that the same mobility applies to people. No country is going to go into special trading arrangements if your attitude to them is 'we want your money but not you'.

 

[superhorns]

What I did notice was that the EU and Japan have just signed an all inclusive trade deal. Because of the terms, the UK will have to meet the same terms, or not get a deal. So the UK will still be having to follow what the EU is doing, and the Japanese have said that they will not be talking to the UK until after they depart the EU. So the a.s.a.p is not a deal lined up for the 1st April is it.

The UK and Japan will decide on the terms of a free trade deal to their mutual benefit. It will likely be based on the EU deal at first then tweaked to improve it. Like with many countries much work can be done prior to the UK leaving but of course trade currently continues with a host of EU countries without a formal free trade deal. Nobody is expecting deals to be signed on the 1st April, so what.